Anderson

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Cutch said:
He's turning into a massive player for us. He really makes us tick. We don't have the same drive from midfield when he's not playing, and can look a lot slower and ponderous.
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Which makes me wonder whether we got enough depth in CM.
 
The fact we played 451 was a bigger influence on our conservative approach than the absence of Anderson. That and the fact half our team have barely played all season.

That said, he's been fantastic. Stands to reason that someone who's been in such great form will be missed.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The fact we played 451 was a bigger influence on our conservative approach than the absence of Anderson. That and the fact half our team have barely played all season.

That said, he's been fantastic. Stands to reason that someone who's been in such great form will be missed.
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Given the vast attacking talent at our disposal, is there any need to be conservative away from home against a team of Benfica's ability (with all due respect to Benfica)?

The same question goes to you as well Chief.
 
Devil_forever said:
Given the vast attacking talent at our disposal, is there any need to be conservative away from home against a team of Benfica's ability (with all due respect to Benfica)?

The same question goes to you as well Chief.
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Because the exact same strategy has given us the best CL away record in Europe over the last few years?

Because we needed to rest some of our most potent attacking players ahead of Chelsea at the weekend?

Because Benfica have a very good home record in this competion?

Because we needed to give games to players who lacked the match sharpness to be really fluent going forwards?

All of the above?
 
Devil_forever said:
Given the vast attacking talent at our disposal, is there any need to be conservative away from home against a team of Benfica's ability (with all due respect to Benfica)?

The same question goes to you as well Chief.
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My answer would be no but in the grand scheme of things its more important to beat Chelsea than Benfica so there was a logic to ensuring he'd not be injured especially with Clevs out. We saw last night that when we play a centre midfield consisting of two water carriers it isn't slick, pacey or mobile. Anderson has been key to improvement this season and with Cleverley out he'll be even more so. If we lose him it'll all be on Giggsy to provide the creative spark in midfield and thats not really a burden a 37 year old should have to shoulder. We played it safe and sacrifed 3 pts in Portugal for a better chance at 3 pts against Chelski. I'll settle for that if Nani, Ando, the Youngster and whoever else rip the renties a new one on Sunday (as annoying as it was to see us snore our way to a draw last night...)
 
I just hope the midfield doesn't become over reliant on him this year, which was always likely if we didn't sign someone.
 
Slightly worried about his return on Sunday. The last few seasons, where he has showed his potential, has usually been during a good spell in the team's lineup. But when he has been rested and returned, he looks like he has lost all of the confidence he has built up during the previous spell.

I hope he has lost this trait of having fragile confidence and returns to the team where he left off, all guns blazing.
 
unitedbhoy said:
Slightly worried about his return on Sunday. The last few seasons, where he has showed his potential, has usually been during a good spell in the team's lineup. But when he has been rested and returned, he looks like he has lost all of the confidence he has built up during the previous spell.
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Can't you just imagine we didn't played on Wednesday and our next game after Bolton is Chelsea?
 
I can't imagine his confidence taking a hit, even if previously he it had for missing out games after playing well. In fact I'd expect his confidence to be higher in that he was probably rested in order to be ready for a lot more important game.
 
unitedbhoy said:
Slightly worried about his return on Sunday. The last few seasons, where he has showed his potential, has usually been during a good spell in the team's lineup. But when he has been rested and returned, he looks like he has lost all of the confidence he has built up during the previous spell.

I hope he has lost this trait of having fragile confidence and returns to the team where he left off, all guns blazing.
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Christ, he only missed a midweek game. Hardly a long time out.

I'd be more worried about him starting if he'd played 90 minutes against Benfica after the Bolton game personally.

As far as confidence goes I'm sure the manager has told him that he's first choice at the moment due to his form and just encouraged him to keep it up.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
Christ, he only missed a midweek game. Hardly a long time out.

I'd be more worried about him starting if he'd played 90 minutes against Benfica after the Bolton game personally.

As far as confidence goes I'm sure the manager has told him that he's first choice at the moment due to his form and just encouraged him to keep it up.
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Indeed!
 
Devil_forever said:
Given the vast attacking talent at our disposal, is there any need to be conservative away from home against a team of Benfica's ability (with all due respect to Benfica)?

