Missed out the key word there, but I understand.
Phil Jones
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Missed out the key word there, but I understand.
Sure Jones would be wasted in central defence?
Sure he could still bomb forward, but I'm really liking that pace in the middle at the moment.
Maybe once Cleverley is back and we get someone else to provide that pace, we can move Jones back.
For now I'd rather see him continue there.
Sure he could still bomb forward, but I'm really liking that pace in the middle at the moment.
Maybe once Cleverley is back and we get someone else to provide that pace, we can move Jones back.
For now I'd rather see him continue there.
I like that despite the view of many (on here at least) that Jones should be shunted into defence for the rest of the season, SAF has resisted that urge. I don't think anybody including SAF knows exactly what will become Jones final career position: be it centre back or in midfield.
I think its very important for his own development that he is played as a utility player this season. Given the huge amounts of learning he is absorbing all the time (evident just in what he has demonstrated to us so far this season), he needs exposure to all parts of his game so he can get better and better.
He is obviously a special talent, up there with the likes of Giggs, Rooney & Wilshire at a similar age. And so at this point in his career, its important that all parts of his games are improved further to help him develop into the potentially world class player he could become.
Im genuinely excited about him, probably as excited as I was when Giggs, Rooney and Ronaldo first emerged at the club. Personally, I think he will develop into a Robson/Keane type midfielder, he seems to have the temperament, lungs and potential skill required. And I'd prefer that, then he settle into a full time defensive role.
No doubt that his chances to shine has come perhaps too early in his Manchester United career, but he's taken the opportunities afforded to him by the scruff of the neck and shown himself to be well worthy of our shirt. Sure, he will make mistakes, or looked at another way, be constantly learning (like knowing when to pass on a lung busting run - should have passed earlier to Rooney today in 2nd half) but that comes with the territory in developing young players.
It will take a while but a spine of DDG, Smalling, Jones, Rooney and Hernandez is something we can really build off for the long term.
I think its very important for his own development that he is played as a utility player this season. Given the huge amounts of learning he is absorbing all the time (evident just in what he has demonstrated to us so far this season), he needs exposure to all parts of his game so he can get better and better.
He is obviously a special talent, up there with the likes of Giggs, Rooney & Wilshire at a similar age. And so at this point in his career, its important that all parts of his games are improved further to help him develop into the potentially world class player he could become.
Im genuinely excited about him, probably as excited as I was when Giggs, Rooney and Ronaldo first emerged at the club. Personally, I think he will develop into a Robson/Keane type midfielder, he seems to have the temperament, lungs and potential skill required. And I'd prefer that, then he settle into a full time defensive role.
No doubt that his chances to shine has come perhaps too early in his Manchester United career, but he's taken the opportunities afforded to him by the scruff of the neck and shown himself to be well worthy of our shirt. Sure, he will make mistakes, or looked at another way, be constantly learning (like knowing when to pass on a lung busting run - should have passed earlier to Rooney today in 2nd half) but that comes with the territory in developing young players.
It will take a while but a spine of DDG, Smalling, Jones, Rooney and Hernandez is something we can really build off for the long term.
I only saw the second half today but I thought he was brilliant. For a lad of his age, his stamina is immense. He never seems to stop running. I've been more impressed with him in midfield than in defence so far, but then again I missed the first few games of the season so I'll reserve judgement on his defensive capababilities for the moment.
However, in midfield he has excelled in my view. He's an intimidating force in midfield. He pressures the man on the ball into making mistakes by running full pace towards them. He can pass the ball with both feet, inside and out. (He played a delightful pass out to Valencia against Wolves today with the outside of his right foot. Simple but stunning.) His pace and strength get him into great positions for notching a few assists, he has great positional awareness in the final third and in the last two games we've seen he's capable of scoring a few goals.
He's only 19! Too excited about this lad.
However, in midfield he has excelled in my view. He's an intimidating force in midfield. He pressures the man on the ball into making mistakes by running full pace towards them. He can pass the ball with both feet, inside and out. (He played a delightful pass out to Valencia against Wolves today with the outside of his right foot. Simple but stunning.) His pace and strength get him into great positions for notching a few assists, he has great positional awareness in the final third and in the last two games we've seen he's capable of scoring a few goals.
He's only 19! Too excited about this lad.
Good post, completely agree.
Carrick is key for everyone playing in midfield tbh
Great today. Hope he ends up a midfielder. Those offensive runs carry less risk coming from midfield than the CB position.
Jones-Cleverley
Keane-Scholes
Keane-Scholes
He's a winner which is what we've been missing in central midfield.
Amazing how one game can change the attitude here, I anticipate that you were being half-serious?
