Luka Modric / Signs for Real Madrid

Cheesy said:
Personally, from what I've seen, I think he could add a creative aspect to our midfield that we're currently lacking, but most importantly of all, I think he could also be the answer to our high pressure problems too which have plagued us at times. Admittedly, what I've seen on him is quite limited though in comparison to Modric who I feel like I can make a full judgement on.

I just don't trust Jones as a midfielder though. He's the perfect example of what is wrong with British midfielders in a way: a lack of ability to play there, but praised for working hard and running around like a headless chicken. He has no positional sense, something that Carrick is good with as well when he's in the centre of midfield.
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Jones isnt a midfielder though, he's just been deployed there occasionally. I wouldnt trust him in a midfield role either which is why i want us to sign a player there.

Regarding Martinez, i dont think we'l sign him, not now anyways. He's just very similar to Carrick i believe. SAF wouldnt play the 2 of them together. Modric would be a great fit to partner Carrick but as i said, it'd be incredible if we went into the season without any cover for Carrick. If we want to compete on all fronts, that'l be just stupid.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Jones isnt a midfielder though, he's just been deployed there occasionally. I wouldnt trust him in a midfield role either which is why i want us to sign a player there.

Regarding Martinez, i dont think we'l sign him, not now anyways. He's just very similar to Carrick i believe. SAF wouldnt play the 2 of them together. Modric would be a great fit to partner Carrick but as i said, it'd be incredible if we went into the season without any cover for Carrick. If we want to compete on all fronts, that'l be just stupid.
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He isn't a midfielder, but some people seem to have a bizarre belief that he'll materialise into one and that he's going to be a Roy Keane-esque player when he hits his prime, when the reality is that he lacks the technical ability to play for us in the midfield. It only bothers me because a lot of people expect that to be where he'll play.

I doubt we'll get Martinez either, but personally, if I could have a choice of any top player who we could have any sort of realistic chance of getting, then it would be Martinez as even though his transfer is unlikely, it's not completely out of question.
 
Cheesy said:
He isn't a midfielder, but some people seem to have a bizarre belief that he'll materialise into one and that he's going to be a Roy Keane-esque player when he hits his prime, when the reality is that he lacks the technical ability to play for us in the midfield. It only bothers me because a lot of people expect that to be where he'll play.

I doubt we'll get Martinez either, but personally, if I could have a choice of any top player who we could have any sort of realistic chance of getting, then it would be Martinez as even though his transfer is unlikely, it's not completely out of question.
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He's very young though. Has a lot of time on his hands. I do think that he could become a good box to box midfielder given the right guidance and patience, he has the tools. Dont see it happening though, think he'l end up in defense eventually.
 
Varun_Utd said:
He's very young though. Has a lot of time on his hands. I do think that he could become a good box to box midfielder given the right guidance and patience, he has the tools. Dont see it happening though, think he'l end up in defense eventually.
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I disagree. His strengths lie in defence. I just don't think he has the technical ability to make it as a midfielder for us. People think he would make a good box-to-box midfielder because he has a lot of energy and runs around a lot. The fact is that even the best box-to-box midfielders need to have enough technical ability to play in midfield for the level they're playing at. I don't think that's the case for Jones, and he shouldn't be playing there when you consider that he could potentially make a fantastic defender anyway. For me, he's wasted completely in the midfield.
 
Again, as far as technique goes I don't really agree. His control of the ball and ability to turn into space are good, he can run with the ball, and I remember him doing little flicks that surprised me this season. It's more his passing and positioning that don't look like a midfielder's to me.
 
Plechazunga said:
Again, as far as technique goes I don't really agree. His control of the ball and ability to turn into space are good, he can run with the ball, and I remember him doing little flicks that surprised me this season. It's more his passing and positioning that don't look like a midfielder's to me.
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I wouldn't say he's 'bad' technically. Actually, for a defender he's fairly good and better than most in the league, but in comparison to most defenders I just don't think he's got great technique, or enough needed to make it there. He's more of an example of an old fashioned British players who works hard in the midfield but isn't known for his technique, which isn't what we need in my opinion.
 
