No not you, twas a good post. Just this whole thread of conjecture. Gonna leave it for a couple of weeks!
Luka Modric / Signs for Real Madrid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I don't think anyone doesn't want Modric, it's just priorities. Ideally we would bring forward next Summer's transfer kitty and get the two midfielders we need in (potentially at the detriment of Scholes and Giggs not playing much, which shouldn't be an issue).
Unfortunately that makes too much sense for the moneymen and it may leave us overstocked if suddenly Fletcher, Ando and Clev find fitness and form.
But then, that would be a great "problem" to have next Summer.
What I find funny is I had never, ever, seen the term regista used on the caf until it was used by Sacchi in the article from the op.
Suddenly everyone is banging on about it, while we still can't agree on what a DM does
It's all very well using these poncy terms but it helps to know what they mean.
I remember when people played in midfield.
That's when you had a midfield, old timer.
This is all Jonathan fecking Wilson's fault.
Amen.
Harsh, but fair.
There's a separate thread on the demise of the box-to-box midfielder, the op has an article which quotes Sacchi talking about registas, cue proliferation of the term.
It's an Italian term from the arts which refers to the producer/orchestrator. In Italian football: the deep-lying playmaker. To its credit, it's short, but you can always say DLP and everyone will get it.
Forget midfielder, how about describing Modric as an inside left? And give him the number 10 shirt just to emphasise it.
Not a bad idea, and Carrick can go back to being a wing half with the No.4 shirt,
Word.
Glaston comes by to remind us that Levy is a bastard to negotiate with.
Any chance you guys get Adebayor?
Seems he's unwilling to take a lower wage from what I can tell, hard to see Levy being willing to pay what he'll cost, with his stubborn approach to negotiating. The internet suggests he has 2 years left on a 170,000 a week deal.
He seems a perfect match, can't see you guys getting back into the top 4 without him, or some sort of Papiss Cisse like gold strike with a transfer target.
I remember when we had defense, halfbacks and forwards, no such thing as 'midfield'.
Indeed.Not that we should splash the cash when we have someone up and coming.
But with Carrick as our only reliable and reasonably aged midfielder (i.e. not injury prone), when we have a 3 man midfield..
Cleverley could play any of those 3 positions.
He'll get game time.
Even if we sign Modric and keep Anderson and Fletcher etc.
I'd suggest it's because of Championship/Football Manager, Pro Evo and FIFA that the term inside left/right has dropped out of the lexicon even though it's such a fine term to describe any number of players, particularly members of the three in a 4-2-3-1.
Surely the reason Modric is so appealing is that he's a creative player that can contribute from deep while holding his own defensively, allowing you to get offense from a position usually consigned to more defensive players.
We have more than enough players that are best as inside forwards, left or right.
We have more than enough players that are best as inside forwards, left or right.
I really don't know what you are trying to prove. You are taking people to task over the definition of DM, regista whatever! The bottom line is most people agree that any of the names mentioned would be able to do the job in front of the back 4. Except Modric.
You seem to be the only poster who believes he could screen our back 4 effectively in the absence of Carrick. What i find particularly ironic is how you criticise other peoples reasons for wanting certain players, and the suggestion of the job they could do, whilst in the same breath putting Modric forward as being able to effectively screen our back 4, despite there being very no evidence that he has ever even performed a role remotely like that.Do you not see the contradiction in that?
Whether you agree or not that the likes of Scweinsteiger or Sahin should be classed in a certain category, the bottom line is it is widely accepted they have shown themselves to be far more complete midfielders, showing the verasatility to be able to perform and fulfill a variety of roles, which has led to them being reasonably deemed effective doing that.
Is that really the case with Modric?
Modric is also the only one of those players who requires a limited destroyer, or protector next to him in his club role. Surely if he was as effective as you propose defensively, then Parker next to him would appear to be severe overkill.
I remember when we had just attackers and defenders. None if this fullbacks, centrebacks, wingers, central midfielders crap.
And what's this nonsese of registas and triquestas crap going about these days?
You clearly don't watxh him play for Bayern or Germany very much.