The same question goes to you as well Chief.
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Benfica have a great record at home. They're no slouches, people should give them more credit.
 
Don't think confidence is an issue for Ando...fitness and lack of football are usually to blame for lackluster performances from him.

He will have enjoyed the time off midweek, and be ready for Mikel and Co on Sunday.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
Christ, he only missed a midweek game. Hardly a long time out.

I'd be more worried about him starting if he'd played 90 minutes against Benfica after the Bolton game personally.

As far as confidence goes I'm sure the manager has told him that he's first choice at the moment due to his form and just encouraged him to keep it up.
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I could, but it didn't, so I won't. I really want this Anderson to stay for good. But my worry may well vanish quickly if he performs on Sunday.
 
Yes, it is an opportunity on Sunday for Anderson to lay down a marker - I'm confident he'll be a major asset if he avoids the treatment table this season
 
Sir Alex Ferguson tells the story of the first time he saw Phil Jones play football and the rare exhilaration of knowing he was witnessing something special. "He was 16," Ferguson recalls. "He was playing against our youth team and he was immense. The next day I phoned Sam Allardyce, who was Blackburn's manager at the time, and he just laughed at me. 'Aye,' he said, 'that boy will be in my first-team on Saturday.'"

The feeling Ferguson experienced that day was reminiscent of the first time he clapped eyes on a 13-year-old Ryan Wilson (later Giggs) with the ball at his feet and a stream of opponents in pursuit, a moment of euphoria the Manchester United manager once likened to a gold prospector who has panned through every river and mountain suddenly finding himself staring at a nugget.

But he is not alone. Tom Clare, who grew up alongside Sir Matt Busby's emerging team and wrote the compelling Forever a Babe, was moved this week to compare Jones to Duncan Edwards. "Watching his pace, his vision, his touch, his physique, his youthfulness and exuberance for the game, it brought the memories flooding back. Since Duncan's passing, no other player has ever done that for me. Until now."

Sir Bobby Charlton, who remembers Edwards's tackling as "a series of tank traps" and has openly admitted feeling inferior alongside him, has found himself making the same comparison over the past few weeks. Jones, at 19, has already shown he has the temperament, ability and competitive courage to be an ideal wearer of United's colours. "Some players come to a new club, a big club like United, and they take their time," Ferguson says. "We're very fortunate because Jones has just blossomed right away."

For others, it is a more drawn-out process. Back in 2007 United went to Anfield, home of the old enemy, and it was another 19-year-old, Anderson, who delivered the kind of performance that, for Ferguson, represented one of those moments when all the sweat and frustration and hardships of management felt worthwhile.

Anderson did something that day that has rarely been achieved at the home of Liverpool: he dominated Steven Gerrard on his own patch. The first 50-50 set the tone. Anderson snapped into Gerrard's ankles and came away with the ball. The second time it happened, Gerrard fixed him with a stare. It was a look that said: "And you are?"

What has happened to Anderson over the following years demonstrates how quickly a young player's priorities can blur and why some of the greatest qualities a manager can possess are patience and tolerance. Fortunately for the Brazilian, Ferguson has equal measures of both. But it has been a close-run thing at times and in the worst moments, it was difficult to envisage the situation we have seen this week, of Anderson being deemed so important for a weekend fixture the manager rested him from a Champions League tie.

Anderson was held back for Sunday's game against Chelsea on the basis that his contribution to United's winning start has been so purposeful and significant. He has been the driving force in the team's midfield during a free-scoring run that has seen them accumulate 18 goals from four league games and while the season is still in its infancy, his hard running, penetrative passing and newly acquired maturity have left us with the sense that this is the juncture when he re-establishes himself as a serious footballer.

Anderson has been in Manchester four years now, so it is not before time. He has won three Premier League medals, two League Cups and helped the team reach three Champions League finals – and yet the paradox is that he has done all this without shaking the firm impression that this is someone who ought to have delivered more.

Consider, for example, those Champions League finals. Anderson was a substitute against Chelsea in 2008, replacing Wes Brown in the final seconds of extra time, purely so he could take part in the penalty shoot-out. He was removed at half-time after an undistinguished performance the following year against Barcelona, and did not get off the bench against the same opponents at Wembley in May.

