Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

[AlwaysRedwood]

When it's a he said, he said situation, most look at the character of the men involved. In this case, we have Liverpool creating lies about Evra's past to justify their claims he is lying. Doesn't hold water. This is actually out of character for Evra.

On the other hand, we have Suarez, one of the ugliest characters we've seen in a while, unless, of course, someone can name another player who bit an opponent on the shoulder. I can't. And my opinion of Suarez was cemented on the day. Top on his endless attempts to cheat, and there you go.

That's why I'm falling on the Evra is telling the truth side. No reason for him to make up the accusation. He's had chances in the past to do the same with other players and has not done so. And Suarez is Suarez. Enough said.

If Evra is punished for making an accusation, then the EPL has a big problem on it's hand. Implications are pretty huge.

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

What are your criteria for this happening - ie the allegations being proved to be lies?

put yourself in Suarez's shoes, and take out all the rivallry, take out the fact you dont like him as a person or footballer. you're playing football and someone accuses you of being racist towards them. accuses you on TV and in the press. You know you have done nothing wrong here. I'd be taking legal advice, and i dare say every person on here would be doing the same, because if you know you have done nothing wrong, then you would want to clear your name

 

[Waltraute]

i'm not trying to play anything. i'm just calling it as it is. like i said before, it seems some on here want the allegations to be true. which is a but pathetic. but what i will say is this, if the allegations turn out to be a load of nonsense, Suarez should consider taking legal action against Evra for Slander and or Libel

I expect it is true that Evra percieved himself as being the target of racist slurs, yes. Because I find it very hard to believe that he'd fabricate this out of thin air, not only intentionally telling outright lies about a fellow pro's conduct, but also trivialising the issue of racism.

Could he have misinterpreted Suarez's comments? Of course.
Will it be possible to prove that the allegations are true? Very unlikely.
Can those of you who're doubting Evra's intentions present any reasons as to why he'd intentionally lie in this case?

And as I've mentioned before, being unable to prove a racist slur was uttered is not equivalent to proving no racist slur was uttered. Proving that Evra deliberately lied is just as hard as proving Suarez guilty of racism.

 

[Mick1991]

put yourself in Suarez's shoes, and take out all the rivallry, take out the fact you dont like him as a person or footballer. you're playing football and someone accuses you of being racist towards them. accuses you on TV and in the press. You know you have done nothing wrong here. I'd be taking legal advice, and i dare say every person on here would be doing the same, because if you know you have done nothing wrong, then you would want to clear your name

If.......

 

[SteveJ]

The presence of only two black managers in English professional football, the Patrice Evra allegations and Uefa still mulling over Bulgarian fans’ taunting of England’s Ashley Young: sadly, racism remains on the footballing agenda.

Henry Winter: English football must stamp out racism - Telegraph

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

I expect it is true that Evra percieved himself as being the target of racist slurs, yes. Because I find it very hard to believe that he'd fabricate this out of thin air, not only intentionally telling outright lies about a fellow pro's conduct, but also trivialising the issue of racism.

Could he have misinterpreted Suarez's comments? Of course.
Will it be possible to prove that the allegations are true? Very unlikely.
Can those of you who're doubting Evra's intentions present any reasons as to why he'd intentionally lie in this case?

And as I've mentioned before, being unable to prove a racist slur was uttered is not equivalent to proving no racist slur was uttered. Proving that Evra deliberately lied is just as hard as proving Suarez guilty of racism.

100% correct

 

[Joey Mac]

If no evidence can be found, which seemingly is an increasingly likely outcome, then this does not equate to Evra having fabricated the story - a point that has been made to death in this thread.

If legal proceedings began against Evra following this, regardless of by who, what kind of message would that send out?

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

If.......

absolutely "If". but if someone accused you of being racist in the papers and on the telly, and you hadnt done anything, what would you do? nothing?

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

If no evidence can be found, which seemingly is an increasingly likely outcome, then this does not equate to Evra having fabricated the story - a point that has been made to death in this thread.

If legal proceedings began against Evra following this, regardless of by who, what kind of message would that send out?

that someone wanted to clear their name?

