When Berba started for us people complained he was played too deep and then last year - his best season so far he was played further up the pitch and was very good.
Berbatov | Fulham player
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When Berba started for us people complained he was played too deep and then last year - his best season so far he was played further up the pitch and was very good.
I think its more than that - you are selling Berba short if you think hes just Rooney cover - he is our second best striker not just our best Rooney understudy.
I am saying the pace of football argument is a non starter as evidence that Berba will automatically thrive under the way we are playing at the moment. There is way more to it than that.
It was his best season in terms of goals, but often he did not play magnificently last season. He had some good games which good players given a run should produce, but it was hardly regularly outstanding performances from him.
Look at Rooney, he has had good seasons before now, but i believe this season will be his best, because the team is now set up to best complement his all round game.
I believe that now applies or Berba too, which is why i feel Fergie has kept him on, so when the need arises he has the option of keeping to the same system with a similar type player in the key position.
Not at all, it is just he is the only other second striker we have, and i do not believe he is in direct competition with Hernandez, Owen, Welbeck etc as he is not the right type of player for that role.
Maybe there is, but as it is only speculation it is all yet to be proved. My argument suggests there has been precedence for him performing well in teams that are set up to suit his style, as i believe we are now.
He has only really had any run of games at Utd playing alongside Rooney, which is a bit Lampard /Gerrard for me. When has he ever had a decent run alongside an Owen or a Hernandez? Which is what he had with Keane. He had it for a short while last year and by your own admission he had his best year yet.
Let's not forget Bulgaria also played with pacy players who went past him, ad he managed an impressive 48 goals in 74 apps.
Apoth
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. We can only wait and see how he performs. I am not sure how many games Berba will get and getting the odd game here and there won't help - you need a run of games to build form or have a blinder and force the issue.
I did expect him to start against Benfica and was surprised he did not.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. We can only wait and see how he performs. I am not sure how many games Berba will get and getting the odd game here and there won't help - you need a run of games to build form or have a blinder and force the issue.
I did expect him to start against Benfica and was surprised he did not.
Berbatov can play with Rooney, it can look good at times, but they both have to play well for it to happen. It's just not a natural partnership. Hernandez's movement and pace means that even if he's not playing well, he still streches defences the way neither Berba nor Rooney do. It means both are better off playing alongside Chica.
We gave the Rooney and Berbatov partnership a long time to gel. It happened to a decent level, but you just know that it'll never be great - while other partnerships we have will be. So yeah, Berba may be seen simply as Rooney's backup.
We gave the Rooney and Berbatov partnership a long time to gel. It happened to a decent level, but you just know that it'll never be great - while other partnerships we have will be. So yeah, Berba may be seen simply as Rooney's backup.
Very true, time will tell i suppose.
I think he will get a run at some point. I can see a possible opportunity at the start of Nov where the fixtures seem a little easier, on paper at least.
Yes i thought he would start against Benfica as well, near enough every one else who needed games did! But in hindsight, it was our most difficult fixture of the group stages, and with so many players looking for match fitness, i suppose SAF wanted some sharpness up front.
I should think Berba will play in the hole today with Hernandez looking to beat the offside trap. Team selection today highlights that SAF thinks of Berba as cover for Rooney in that creative forward role.
looking forward to his link up play today, with young, anderson and nani that's alot of pace for him to work with, not to mention hernandez' making the runs... think he'll have a good game
Really want thim to have a good game today, and get himself a goal or two.
Always felt he would start regardless of Rooney due to the fact that his height is an advantage against Stoke's set plays.
Last season his best performances almost invariably occurred with Rooney on the pitch... but hopefully he'll buck the trend tonight, Blackpool-style.
This counting on his height thing is borderline ridiculous though: he's not a good header of the ball, he's not a reliable man-marker either. I daresay both Rooney and Hernández are more useful in this area.
This counting on his height thing is borderline ridiculous though: he's not a good header of the ball, he's not a reliable man-marker either. I daresay both Rooney and Hernández are more useful in this area.
Even if he doesn't score his inclusion means we'll make chances, Berbatov and Hernandez have played well together before.
Nah, defensively Berbatov is pretty good in the air and he showed that in the early stages against Leeds and he's also generally started against Stoke. Whenever he plays its him who is back helping out the defence marking a tall player. He's not bad for someone who is a striker.
would be a great boost to his confidence. just being able to influence the game would be great.