Amazing how one game can change the attitude here, I anticipate that you were being half-serious?
Obviously. Nothing compares to those two.
In any case, Carrick is undroppable from our midfield at the moment.
I'd like to see the Jones-Cleverley duo given a run at some point though.
Not sure if it's defensively solid enough, Jones is a phenomenal talent but his positioning can be a bit off, he still needs to learn when to press and when to drop off.
It's the first game that Jones has really impressed me in midfield, and as much as I hate to say it but it was 'only' Wolves.
However, it certainly made me interested in perhaps seeing him there on a regular basis until Cleverley gets back, and if he can keep performing well up until then he might push himself into contention there in the future.
However, it certainly made me interested in perhaps seeing him there on a regular basis until Cleverley gets back, and if he can keep performing well up until then he might push himself into contention there in the future.
I've been trying to get that point across for ages. He's far too good on the ball to play central defense. I know you can bring up Rio and Beckenbaeur but they were not as good moving with the ball as Jones is.
Just out of interest have you ever seen Beckenbauer? He was way before my time but I suspect you may get a bit of stick for that comment.
There's getting carried away and then there's this, cw. I still see him going the Baresi route of being a very capable midfielder but being a notably better centre back.
It'll be important to see how he does in midfield alongside Cleverley or Anderson I think, because it'll obviously be a different proposition to playing alongside Carrick.
At the moment with Cleverley & Anderson injured & Fletcher dead Jones is needed in midfield however I like him at RB. Offers so much more going forward than Smalling does
well, that's a ridiculous comment, Beckenbauer was one of the most elegant players in the world, not as poweful as Jones but much more comfortable on the ball, technically wise he was magnificent
Never live. He'd retired a few years before I was born. Seen a lot of him on some old World Cup videos though.
I'm not getting carried away. I said this before today's game. With his energy to get box to box and his ability on the ball he's just not suited to being a central defender. It limits him.
That's not saying he won't be a good central defender, but I think to get the best out of him he needs a role with more freedom.
Yeh I should clarify. By running with the ball I mean taking people on and making things happen. Not in terms of controlling and stroking the ball.
beckenbauer played with a broken arm. he's the german version of chuck norris. Dont see Jones at that level quite yet cw 
Carrick, Jones and Cleverley would have a nice balance if we need to play a midfield 3. Barcelona would point and laugh at it, but I mean in general matches where we normally pick 3
real credit to Michael Carrick whose discipline and dominance sitting in the middle enabled Jones to break forward the way he did.....
still think Cleverley will be a better partner to Carrick though
Jones Carrick and Cleverley could be a very strong trio to play in the tougher games
still think Cleverley will be a better partner to Carrick though
Jones Carrick and Cleverley could be a very strong trio to play in the tougher games
I personally think he'll flourish once he gains a bit more discipline, at the moment he's just going out there and playing his own game but once he learns a bit of control I think it'll elevate his game rather than hinder it. No-one can say either way on that front so you're free to your opinion, the 'carried away' comment was about Beckenbauer. He strode forward with the ball beautifully and ghosted past players effortlessly, from what I've seen of him. Saying Jones is a better ball-carrier is the same as a Barca player saying Pique's a better passer (which did happen in the newbies, amazingly).
Jones looks like he could be that true box-to-box midfielder we've been missing since Keane. I'm not comparing them directly, just saying Jones has the engine, defense and creativity to flourish in a 442.
He'll need to continue to improve, but I can see him and Cleverley forming a long term partnership in a 442.
He'll need to continue to improve, but I can see him and Cleverley forming a long term partnership in a 442.
In 3 years time, Jones/Cleverly could be a like for like replacement for Keane/Scholes. By then Valencia, Nani & Young should have reached the peak of their powers and be able to deliver world class performances week in week out. Its not that far away, but there is basis for huge optimism for our midfield in the medium term to be as good as we have ever had. Yes, there are many if and buts that need to be overcome for that to happen but any purchases or strengthening we make in midfield in the meantime MUST NOT impede this medium term plan to solidify.
I think that is part of SAFs dilemma about the midfield right now. Basically, SAF rightly expected Anderson to step up this year but his injury has wiped that plan. Its so hard to be a manager, especially at our club with all the expectations .... and managing the short term thirst for constant and immediate glory whilst at the same time laying the foundations to ensure medium term consistency. But I'd far rather 'develop/transition' for 18 months and so be well positioned for the next 5 years after that, then go boom and bust and buy short term solutions.