I'm referring to it because its the most recent example of him playing the role. The season before Gustavo arrived at Bayern he did it for an extended period. Anyone who thinks he needs the likes of Gustavo alongside him in midfield clearly doesn't follow him very closely.
I already addressed this earlier. The champions league final was a classic example of him playing Gustavo's role without being restricted in his attacking play. This idea you have that player like him can't do what a Gustavo does sans being restricted is baseless.
Scholes, Xavi?
Come on.
I clearly talked of players who can actually hold their own defensively.
Players like Busquets, Wilshere, Carrick, Schweinstieger, Redondo, Guardiola, Moutinho. Players who's attacking play is not diminished by protecting their defence and who's play is not restricted by anchoring a midfield.
I don't. I'm using the term loosely. Players like Keane and Vieira used to control the midfield from further back than the traditional playmaker who played behind the strikers all the time. That is why I used the term on them.
In the strictest sense they were obviously not true registas.
Fergie. Sign a fecking midfielder.
Cheers.
Andy
Cheers.
Andy
Too much talk of him going to Real to be bullshit. May as well give up on him m'afraid. We'd have to pay top dollar to convince Spurs to sell him to us now and I don't think that will happen.
Frustrating, another one bites the dust.
Frustrating, another one bites the dust.
So do people still think this signing will happen for United? A couple of weeks ago I thought it was ON, now I'm not so sure.
If he goes to madrid surely that means sahin is leaving? I'd take him as well
Its up to Modric. Given Redknapp's sacking and talk of AVB coming for a "project" at Spurs, I'd say Modric has a good deal more leverage to force a move this summer compared to 12 months ago. If Mourinho is legitimately interested, I'd say he's Madrid's to lose... especially given that they will pay him inflated wages and give Spurs a bit more money for the transfer than we would.
Modric could easily do that role.
You seem to be taking your argument from Harry's "tactics", which is highly disengeuos. Harry is old school, he doesn't think a player is defending if they aren't chasing shadows, which also makes him a blithering idiot.
Who's Croatia's destroyer?
I'm not trying to prove anything, I suggested we have no need for a defensive midfielder. Which we don't. And yes I feel it is necessary to differentiate between a defensive midfielder and a deep-lying playmaker, as they are different roles. Both can sit in front of a defense, but only one role has a primary task of screening the back four.
I've already explained to you how Modric contributes defensively. He is a deep-lying playmaker who maintains possession and uses the ball effectively, finds space, very creative and dictates team play. His positional play and appreciation of space are top-notch. Possessing these attributes helps a team defensively as they have more of the ball and it's used well, hence relieving pressure. If you actually look back you will see I merely stated if Modric replaced Carrick "so be it" he is good enough to do that, which he is. I never advocated it! It's obvious as a regista he would be able to display his full abilities with Carrick next to him.
Far more complete midfielders? In what way is this then?
You might be surprised.
Schweinsteiger, Modric, Pirlo, Xavi, Alonso. These players ideally require hard working midfielders around them to truly shine as best they can. They are all competent defensively as all deep-lying playmakers should be, but they require space to dictate proceedings.
It'd be suicidal playing Modric in a 2 man midfield against anyone half decent, unless he had someone defensively minded like Carrick alongside him.
This would not be the case with Alonso and Schweinsteiger, but would equally be the case also with Xavi or Pirlo.
This would not be the case with Alonso and Schweinsteiger, but would equally be the case also with Xavi or Pirlo.
As a general rule that may be correct, but not with us. Carrick is our DLP and his main job is to screen our back 4. What i disagree with is your claim that almost anybody who plays as a deep lying playmaker can effectively screen a back 4. I don't agree with that. Anyone can screen a back 4, but can they do so effectively and consistently? I question Modric's ability to fulfill that role, as i would ask the same question of Scholes or Fabregas.
Yes i know how he contributes defensively, and i agree with your view about possession helping a team defensively. What i don't agree with is the 'so be it'. For me that is insufficient. For what we would spend on Modric, i say would be better spent on a Sahin. Someone who can run games when they are not going our way. Sahin can also pass like Scholes, screen like Carrick and control the tempo of games like Modric. He may not be as graceful as Modric doing so, but he is a proven winner at Dortmund, and after a tough year there, may be available much cheaper.