Gary Neville's autobiography came out this month and the Brazilian does not merit a single mention. Three hundred pages about the glories, the personalities and mechanics of being at a club of United's size and ambition – but not one word about a player who cost €30m (£26.2m in today's exchange rate) to become the fifth most expensive player in the club's history.

What we have now is a player who is slowly reminding us why Mário Zagallo, Brazil's World Cup-winning coach of 1970, once talked of him as a "prodigy with indisputable quality". That was in 2007 after Dunga had called Anderson into his Copa América squad, and Zagallo's belief was that "everything suggests he is going to be a superstar".

Since then, however, there have been only eight caps. According to the Globo TV commentator Jon Cotterill, the perception has developed in Brazil of a footballer who has abandoned the qualities that made him so revered in the first place. "Anderson started off as the new Ronaldinho but he's changed his style of play completely. He's learned to mark. He's bulked up. He's more direct. But he seems to have forgotten his talent and creative gifts."

For United, Anderson has averaged fewer than 20 league starts per season. At the lowest moments he responded to one blast of Ferguson's temper by flying back to Brazil without the club's permission, an indiscretion that cost him a week's wages. There were stories of him meeting officials from Grêmio, the club where he began his career. Anderson, for a time, looked as though he could leave and quickly be forgotten.

The coaches at Old Trafford talk now of someone who has knuckled down, lost weight and, at 23, is still young enough to consider the best years are yet to come, particularly if he continues to play the kind of mature, intelligent football that Paul Scholes felt was coming before the start of the season.

"He can be a bit erratic at times, but you forget he's still a young lad," Scholes, now a member of Ferguson's backroom staff, said. "Hopefully, with a bit more concentration, he can score more goals as well. He has the attributes. He has struggled with injury but if he is as professional as he can be, he should be a top-class player."

The question of professionalism is relevant because Anderson has had his fair share of lost nights. Not in the places where Manchester's glitterati usually flaunt their wealth, but the kind of venues where the music is a bit louder, the drinks are cheap and the carpets sticky. There have been some embarrassing headlines and like many young, rich Brazilian footballers, the sense that partying should be a way of life, no matter what time training starts the following morning.

One theory at Old Trafford is that Anderson has benefited from having a steady girlfriend and a young family and, in turn, is gradually shedding his image as the party animal who, 13 months ago, ended up in hospital after leaving a Portuguese nightclub at 6am and crashing off the road. Anderson, dragged unconscious from his burning car, was recovering at the time from a ruptured cruciate ligament, the injury footballers fear the most. "Perhaps he needed that bang on the head," one United official volunteered in the weeks to come.

The question now is the same one that hangs over Jones and it is this: can he keep it up? There have, after all, been other moments in the Anderson story when he has flirted with the idea of becoming an authentic category-A footballer before disappearing back to the edges. "His form so far this season has been brilliant," Ferguson says, "but we always knew he was capable of that."

The key is keeping it up. These are the moments when Anderson needs to show he has become a grown-up footballer rather than the boy who stayed too young too long. The new Anderson, rather than the new Ronaldinho.
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Latest Daniel Taylor article take from the Guardian.
 
Was just about to post the link!

If his early season form is anything to go by, he'll have one hell of a season, and hopefully put the doubters to bed!

High praise for Jones too, by our very own Tom Clare too! Still early to compare him to the legends of the game, but Jones is certainly building himself a solid reputation!
 
68-99-08 said:
Latest Daniel Taylor article take from the Guardian.
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Good piece but why does he quote the price for Anderson in today's exchange rate? That's just daft. It'd be like me going on holiday in France and saying to a shopkeeper that 4 years ago an item only cost me a tenner so I want it for a tenner.
 
Devil_forever said:
Given the vast attacking talent at our disposal, is there any need to be conservative away from home against a team of Benfica's ability (with all due respect to Benfica)?

The same question goes to you as well Chief.
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Yes. Reasons being firstly teams like Benfica are stronger than people think and away ties in Europe are far from easy and are not risk taking ventures. Then secondly, it has given us an incredible away record in Europe since 2008. Only Barca has managed to best us in that period. Yet that was on neutral ground. No need to fix what isn't broke.