 

[Waltraute]

put yourself in Suarez's shoes, and take out all the rivallry, take out the fact you dont like him as a person or footballer. you're playing football and someone accuses you of being racist towards them. accuses you on TV and in the press. You know you have done nothing wrong here. I'd be taking legal advice, and i dare say every person on here would be doing the same, because if you know you have done nothing wrong, then you would want to clear your name

I would have called Evra, doing my best to explain that I didn't intend to come across as racist in any way and apologising for coming across that way.
Actually, I'd probably try to have a few words with him after the game to clear the air (it's easy to see when an opposition player is pissed off with you, and often good to have a word).

It's not that hard, is it?

 

[FreakyJim]

Of course nothing will be proven, Suarez will get away with it and will even claim moral high ground (probably getting Evra a 10 match ban) but for me he is guilty until proven innocent, just on account of being the most disgusting, repulsive and vile cheating cnut I've seen in the PL.

And I bet he really did it.

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

I would have called Evra, doing my best to explain that I didn't intend to come across as racist in any way and apologising for coming across that way.
Actually, I'd probably try to have a few words with him after the game to clear the air (it's easy to see when an opposition player is pissed off with you, and often good to have a word).

It's not that hard, is it?

thats all well and good saying that. But why didnt Evra go and see Suarez after the game? why didnt he say to the ref at the time, why was he running to the press? two sides to this.

 

[Joey Mac]

that someone wanted to clear their name?

What about for any other player who is racially abused in a future match? What would they do then?

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

that someone wanted to clear their name?

Inconclusive does not clear someone's name. It's just inconclusive.

Suarez cannot ever clear his name. Ever. Because no one will ever know if he said it or not.

Seems fitting for a gentleman who chews on people's shoulders.

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

What about for any other player who is racially abused in a future match? What would they do then?

thats the problem i alluded to in another post. the way this whole thing has been handled and publicised has been a mess. It should have been kept inhouse by the clubs til it was investigated properly.

If these allegations have no substance, will it deter players who have actually been racially abused from coming forward? possibly, and that would be the worst outcome of all

 

[FreakyJim]

Polygraph Suarez's arse.

Come to think of it, he'd probably cheat that too.

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

Inconclusive does not clear someone's name. It's just inconclusive.

Suarez cannot ever clear his name. Ever. Because no one will ever know if he said it or not.

Seems fitting for a gentleman who chews on people's shoulders.

well no, its not fitting for anyone. what about Granny shaggers, shoplifters, alleged rapists, drunk drivers, people who shag their brothers wives and then make them get an abortion. should their previous follow them around should they be accused of something vile like racism that was never proved? no.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

thats all well and good saying that. But why didnt Evra go and see Suarez after the game? why didnt he say to the ref at the time, why was he running to the press? two sides to this.

Hilarious

"Um, hey, you just called me a ni***r. What's that all about? Should we discuss it over tea?"

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

well no, its not fitting for anyone. what about Granny shaggers, shoplifters, alleged rapists, drunk drivers, people who shag their brothers wives and then make them get an abortion. should their previous follow them around should they be accused of something vile like racism that was never proved? no.

All goes to the character of the man.

Welcome to being human. First time? Or are you a robot?

 

[afrocentricity]

thats the problem i alluded to in another post. the way this whole thing has been handled and publicised has been a mess. It should have been kept inhouse by the clubs til it was investigated properly.

If these allegations have no substance, will it deter players who have actually been racially abused from coming forward? possibly, and that would be the worst outcome of all

IMO, you should speak out regardless, I would have loved Ev to have put him on his arse but he had to remain professional. I can relate to the feeling that no-one will believe you so what's the point, but I'm old enough to not give a fcuk.

As for keeping it inhouse and brushing it under the carpet, why?

 

[Red Dreams]

i dont think i am missing the point,and i agree with every point you have made there. but, and this is the big but here,with all those camera's at the ground, for Suarez to have repeated this word 10 times and it never been picked up any any camera, or heard by by other person, then Suarez has either been extremely lucky, or Evra is telling lies/misheard. I'm also curious to what language this was said in. is Evra multi lingual? Suarez barely speaks English, but can speak Spanish and Dutch, and i know Suarez has a set of teeth that he could eat an apple through a letterbox, but surely someone would be able to lipread what was said.

these are facts your need to consider.

Firstly determine if there is a motive for Evra to lie. During the match I did not see any tackles and physical challenges between either of them. I did see verbals between them. I did not think anything of it.

btw there is no history of Evra doing this. Your club person has made up the stories. Even the Chelsea case was not Evra directly making the charge. He was banned for violence.
I am not aware of any other past case.

Ok. If there was really 'nothing' during the match, was there any history between them?