Plechazunga said:
Again, as far as technique goes I don't really agree. His control of the ball and ability to turn into space are good, he can run with the ball, and I remember him doing little flicks that surprised me this season. It's more his passing and positioning that don't look like a midfielder's to me.
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Constantly stranded in no man's land.
 
Cheesy said:
I disagree. His strengths lie in defence. I just don't think he has the technical ability to make it as a midfielder for us. People think he would make a good box-to-box midfielder because he has a lot of energy and runs around a lot. The fact is that even the best box-to-box midfielders need to have enough technical ability to play in midfield for the level they're playing at. I don't think that's the case for Jones, and he shouldn't be playing there when you consider that he could potentially make a fantastic defender anyway. For me, he's wasted completely in the midfield.
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Whats wrong with his technique?
 
Varun_Utd said:
Whats wrong with his technique?
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He's just not exactly a brilliant passer of the ball, while his close control isn't great either. It's not awful, but it's not brilliant either and our actual midfielders are generally all better footballers than him technically. There's nothing wrong with that though considering he is actually a defender though. It's just the fact that several people have said in the past that they think he'll eventually be a midfielder for us here.
 
Cheesy said:
He's just not exactly a brilliant passer of the ball, while his close control isn't great either. It's not awful, but it's not brilliant either and our actual midfielders are generally all better footballers than him technically. There's nothing wrong with that though considering he is actually a defender though. It's just the fact that several people have said in the past that they think he'll eventually be a midfielder for us here.
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I dont think any of our current midfielders are brilliant passers of the ball really. None except Scholes and he'l be gone soon.

Also, if he played as a box to box midfielder, he wont really need to be great at threading passes through the needle or need to play 50 yard diagonals. He certainly isnt bad with the ball at his feet so i dont see why he cant develop with age.

Not saying he'l end up as a midfielder, just that his lack of technical ability isnt whats going to stop him.
 
Varun_Utd said:
I dont think any of our current midfielders are brilliant passers of the ball really. None except Scholes and he'l be gone soon.
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Carrick's a pretty fecking good passer of the ball. He's not going to give you a hundred defence-splitting balls in a season, but he plays plenty that bisect the midfield and find a forward in a good position, and he doesn't give it away much.
 
Plechazunga said:
Carrick's a pretty fecking good passer of the ball. He's not going to give you a hundred defence-splitting balls in a season, but he plays plenty that bisect the midfield and find a forward in a good position, and he doesn't give it away much.
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He's usually alright but I was watching him with a critical eye last season, from what I remember (admittedly not much) it seemed like everyone else had trouble controlling the ball when Carrick passed it to them, like he was putting way too much topspin on it or something.
 
Varun_Utd said:
I dont think any of our current midfielders are brilliant passers of the ball really. None except Scholes and he'l be gone soon.

Also, if he played as a box to box midfielder, he wont really need to be great at threading passes through the needle or need to play 50 yard diagonals. He certainly isnt bad with the ball at his feet so i dont see why he cant develop with age.

Not saying he'l end up as a midfielder, just that his lack of technical ability isnt whats going to stop him.
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Carrick is a good passer of the ball, while Giggs can be too when he pulls off those killer passes that he has a slightly annoying tendency to always go for.

The idea that Jones would make it into our team ahead of more technically gifted players because he works hard and runs around a lot would show what is wrong with the typical British mentality in all honesty.
 
I haven't seen anyone who is sure that Jones will end up being a midfielder, but my stance is that he can do a job there as cover for Carrick when needed.

People are saying it would be madness to go into next season without cover for Carrick, I say it is madness to a far higher degree to go into next season without a suitable partner for Carrick. Also, it would be madness to spend a lot of money on a player in a similar role to Carrick (like Martinez) when....you guessed it....we already have Carrick.

"Cover for Carrick" means exactly that. Not a first choice midfielder and not someone we spunk a huge amount of money on.
Jones is a young player whose primary position is one we are well stocked in. Having him play in midfield in cups, against weaker teams or IF Carrick gets injured (and he isn't the most injury prone player) is a great option to have, and I really don't see us needing another defensive minded midfielder on top of that.
 
