Exactly. That is the question. Really baffled.
Fergie's obsession with picking old players in midfield
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Exactly. That is the question. Really baffled.
Sentimental reasons.Giggs' final season and he has to give him some big matches because the decision to play cannot be based on footballing reasons no matter what will be said by SAF during interviews
Urgh, he might be good offensively but he's a liability defensively and considering our defensive injuries, I would suggest it's not a wonderful idea to be picking a CM who can't defend. Same issue applies to Carrick for what its worth, he was shocking in his defensive duties 1st half. Just terrible, at least Scholes has age as an excuse.
Scholes and Giggs will start the league games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and City. Spurs away, too.
You just know it.
You just know it.
I just want to see anderson and cleverley play together, is it too much to ask?? 
I just want to see anderson and cleverley play together, is it too much to ask??
Yes, by the looks of it
Newcastle away next week. They have the exact same midfield that shat on us last year. Lets see if it's a case of lesson learnt.
& I expect us to lose almost all of them if they do.
A Newcastle United midfield bossing a Manchester United midfield. Apart from last year , I can't remember the last time it happened so comprehensively. Another match we were atrocious in
D'ya know what, the really really sad thing is, you're completely right.
We have a team, and a squad, that imho has the potential to destroy many teams. Pace, power, skill, flair, its got it all. But, for some reason, we seem to be holding it back. Putting out these conservative line ups that cater for the opposition. Rather then let the opposition worry about how they're gonna deal with us. We spend the whole time worrying about how we're gonna deal with them.
We had a team last year who could have got a point at City but instead we played a ridiculous team set up for a draw and got sweet FA
I was just saying the other day to my mates that our current squad is about the level of AC Milan a few years ago, when they relied on all their older players. We've fallen off the pace big time here.I'm hoping with two completely different performances in either half (granted in the second we had no more to lose) that Ferguson saw Giggs AND Scholes should not both start. I honestly don't think we 'need' both their experience in games. Rooney, Rio, Evra, Carrick and even Rafael for example have been here long enough to know what it takes to start games well and see us through. Near the end of a sketchy game I can understand, with the other team being tired Giggs/Scholes energy (or lack of) won't be an issue at that time of the game and they can calm us.
I remember years ago when Fergie talked about the young lads around 1996, saying how young players don't show fear - from certaint opponents, for instance - while older players may do that. It's absurd really because only last year we started a season with Cleverley and Welbeck as regulars, but it's as if he's lost his nerve a little when it comes to giving younger lads a chance. I mean, Giggs and Scholes together, again?
I don't know who Kelvin is, but I bet he wouldn't pick Scholes, Carrick and Giggs in the same team, and then not understand why teams keep running freely at our back four whenever we push any further up the pitch than our own penalty area...or think that pinging the exact same ball out to the wing over and over in order to lump blind crosses into the box somehow consitutes penetrative central midfield play.
He wont, and even so, why did it need today's game to be learned? It's not a lesson that even requires learning.
this footballer is 38 years old, is it a good idea to play him in a role that requires him to be the fittest and sharpest player on the pitch for 90 minutes, and then put a 39 year old in the team next to him?
Please select from options below:
a) no, of course not, I'm not a moron
b) "experience will get us through"
Let me guess what happened today...we passed the ball around slowly, then Spurs got it, and ran forwards, and there was mysteriously this giant gap between our midfield and defence all the time for them to run into? We then either dropped back onto the edge of our own box and ceded possession, or just conceded loads of chances.
I reckon after taking Giggs off, we then tried to get back into the game by passing the ball around in front of SPurs a lot, and having Scholes knock it out wide for us to lump loads of aimless crosses in from the right?
and now Scholes will receive MOTM plaudits for his array of actually almost completely pointless passes out wide and causing our midfield to not function effectively at all.
Here's another point...for all the excuses about Cleverley and Anderson being too open defensively to play together, I reckon Scholes and Carrick are actually more open defensively than those two are. Especially with Carrick playing worse now than when he was getting all that unfair stick a year or so back.
I also feel sorry for Giggs being made into the scapegoat...he's not finished at all. It's just that Ferguson keeps asking him to play roles he can't possibly play.
I'm baffled by it. I'm always critical of Fergie but he's getting such basic stuff so very, very wrong.
I also feel sorry for Giggs being made into the scapegoat...he's not finished at all. It's just that Ferguson keeps asking him to play roles he can't possibly play.
I'm baffled by it. I'm always critical of Fergie but he's getting such basic stuff so very, very wrong.
Carrick was outstanding in the second half, which made his joke first half display even more frustrating.
Actually Scholes was brilliant and the pointless passes weren't coming from him but others also you don't seem to be guessing anything instead it seems you've been reading the Caf and taken points made from other posters. The problem was not so much gaps as it was lack of pace and delegation in the First Half, we were actually excellent for about 20 mins in the Second Half. Moved the ball around really well, kept the ball and created chances. We regressed late on and looked out of ideas. I have no idea why I'm discussing this with you when you didn't watch the match though. The penny will drop, SAF is a stubborn git and we know this but he's not fecking stupid.
As indisciplined as the two young lads are, at least with them we still have 11 players on the pitch when the opposition has the ball. As soon as Scholes is behind the ball he might as well not be on the pitch.
No. We were excellent through out the entire second half. Our only blight was the way we conceded the 3rd goal.
Aye.
Spurs midfielders, who are some of the strongest/quickest in the league, were just gliding past ours. Playing Giggs, Scholes and Carrick all together in midfield was just baffling.
Having one of Scholes/Carrick with Anderson and Cleverley would have been a thousand times better.
Doing the same thing again and again and expecting something new is just plain idiocy.