So why would Evra make this up and distract himself and the club.
This is a very serious allegation.

The camera was not on just the two players throughout the match. It would have been on the play. So to say we did not see the '10 times verbal abuse' is not proof it never happened.

Remember. Suarez has yet to categorically deny he abused Evra. What we have is non-denial denial. I am sure this has been worked out by LFC PR or attorneys.

So we can conclude something was said.

We can give the benefit of the doubt that Evra misunderstood...repeatedly what Surez said.

What was actually said should come out in the hearing.

This is the first time I am hearing where the person who brings a charge should be banned if it is not proven.

Sounds of desperation telling Evra to drop the charge.

I doubt Suarez nor Evra will be tarnished if nothing comes of this. United supporters will believe Evra and the Liverpool and ABU supporters will side with Suarez.

Let the FA conduct its hearing.

 

[711]

What about for any other player who is racially abused in a future match? What would they do then?

What about for any other player who is wrongly accused of racial abuse in a future match? What would they do then?

 

[afrocentricity]

well no, its not fitting for anyone. what about Granny shaggers, shoplifters, alleged rapists, drunk drivers, people who shag their brothers wives and then make them get an abortion. should their previous follow them around should they be accused of something vile like racism that was never proved? no.

Probably.... the same way Evra's previous should be taken into consideration. But of course you disagree right?

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

IMO, you should speak out regardless, I would have loved Ev to have put him on his arse but he had to remain professional. I can relate to the feeling that no-one will believe you so what's the point, but I'm old enough to not give a fcuk.

As for keeping it inhouse and brushing it under the carpet, why?

Where did i say brush it under the carpet?

Evra says to the ref during the game, the ref puts it in his report. Two managers and clubs are spoken to by the ref, they get all the video footage, they investigate claims. if claims are true, made public, book thrown at Suarez, if they arent, shake hands, misunderstanding or whatever, no one knows, all reputations intact, no players in the future subject to racism put off coming forward.

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

Probably.... the same way Evra's previous should be taken into consideration. But of course you disagree right?

no ones previous should be taken into consideration. the only things that are taken into consideration are the facts that we have in this case. noting else.

 

[Feeky Magee]

I notice redman5 has been on since the allegations of Evra having a history of playing the race card have been disproven and has declined to comment.

 

[afrocentricity]

no ones previous should be taken into consideration. the only things that are taken into consideration are the facts that we have in this case. noting else.

But yet your club are trying to discredit Evra based on his ...... dadada, previous....

Where did i say brush it under the carpet?

Evra says to the ref during the game, the ref puts it in his report. Two managers and clubs are spoken to by the ref, they get all the video footage, they investigate claims. if claims are true, made public, book thrown at Suarez, if they arent, shake hands, misunderstanding or whatever, no one knows, all reputations intact, no players in the future subject to racism put off coming forward.

Bollox, but fair enough if that's how you feel... guess you're more of a shrinking violet eh Fred? Well that's definitely not in Evras character, so here we are... talking about the racism that is inherently still in the game, instead of being none the wiser...

I notice redman5 has been on since the allegations of Evra having a history of playing the race card have been disproven and has declined to comment.

We've got good cop with us for the time being, I'm sure bad cop will be back at some stage?

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

But yet your club are trying to discredit Evra based on his ...... dadada, previous....

i dont think the club have officially commented on any alleged previous. from what i can see, someone who writes a blog on the site has said written a piece, but the club have said very little on the whole thing, as, to be fair, have your lot.

I dont know what went on at Stamford Bridge, nor with the chanting at a game, the Finnan one was just nonsense and i dont think from memory Evra made the complaint, it was a couple of deaf fans.

 

[SteveJ]

It's a shame that, in 2011, we're still discussing racism in the game...especially on a day when politicians have been discussing police misdemeanours against football fans. Sadly, some things never change, eh?

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

Bollox, but fair enough if that's how you feel... guess you're more of a shrinking violet eh Fred? Well that's definitely not in Evras character, so here we are... talking about the racism that is inherently still in the game, instead of being none the wiser...

so you think running to the media was the best course of action, stating that Suarez said this 10 times and it would be clear on the tv, and now, 48 hours later, no evidence, Evra saying he is going to pursue it (to be fair if he backs out now it would look pretty bad from his point of view), and best case scenario is that once completely innocent person has their reputation tarnished? fair enough

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

It's a shame that, in 2011, we're still discussing racism in the game...especially on a day when politicians have been discussing police misdemeanours against football fans. Sadly, some things never change, eh?

it is a shame, its a shame that its still an issue, but football has made massive strides with the kick racism out campaign, although this Suarez/Evra thing has done nothing to help its cause

 

[Red Dreams]

I agree huge strides have been made. This is an unnecessary distraction.