How is jones great back up for carrick? If anything his performances last year showed how far away he is from being able to do that role. He showed no awareness or discipline. The only reason he worked is cause he had carrick helping and covering for him.

And that to me is our problem, all the midfielders we have need a carrick. Scholes and giggs need the protection he gives, ando and clev need him to help out because they're still learning about playing there.

If we've given up on clev and ando staying fit then we need two midfielders one more disciplined and one creator but if we still are looking to use then more often then not then that's not an issue. What is an issue is that each on of them is going to need the protection carrick gives in most games. Sure in some games they could get away without him but I think he'll be needed in most.

and whilst that's the case we need cover for him and an alternative. Ssomeone who can come in instead of an ando, clev or scholes in games where we need to be more solid. We've got plenty of creative players, getting them fit is the issue. We have only one player who can do carricks role to a high level and he might never play again let alone get back to that level.
 
Plechazunga said:
Carrick's a pretty fecking good passer of the ball. He's not going to give you a hundred defence-splitting balls in a season, but he plays plenty that bisect the midfield and find a forward in a good position, and he doesn't give it away much.
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Cheesy said:
Carrick is a good passer of the ball, while Giggs can be too when he pulls off those killer passes that he has a slightly annoying tendency to always go for.

The idea that Jones would make it into our team ahead of more technically gifted players because he works hard and runs around a lot would show what is wrong with the typical British mentality in all honesty.
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Carrick's good, not brilliant. Brilliant is someone like Scholes or a Pirlo or a Xavi. Thats why i said Jones's lack of brilliance when it comes to passing the ball isnt likely to hold him back from getting into our midfield, we arent really blessed in the area as it is.

Cheesy, again, as i said, i dont know whether he'l end up in midfield. He might not. Just that i dont think he needs to be brilliant at passing the ball to make it there. Also, he isnt all about running a lot. Certainly doesnt have as polished a game as a Carrick, but look at his age. I really do think he can become whatever he wants if given the time and guidance. He certainly doesnt stand out as a CB so i dunno why you're sure he'l be brilliant there and certain to fail as a CM.

I personally am quite willing to be patient and flexible with the lad and willing to see him become whatever he can. But unless he improves his sense of positioning and his awareness drastically, i dont see him as cover for Carrick for next season. that'd be disastrous.
 
carrick is better than a 'good' passer. no one has ever said he has the passing talent of pirlo, xavi, scholes, iniesta, alonso. but he's better than just 'good'.

the issue i have with carrick is if his dribbling ability was half that of his passing ability, he wouldn't be affected when being put under pressure as much as he would be able to create his own escape valve rather than constantly having to find a pass out due to an inability to dribble out of it.
 
It's hard to learn the centre midfield position though. To play there for United you have to (or rather, should have to) be one of the top ten or twenty CMs in the world. It's a big ask for him to not only learn the position, but learn it to that level, even at 19. But I hope you're right.
 
Plechazunga said:
It's hard to learn the centre midfield position though. To play there for United you have to (or rather, should have to) be one of the top ten or twenty CMs in the world. It's a big ask for him to not only learn the position, but learn it to that level, even at 19. But I hope you're right.
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I'm not saying he'll ever learn how to play midfield, but at 19 he's plenty of time to learn where to put himself and who best to pass to.
 
Sir A1ex said:
Oh, I do love popping into these threads to see how our chances of signing Modric have progressed, just to find a Carrick v Jones debate.
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Not been following the thread. However, if someone is comparing Carrick to Jones they need help.
 
The Neviller said:
I'm not saying he'll ever learn how to play midfield, but at 19 he's plenty of time to learn where to put himself and who best to pass to.
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He just doesn't look like a midfielder. Maybe an old fashioned sweeper would be closest he would get to establishing himself ahead of the back four. He is definitely a future centre-half.
 
Walrus said:
I haven't seen anyone who is sure that Jones will end up being a midfielder, but my stance is that he can do a job there as cover for Carrick when needed.