How dare you lot criticise Fergie.. wheres the Neviller?
Not read anything apart from this thread and admittedly the match report/stats on the BBC.
I reckon the game mirrored the pattern of every league game this season (bar Fulham), except Spurs have too many good players for us to ever get away with such basic levels of inadequacy.
When Scholes is in our midfield with Carrick, there are gaps in behind it, all the time. There are also gaps in front of it, because neither moves into the space. We stretch ourselves ridiculously because our midfield isn't an effective unit at either pushing up offensively or sitting off defensively. Teams can therefore just play through us whenever they get the ball nd not worry about being caught behnd the play themselves. It's just so basic and staring everyone we play against in the face. Spurs have players who will score goals if they can get at the opposition back line, so it was always going to be a very stupid idea today, even before factoring in playing Giggs WITH Scholes (just, why?).
and we yet again left Scholes and Carrick on all game and brought more strikers on instead of changing the midfield. I'm willing to put money on our main avenue of attack being aimless crosses in from the right side of the pitch, after Scholes plays the ball out there. This is now ALWAYS our main avenue of attack when Scholes is on the pitch. Sometimes he moves up the pitch himself, but not in a flowing or pressurising way...just because he hasn't jogged back properly yet from a corner or something.
The penny will not necessarily drop. It shouldn't need to drop. It's already rolling around on the floor. Anyone silly enough to not see what was going to happen this and last week before the games, is also silly enough to not understand what they're seeing when it does happen.
I feel a bit dirty saying this, but to me there's no doubt that Fergie lost us the game. It's fecking obvious that Giggs and Scholes shouldn't start a game together, was fecking pissed when the team was announced.
Are you sure you didnt watch the game?Scholes was awesome, no pointless passes from him, it was like he was 26 again. The only issue was when he'd pass it to someone if they didn't have the balls to play a decent pass they'd either knock it to Scholes or pass it out wide and if they were deep enough they'd just lump it up. Scholes isn't the issue, the players around him need to have more bollocks and stop relying on Scholes to dictate the game.
From last year we've sold Park and replaced him with Kagawa, Scholes is still class and the only issue is Giggs who's been out of form for a while. Once SAF adapts to that and he uses Giggs more sparingly and he doesn't have him and Scholes starting there is no issue other than our midfield not being up to scratch as whole. FWIW I don't think Giggs will be playing next season nor Scholes so the penny will drop, whether SAF accelerates that drop and decides to step on the penny is up to him but I'd like to think after everything he's done that he can be trusted to do that.
Anderson I could understand, because he was looking absolutely exhausted in the midweek match, but why not Cleverley?
I can't understand it either, especially when the reason they're coming second to Giggs and Scholes is down to experience. When are they ever going to get experience then? After Giggs and Scholes have retired? Surely if that's the case, they will be inadequate replacements due to a lack of experience, caused by them not getting the games they need now.
Scholes is a massive issue when we don't have the ball. Great when we're in possession like the second half.
In the past week, Fergie has praised our midfield for their utterly embarassing performance against Liverpool, and then on Wednesday night by all accounts gave Cleverley a bollocking for nearly scoring a goal.
...I'm not confident the penny is dropping at all. I think he's going to cost us more games.
Yep...I was invited out, couldn't find a properly working stream, and then when I saw the team just thought "feck it, I'm not subjecting myself to this"
I saw bits of the first 20 minutes. Including half a replay of the opening goal and a frozen image of Van Persie about to take a freekick.
...I'm not confident the penny is dropping at all. I think he's going to cost us more games.
Yep...I was invited out, couldn't find a properly working stream, and then when I saw the team just thought "feck it, I'm not subjecting myself to this"
I saw bits of the first 20 minutes. Including half a replay of the opening goal and a frozen image of Van Persie about to take a freekick.
Different halves though, Spurs were basically sitting back the entire half which aided Scholes immensely too.
I was out in a party and yet ended up watching the match.
Yeah, then you have Carrick chasing them even though he's slow and then Rio's all exposed. Cleverley needs games, not sure why he's been relegated to League Cup duty exclusively it seems.
I'm not sure Kagawa and RvP are suited as a pair to lead our attack
Its hard not to find fault with the team selection. It was glaringly obvious despite the defensive failures for the first two goals.
The Spurs team has pace on wings and two physical midfielders in the middle. Don't see why we had to start with both Giggs and Scholes nowadays nevermind against this spurs team. Welbeck can put a shift out-wide or even kagawa if lack of fit wide players is the reason.
Rooney and RVP seemed good today, we're still bedding everyone in and trying to find the right system which people seem to ignore.
He didn't really praise our midfield did he? He said we were poor and said it was clear we would keep the ball more when Liverpool went down to 10 men. He praised the experience of our elder players. Not sure about this blocking you're on about, all Rooney said was the Boss wasn't too pleased and the media labelled it a 'rocket', whatever it was worked too.
Kagawa will play better with Welbeck. He wants somebody to link up with, which I don't think is Van Persie.
Scholes is very much an issue, because as you said yourself, other players just see him as the easy option, and all of his passes are from deep and go out wide to the right.
It looks great, but teams are happy to let him do it, because it means the ball is in front of them the whole time and none of their defenders or midfielders are being forced to turn or commit to challenges. As a bonus they also know where the ball is nearly always going to go.
It's like having Ronaldo back, except without any of the benefits of having Ronaldo back (i.e Ronaldo).
Then when we don't have the ball, Scholes is a non entity defensively. The defence can't push up because him and Carrick don't press the ball, but neither of them get back to close the gap between them and the defence either. When we don't have the ball, we literally don't have a midfield.