That's absolute tripe; his heading might not be the best in offensive situations but whenever there's a corner or other set-play Berbatov invariably pops up to clear the lines. To say that Hernandez is more useful defensively than Berbatov is borderline retarded.
This is bullshit. It's not borderline.
Berbatov is more than just useful when defending high balls in our box.
Certainly better than Hernandez.
Certainly better than Hernandez.
Will he start on Tuesday? If Rooney is nit 100% then Berba should start - he needs games.
He's not going to get nearly as many games this season, so he needs to learn how to play well when not getting as much time.
Midfield is shit --> horrible working conditions for the attackers/strikers --> Berba is poor --> he needs to learn how to play well.
Love your logic.
I'm just gonna say that I'd love to see Berba play in the team we saw earlier this season, with Ando and Cleverley tearing it up (is that a correct use of that phrase? too drunk to tell) in midfield. If Berba were to fail with a midfield like that behind him, lots of movement, high tempo, support and quick passes, which would provide close to an optimal environment for him to flourish considering the type of player he is, I'd concede that he doesn't have the mental strength or whatever to make it here.
But if you're going to blame anyone for Berbatov not reaching the heights which we all hoped he would when he joined us, it would seem reasonable that you'd blame SAF for not utilizing him properly. If you're buying a player for £30 million, and then either refuse or fail to play to his strengths, it seems weird to turn around and blame the player for not succeeding.
He's barely played this season, and is then suddenly thrown into action against the physically toughest opponents of the season, with a midfield barely able to complete a pass behind him, and an aging has-been poacher in front of him offering nothing except a few cute runs. And if you then expect him to turn water into wine, you've clearly no idea what type of player Berba is.
I won't deny that he had a bad game today, but I can certainly see where his frustration comes from.
Love your logic.
I'm just gonna say that I'd love to see Berba play in the team we saw earlier this season, with Ando and Cleverley tearing it up (is that a correct use of that phrase? too drunk to tell) in midfield. If Berba were to fail with a midfield like that behind him, lots of movement, high tempo, support and quick passes, which would provide close to an optimal environment for him to flourish considering the type of player he is, I'd concede that he doesn't have the mental strength or whatever to make it here.
But if you're going to blame anyone for Berbatov not reaching the heights which we all hoped he would when he joined us, it would seem reasonable that you'd blame SAF for not utilizing him properly. If you're buying a player for £30 million, and then either refuse or fail to play to his strengths, it seems weird to turn around and blame the player for not succeeding.
He's barely played this season, and is then suddenly thrown into action against the physically toughest opponents of the season, with a midfield barely able to complete a pass behind him, and an aging has-been poacher in front of him offering nothing except a few cute runs. And if you then expect him to turn water into wine, you've clearly no idea what type of player Berba is.
I won't deny that he had a bad game today, but I can certainly see where his frustration comes from.
He's BEEN in a fast and fluid attack when Tevez and Ronaldo were still at United - he ALWAYS slows down play.
And yes, one can question WHY SAF bought him, but Berbatov is still not a perfect fit for United's attacking speed.
In fact, you can commend what he achieved last season. But NOW?
He was a bit shit today and we looked better when he was subbed for Giggs. I'm sure evra will come and say that the combination doesn't work, but we've see before that it does... Owen looked sharpish even if he was a bit off, Berbatov just looked languid and out of touch.
More then anything if he stays for this entire season, he needs to get it in his head that this is how much game time he's going to get and utilize it if he gets the chance.
At the moment, you'd have to say that he's fifth choice.
More then anything if he stays for this entire season, he needs to get it in his head that this is how much game time he's going to get and utilize it if he gets the chance.
At the moment, you'd have to say that he's fifth choice.
Love your logic.
Berba plays shit = SAF's fault, midfield's fault, poor conditions for strikers, his ageing strike partner's fault.
It's always the same with you berba lovers, it's anyone's fault but his own.
I always used to defend Berbs to my mates but I cant anymore, he really isnt good enough for our current side he is way to slow even when he runs which he hardly ever does.
Berba did not have a great match, but he played decently all factors considered. Imo, if Hernandez had played on, things eould have been different.