In the way that they have performed various types of roles with various partners. In some games they will play a more defensive role, in others they will play alongside somebody more defenisve than they and fufill a different role but still effectively. I don't see that with Modric. For me he is just a playmaker, a very good one, but that is all i see im afraid. you may disagree and that's your choice, but i have never once seen him play alongside someone more attacking than he and fulfill that role. He reminds me of Veron, who played deep, but was never effective on his own defensively. That is why he was played next to a Simeone, Cambiasso or Mascherano. Could he play instead of them and still be effective defensively? For me no. Not his game, and a waste of his talents. Same with Modric, if we buy him i want him playing next to someone who can give him what he needs to excel. If Carrick gets injured he won't have that, and that's my concern.
I love surprises!
Listen, I have never been one to hang on to a theory just to save face. If we bought Modric and he turned out to be everything you suggest he may be, then fantastic. I would be delighted not pissed off that i have been proven wrong.All i want is someone who can do Carrick's job if he is out. I see that role as vitally important to our team, and anyone we buy who will improve our options there will be more than welcome imo.
Again i wouldn't argue with that. But my argument has been not about truly shining all the time, it is about them being able to occasionally be the most defensive player in the midfield, without it being detrimental to the effectiveness of the team. I don't think many would argue there would surely be quite a difference in effectiveness between having Alonso as our most defensive mid screening our back 4, as opposed to a Xavi or Pirlo.
Yep, he might well regista for them this summer.
The thing is I can't see Real spunking 35-40M euros and big wages on Modric. It's the sort of figure reserved to a Galactico signing, not for a squad player, which is all I can see him being for Madrid.
For that sort of money Madrid can pick 2-3 top young talents from other clubs in the league. The moment Madrid come in for someone in Spain the selling club is fighting a losing battle, particularly these days when they are all up to their ears in debt, cannot offer wage improvement, some even go months without paying wages and an eventual free would be catastrophic.
feck it, they can get Martínez, to name one. I don't see what would possess Mourinho to spend big bucks on someone who isn't quite his sort of player and for whom one of the great assets is being "Premiership proven".
Further, they are releasing Gago, Diarra and Carvalho so I would expect him to focus his transfer efforts elsewhere.
Sound reasoning. I hope we at least have a go at signing Modric, he's made for United.
feck Madrid and their beautiful women, weather, stadium etc. Come to United, Luka!
Not bad. I'm surprised it took so long.
this.
While his tackling isn't his strong suit, the way some people talk about Modric, you'd think he has an Ibrahimovic-like attitude towards defending and tracking back, which clearly isn't the case. Modric does work hard defensively, and we'd have someone in the team that can come close to replicating what Scholes does for us. In 90% of our games we'd be fine with a midfield 2 of Carrick and Modric, like we were fine with a midfield 2 of Carrick and Scholes last season, and in the games we wouldn't be okay, we'd be using a 3 man midfield anyway.
Even though Real Madrid don't really need him, if they are interested he'll probably go there. It isn't the first time Real Madrid have spent big money on players that they didn't need and he certainly won't be the last. It's not like Real Madrid won't buy someone this summer.
Even though Real Madrid don't really need him, if they are interested he'll probably go there. It isn't the first time Real Madrid have spent big money on players that they didn't need and he certainly won't be the last. It's not like Real Madrid won't buy someone this summer.
Real Madrid have more chance of selling Ronaldo next summer than entertaining thoughts of buying Luka Modric i reckon
We're not sayin he couldn't play with carrick, they'd be a great combo, we're saying the only player in our squad that would allow modric to really play his best, and in the same way allow the likes of scholes, ando etc to influence the game the most is carrick. The need for another defensively good midfielder who can come in for carrick and alongside in some games is more urgent than the need for another creative player.
I disagree with the last part. I think that we're in need of a creative centre mid a lot more than a defensive minded one.