The best scenario for us in January would be to find a 'Larson' like loan as midfield enhancement for a few months. We loan other clubs enough players .... about time somebody coughed up and gave us one of their players for a few months. That answer is not David Beckham btw, much as some would like! Maybe Shitty can loan us Hargreaves back?!
I think that is part of SAFs dilemma about the midfield right now. Basically, SAF rightly expected Anderson to step up this year but his injury has wiped that plan. Its so hard to be a manager, especially at our club with all the expectations .... and managing the short term thirst for constant and immediate glory whilst at the same time laying the foundations to ensure medium term consistency. But I'd far rather 'develop/transition' for 18 months and so be well positioned for the next 5 years after that, then go boom and bust and buy short term solutions.
The best scenario for us in January would be to find a 'Larson' like loan as midfield enhancement for a few months. We loan other clubs enough players .... about time somebody coughed up and gave us one of their players for a few months. That answer is not David Beckham btw, much as some would like! Maybe Shitty can loan us Hargreaves back?!
He's incredible, like seriously, fecking hell!..I honestly think he has all the tools to be an incredible midfielder tbh.
To be fair he has played fewest games as a center half since his move. Mainly a right back or a midfielder, I think we might eventually convert him into one of these although I honestly hope we don't.
The future is looking up. This could be our team for a very long time:
De Gea
Rafael Smalling Evans Fabio
Jones Cleverley
Nani Rooney Morrison
Chicharito
Rafael Smalling Evans Fabio
Jones Cleverley
Nani Rooney Morrison
Chicharito
What a vital signing he has been
Has had to fill in at RB when Rafael and Smalling were injured. Played CB and now is filling in in midfield when we have so many injuries.
Proper footballer.. Very impressive
Has had to fill in at RB when Rafael and Smalling were injured. Played CB and now is filling in in midfield when we have so many injuries.
Proper footballer.. Very impressive
Can see him becoming a great box to box midfielder - making his surging runs, linking up play and doing a job in defense, he has a bit of everything. Can argue he isn't as technical or creative as others, but as shown yesterday he is perfectly capable of picking out teammates who are in space.
Saying that, with vidic out I imagine he will be playing more in defense for the rest of the season. Personally I don't mind player being shifted about a bit - fergie obviously wouldnt do it if he thought it would be detrimental to the players development, and playing in different positions helps players like jones hone different skills and positional awareness of not just himself but the players around him in a match.
Saying that, with vidic out I imagine he will be playing more in defense for the rest of the season. Personally I don't mind player being shifted about a bit - fergie obviously wouldnt do it if he thought it would be detrimental to the players development, and playing in different positions helps players like jones hone different skills and positional awareness of not just himself but the players around him in a match.
I still think right back is his best position. All his best games have come from there but he was brilliant last night as well.
I don't really care where he plays, as long as he plays.
ATM he is one of our most important players and should be played as long as he is fit.
ATM he is one of our most important players and should be played as long as he is fit.
O'Shea was decent anywhere on the pitch. Jones looks to be the same only he's able to be great anywhere he plays. Dont seem to be particulary poor at anything really
He is only 19, has only been here five minutes, has not played in a settled team or in a set position, but is a genuine asset to the team and very influential. I love this kid. I was delighted we signed him in the summer but did not expect him to have such a big impact so early. Great start to his United career.
Seems his nickname is Glen Quagmire among the squad.
@WayneRooney
Great win yesterday after a bad week. Much needed. @Ph1lj0nes aka glen quagmire was brilliant in midfield
@WayneRooney
Great win yesterday after a bad week. Much needed. @Ph1lj0nes aka glen quagmire was brilliant in midfield
I gotta say I think Jones could bring a sort of mini renaissance of the libero role. So many teams go with only 1 or even nobody up front it leaves a defender spare and if you play one very defensive midfielder the libero centre half could really wreak havoc if used well.
That's been out of necessity though - the squad is full of good CB's but injuries have meant holes in the team that Jones is able to fill.
He's also looked very slightly green at CB so I imagine that SAF is in no particular hurry to play him there at this point and content to give him playing time at United elsewhere in the team.
I don't think there's any doubt he'll end up as a great CB and the experiences he's had this season will make him a more rounded player.
I do think this is screwing his chances of playing at CB at Euro 2012 though - will be interesting to see how Capello resolves it, as all of a sudden England are all set in midfield and RB yet need quick, fit centre halves.
I don't think Jones could single-handedly bring it back, players like Thiago Silva and co. have been doing what he's doing now for the past few years though and been doing it very effectively, along with players like Busquets showing how adept they are at dropping back into defence, so there's definitely more and more people starting to believe there's a place for this role in the modern game.
Pique's another central defender who does a lot of good work in and around the opposition box.