People are saying it would be madness to go into next season without cover for Carrick, I say it is madness to a far higher degree to go into next season without a suitable partner for Carrick. Also, it would be madness to spend a lot of money on a player in a similar role to Carrick (like Martinez) when....you guessed it....we already have Carrick.

"Cover for Carrick" means exactly that. Not a first choice midfielder and not someone we spunk a huge amount of money on.
Jones is a young player whose primary position is one we are well stocked in. Having him play in midfield in cups, against weaker teams or IF Carrick gets injured (and he isn't the most injury prone player) is a great option to have, and I really don't see us needing another defensive minded midfielder on top of that.
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I think this is what will happen, we're not going to sign another midfielder. Jones would need games, and if Evans, Smalling, Ferdinand, and Vidic are back he's not going to get any games in defence. I feel Rafael would be our first choice right back next season. The only position available would be in midfield
 
Sultan said:
He just doesn't look like a midfielder. Maybe an old fashioned sweeper would be closest he would get to establishing himself ahead of the back four. He is definitely a future centre-half.
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but being realistic, if we are short for cash, and we have a choice of either a modric or 'carrick cover', we should prioritise the 'modric type' option.
 
apotheosis said:
They are not really our only creative options though. In midfield yes, but we have wingers and strikers as well as Kagawa, who provide lots of creativity and goal threat. So you are working on the fact we need Modric to boost our creative options in midfield, but forgetting how much we already have up front and in wide areas.
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By creative I didn't just mean assists, I meant in bringing the ball to the forward players you mention. Our best football over the last two seasons has seen Carrick paired with that type of CM, and Modric would finally give us a young top class one, as opposed to having to rely mostly on Scholes and Giggs.

Most likely be first choice? :lol: He's the only fecking choice atm, and that's the worry!

'Cover for Carrick' has now become a bit of a catchphrase, and doesn't really define what we should be looking for. We actually need an alternative to Carrick, someone of equal quality at least. The idea we have to sign someone like Modric or Sneijder to improve creativity or help us control games is wrong imo. We could also sign a Sahin, Martinez, Alonso or a Schweinsteiger type, who would not only give us the added defensive option we need, but also be perfectly adept in keeping possession, while still able to contribute significantly in attack.

That is what we need imo. A player like that would be of far more benefit, and to acquire a player of that quality, we would only be spending a similar amount to what we would have to pay for Modric.
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Modric is very useful defensively as well as in attack, he is not just an AM. I mean sure if we could get Schweinstieger then great, but Martinez and Carrick makes for a fairly slow duo with very similar qualities, not that he'd be a likely buy either.

We need someone to be a regular starter with Carrick to do what Scholes and Giggs did but at least 10 years younger. Then get in a younger, cheaper cover for Carrick who can become his successor imo.
 
Whats the cafe's opinion on Diarra? He just turned 27 and could he be a good backup for Carrick over the next 5 years?
 
If we do get our hands on modric, it is time to go R2D2 and we would line up something like this.

Forward 6 -

------------------------Welbeck------------------------


---Kaggy---------------Rooney---------------Nani--------



------------Modric--------------Carrick-------------------


:drool:
 
Ash_G said:
How is jones great back up for carrick? If anything his performances last year showed how far away he is from being able to do that role. He showed no awareness or discipline. The only reason he worked is cause he had carrick helping and covering for him.
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unfortunately we are not man city and cannot afford to have 3 world class players for every position on the pitch.

Carrick is one of our fittest (ie least injured) players, it would be foolish to buy another player to compete with him for his position and be left with subpar options to play alongside him. Jones may not be a brilliant midfielder, but between him, Anderson, Cleverley, Modric and Scholes they would be more than capable of picking up the 10 games or so where Carrick may be unavailable.

In an ideal world yes, we sign several midfielders and give that entire section of the team an overhaul, but that isn't going to happen and if we are resigned to signing just the one CM this summer then for me, Modric is the standout option (aside from Schweinsteiger but that's not going to happen).
 
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