 

[afrocentricity]

so you think running to the media was the best course of action, stating that Suarez said this 10 times and it would be clear on the tv, and now, 48 hours later, no evidence, Evra saying he is going to pursue it (to be fair if he backs out now it would look pretty bad from his point of view), and best case scenario is that once completely innocent person has their reputation tarnished? fair enough

Thing is Fred, you are coming into this with your mind made up, it's making you seem blinkered but that's how it is, you probably think some of us are blinkered...

Putting yourself in Evras shoes, and assuming that he was racially abused:

Why not speak to the media?
Why not state that it was more than once so there should be video?
Why not pursue it further? especially after LFC have accused you of lying?
Why worry about the reputation of someone you perceive to be a racist?

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

Thing is Fred, you are coming into this with your mind made up, it's making you seem blinkered but that's how it is, you probably think some of us are blinkered...

Putting yourself in Evras shoes, and assuming that he was racially abused:

Why not speak to the media?
Why not state that it was more than once so there should be video?
Why not pursue it further? especially after LFC have accused you of lying?
Why worry about the reputation of someone you perceive to be a racist?

because i'd want it done right. Especially with someone like Ferguson and a club like united to fight his corner. Do you think for a single second Ferguson wanted him to run to the media with this, especially because there was no evidence as of yet, and it had the potential to backfire?

 

[Red Dreams]

because i'd want it done right. Especially with someone like Ferguson and a club like united to fight his corner. Do you think for a single second Ferguson wanted him to run to the media with this, especially because there was no evidence as of yet, and it had the potential to backfire?

SAF knows it will have to reach a very high threshold for there to be finding against Suarez.

That is why he has not officially backed Evra to pursue this. But he does respect Evra's right to do as he feels strongly about it.

 

[afrocentricity]

because i'd want it done right. Especially with someone like Ferguson and a club like united to fight his corner. Do you think for a single second Ferguson wanted him to run to the media with this, especially because there was no evidence as of yet, and it had the potential to backfire?

Fair enough, but like I said I'd have put the twat on his arse, never mind speaking about it to the media. You're only bone of contention seems to be that he made your player and your club look bad and stupid, forget the fact that he may actually be a racist and that your club may actually have called for Evra to be punished for speaking out. Don't think there is much more to say... do you?

...once completely innocent person has their reputation tarnished?

This is a gem though, are we talking about the same fella?

 

[Waltraute]

thats all well and good saying that. But why didnt Evra go and see Suarez after the game? why didnt he say to the ref at the time, why was he running to the press? two sides to this.

I simply answered the question 'What would I have done in Suarez's shoes?'

What would I have done in Evra's shoes?
Not talking to the ref I can understand completely, not wanting to break up the game with 'I said/he said' bickering which the ref is unable to resolve anyway. Regarding talking to Suarez after the game - yes, maybe I would have done that, or maybe my anger would have been such I'd rather cool off a bit. I have no idea if Evra tried to talk to him/call him. And vice versa, of course.

It's perfectly understandable that the person who percieved himself as being racially abused is extremely angry, though. Two sides, but not really comparable.

 

[gooDevil]

For every 500 or so incidents of racism, there is 1 incident of a false claim, I would say. One is quite common, the other is quite rare.

So it's surely much more likely Suarez said something racist than Evra decided to make up a claim.

It's the simpler solution and all.

 

[holdsteady]

I'm also curious to what language this was said in. is Evra multi lingual?

Evra is fluent in several languages, he and Park spoke Spanish with Tevez all the time.

 

[Instant Karma]

1. SAF's comments on the incident - "Evra is adamant to pursue it with the FA...." or something like that before he quickly started praising the supporters. He seemed to be distancing himself and the club from the incident. Surely, he would have backed his captain and condemned Suarez if he believed in Evra as much as some of you do ? Would Fergie shy away from publicly standing by his player and condemning an alleged despicable act ?

2. The racist abuse allegedly happened 10 times but there is no video footage of it

3. The racist abuse allegedly happened 10 times but no one else heard it