Last of all an most importantly, you don't play overly offensive football with players who lack match fitness.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Yes. Reasons being firstly teams like Benfica are stronger than people think and away ties in Europe are far from easy and are not risk taking ventures. Then secondly, it has given us an incredible away record in Europe since 2008. Only Barca has managed to best us in that period. Yet that was on neutral ground. No need to fix what isn't broke.

Last of all an most importantly, you don't play overly offensive football with players who lack match fitness.
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Absolutely right chief, this can't be stated enough. Since the beginning of 08/09, Barcelona have drew against Rubin Kazanx2, FC Copenhagen, Inter, Stuttgart, Arsenal, Lyon, Munich, Chelsea, as well as losing against Arsenal and Wisla Krakow, which means they've either lost or drawn half of their away games in that period. Or another way of looking at it is this is a list of teams that have taken points off Chelsea, Madrid, Barcelona, Inter and Bayern in the same time period, just three years:

Rubin Kazan
Wisla Krakow
FC Copenhagen
CFR Cluj
FC Twente
Anorthosis Famagusta

These are teams that would give their left bollocks to have some of the players that Benfica have. And then here's a list of teams that have given the same teams a very hard time:

Auxerre
Basel
FC Zurich
Zenit St Petersburg
BATE Borisov
Apoel Nicosia
Dynamo Kyiv

There are extremely few easy aways in the Champions League, whatever the stage. We shouldn't expect to win them, we should be grateful how few upsets we have had in these games in recent years.
 
Godfather said:
Which makes me wonder whether we got enough depth in CM.
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Well, isn't that always the case, for every team? I mean, there is the difference between first team starters and subs. And when I see our bench I see Carrick, Fletctcher, Giggs (This when Cleverly isn't injured). I'm not worried at all what so ever.
 
Anyone care to weigh in on his game?

He didn't seem to click in this game, though Chelsea is the best midfield he's come up against so far this season. I'd be interested to know what people think of how he worked with Fletcher versus Carrick and Cleverley.
 
His passing was way off in some cases but, he was all over the pitch in the first half, really running about and making himself available constantly.

He did play some lovely balls cross field though.
 
Yeah, not a good game from him, but Rooney and Hernandez were also well below par tonight I thought, so probably just one of those games.
 
first half he was great, had lots of energy, just got him into trouble couple times though. i thought he looked sluggish second half, maybe he picked up a knock or something, wasn't surprised to see him come off so soon
 
There was one moment where he hit a pass straight to a Chelsea player and he bounced it straight back to Ando, who played the EXACT same pass again straight to the Chelsea player, that along with the sloppy pass across our back 4 that played Torres in summed up his afternoon
 
he was a bit off today, looks clumsy on the ball as well..but it is just one of those days..he has a very good start to this season after all.
 
Was very poor today. Felt a bit sorry for him. From very early on you could see he was going to have one of those days. When he picked out the same Chelsea player with the same pass, twice in quick succession you could tell he'd left his passing boots at home.
 
it didn't help having a rusty Fletch next to him, he did ok TBH, they dominated us much more when he was substituted
 
gooDevil said:
Anyone care to weigh in on his game?

He didn't seem to click in this game, though Chelsea is the best midfield he's come up against so far this season. I'd be interested to know what people think of how he worked with Fletcher versus Carrick and Cleverley.
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It was a bit of a frantic game to be honest. Our players were misplacing passes as often as they were putting through some brilliant ones. Anderson himself hit some beauties but like Fletcher, often followed with a terrible one in his own half or one that was way too ambitious. But it was that kind of game. Everything was frantic.

Having said that, he could have had a bit more composure. But the biggest problem IMO was that he and Fletcher didn't actually look like a partnership. They were almost playing in isolation for me. They didn't feed off each other like a good central pair should. But we should give them time. It's always an adjustment.

Also, Anderson always looked good today when he kept it a little more simple. He's become a quality footballer but that doesn't mean there's nothing to learn. Hopefully he has a great season but also learns from the games where he doesn't play as well as he can.
 
I think he was almost given too much freedom in a way, because Fletcher was on the pitch and not Cleverley, so he was just constantly trying to pick out his "hollywood" passes and they weren't working.

Very poor from him.
 
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