Berba's movement off the ball and the way he created space for Owen and the rest was very good. Watch Nani's goal again, see Berba's movement and what happens to the Stoke defense when he dropped back, giving Nani the option to either pass to him or to cut inside as he did. He also had a good run and cross for Owen, that was not converted.
He needs to get more match time and he will improve.
Berba's movement off the ball and the way he created space for Owen and the rest was very good. Watch Nani's goal again, see Berba's movement and what happens to the Stoke defense when he dropped back, giving Nani the option to either pass to him or to cut inside as he did. He also had a good run and cross for Owen, that was not converted.
He needs to get more match time and he will improve.
Should have sold him in the Summer, then we'd have been forced to try other options. At the moment he gets games above Macheda, Wellbeck, Diouf etc purely because he cost £30 mil. On the balance of everything, we're better off without him
He was really bad yesterday, but he's cover for Wayne Rooney.
Without Rooney we need someone more dynamic in that position to link up well with Anderson in midfield and whoever is playing further forward. I'd sooner experiment with Park or Young or someone else in that position, at least someone who will put a shift in and not disrupt everything
Both him and Owen were really poor. I dont expect much from Owen at all. He is there simply to put away a chance if it comes his way. I expect far more from Berbatov. Thats 2 games he has been given and both times he failed to take his chance to give Fergie a selection headache.
He is lucky though. We have 2 very handy winnable home games on Tuesday and Satuday. He needs to play both games and needs to perform.
I think he will. But the doubts for me still continue.
He is lucky though. We have 2 very handy winnable home games on Tuesday and Satuday. He needs to play both games and needs to perform.
I think he will. But the doubts for me still continue.
Not really. welbeck gets games ahead of him and neither of macheda or diouf are even close to being as good as him tbh.
Sir alex is one person you can never blame for taking the easy way out.
Don't be such a hypocrite Sharky, you are just as guilty of rose tinted specs regarding Evra.
We each see things subjectively to suit our own opinions, the difference is you take people to task for doing it with Berba, whilst in the same breath doing exactly the same with Evra.
I'll dispute this, as we really cannot tell until either of those mentioned are given a run of games in the first team. Additionally, actual ability in this context is subsidiary to how the player fits into the team dynamic and affects the result and performance of the team.
He gets games above the others? That was his first start of the season! He got in ahead of the others because Rooney was out and our system needs a second striker.
I said this last week, Berba has been kept as cover for Rooney, nothing else.
Young is not a bad shout though, i think he could do a job there and offer a different option to Berba. But i think it's a little harsh to judge him on his first start, away at Stoke, with lots of injuries and a relatively poor team performance. Somebody blamed Fletcher yesterday for the teams poor showing, which i find ridiculously unfair to single out individual players when the whole team didn't play well. Same would have to apply for Berba.
We should cut the lads a bit of slack, the start we have had seems to have set the bar very high, and it is a little unfair to castigate some of the players who have come in, for us failing to keep up that standard.
The defnsive injuries were always going to make this game very tough, and losing our first choice strikeforce certainly didn't help. So while we are all disappointed not to have won, under the circumstances a point there is not a bad result considering how we played.
Both of them played in the CC though and neither really shone. i dont blame them, they are young and learning.
its quite simple really, we had a goalscorer in chicharito playing. he stays up on the last man and rarely comes deep to get involved. would you really want to put macheda or diouf with him and not berba who can orchestrate play by dropping deep just like rooney does?
it was his first start this season, when he was the golden boot winner the last time round. he isnt holding anybody back imo.
They were both played out on the wings. Hardly fair to judge. Especially Macheda. He needs games up front to prove himself so I see the Leeds game as bit of a wasted oppertunity. Would love to have seen him start up front instead of Owen (even though Owen did so well last week).
I like Berbatov BUT he needs to get it into his head he's a striker. You can't always assist. He's a good striker. He needs to take his chances and look half threatening.
True. MAcheda will never be a winger. But, i dont see him getting chances here tbh. the other 5 are deservedly ahead of him. he needs to go out on loan and prove himself there. he's young and has time on his side.
rooney and chicha will be playing most of the big games with the other 2 rotated and it'l be owen and berba in the CC games etc with welbeck being in both groups as i see it.
His performance was frustrating but he should've been playing in the Owen's position rather than playing just behind the striker. His highest goal tally and best performances has been as a main striker rather than playing just behind the other striker.