Shinji Kagawa

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do.ob said:
I think Kagawa's biggest Problem is that there is not that much movement in United's game. In when he got the Ball in Dortmund his players would move towards him in order to play some short pass combinations.
At United the movement is more static, making it a lot harder for him.
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Very true and unsurprisingly, the player he seems to understand the best is Cleverley, a player who loves to run all over the field
 
neat passing and played well in patches today

his best performance since Gangnam style at the Christmas Party
 
All 3 United said:
Yes he did. But you can't keep trying to turn and get caught in possession/pushed off the ball. He did ok with some of the link up play but he gave the ball away far too often to be anything other than awful.

Yes he will get better and he has all the attributes other than strength but don't say he had a good game today when he clearly didn't.
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Ashley young is in the league for more than five years, and still that is his biggest problem.
 
All 3 United said:
Yes he did. But you can't keep trying to turn and get caught in possession/pushed off the ball. He did ok with some of the link up play but he gave the ball away far too often to be anything other than awful.

Yes he will get better and he has all the attributes other than strength but don't say he had a good game today when he clearly didn't.
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Well if you too think that he was 'awful', then there is no point in me going any further with this. He's improving on his recent form and in flashes, showed us why he is going to be a class act.
 
I was at today's game and the general feeling around OT was that he shouldn't have tried to keep the ball at the later stages of the game when it was evident he was getting pushed off the ball so easily, he should have tried to keep it simpler
 
He was pretty decent, I thought. He and Cleverley are starting to trust each other more, which is crucial. He'd probably benefit more from playing with a striker like Hernandez on the field, because there were a couple of times when he turned neatly and no-one was making the run ahead of him.

I don't care where Japan play him, however, he's not a winger at all. As far as I'm concerned, the more centrally we play him, the better he'll be. He can turn a man, has good close control in tight spaces, and has a good through ball in his locker. Those are the qualities of a number ten. He doesn't really dribble much (not for any distance, anyway), isn't the fastest, and doesn't like to cross. So he doesn't have the key qualities of a winger.
 
Well I like Kagawa and can't wait for the days when he really starts to show what he can do but, today I think he was a bit on the liability side. One time he lost the ball to Wisdom due to getting out muscled and then could not get back to cover - not sure if it's lack of desire or pace. I don't think he'll ever be strong enough to not lose the ball in the way he did, fair enough but, he needs to then fight a bit harder to make sure to get the ball back.

Even being poor, which I say because expect more from him, he showed how he can work out of tight spaces plus the passing that lead to the first goal is a direction I see us do a lot more of. I just can't wait to Nani to get a chance to play with him and the likes of Cleverely, Rooney and RVP.
 
kouroux said:
Why do most our posters do that ? Like why is it so difficult to admit you're mistaken ? I know I have no pb admitting my errors when I get found out
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I have no clue. Specially on the net, it makes no sense whatsoever.
 
Very disappointing first season so far but hopefully can have a decent few months and kick on next year. Doesn't seem to be able to impose himself on a game that the likes of Mata and Cazorla can do.
 
shaggy said:
Very disappointing first season so far but hopefully can have a decent few months and kick on next year. Doesn't seem to be able to impose himself on a game that the likes of Mata and Cazorla can do.
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Eh?

He was fairly good before the injury. Then had a lengthy spell off. He was good today too.
 
do.ob said:
I think Kagawa's biggest Problem is that there is not that much movement in United's game. When he got the Ball in Dortmund his mates would move towards him in order to play some short pass combinations.
At United the movement is more static, making it a lot harder for him.
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To add on to this point, most of our movement is in wider areas or from the frontman. It's what I've been saying for a while. He's used to having players play off of him more frequently. Probably why he said he'd like his teammates to use him more earlier in the season.

He's still settling in and the team are still adjusting to him. You're right though, we definitely dont move enough for him to really show us what he's got.
 
shaggy said:
Very disappointing first season so far but hopefully can have a decent few months and kick on next year. Doesn't seem to be able to impose himself on a game that the likes of Mata and Cazorla can do.
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He's not been played in his best position either and he's been out for two months. How can you say it's disappointing when he's barely featured?
 
Brwned said:
Kagawa - 39 out of 43 passes completed

You're seeing things.
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He got pushed off the ball or got tackled often tbf. It doesn't count as a misplaced pass but gives the ball away.
 
A lot of players need time to settle in to the league.
Not at his best... but he isnt terrible either.. and he'll get better.

patience
 
Sure shaggy but it's slightly harsh considering he just came back from injury. I would save words such as disappointing for the likes of Valencia who have played a lot more games.

I'm sure Kagawa will play better but I don't see him not playing well as justification to say he's had a disappointing season considering his appearances. I wouldn't have responded if he was turning in performances like Valencia has this season.
 
Platato said:
Sure shaggy but it's slightly harsh considering he just came back from injury. I would save words such as disappointing for the likes of Valencia who have played a lot more games.

I'm sure Kagawa will play better but I don't see him not playing well as justification to say he's had a disappointing season considering his appearances. I wouldn't have responded if he was turning in performances like Valencia has this season.
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It's disappointing in the sense he hasn't had game time, hasn't played to his potential and generally hasn't lived up to the expectations I had of him. Obviously his injury has had an impact on that and as I said I'm sure he'll be fine the next couple of months. But I did think he'll have a huge impact on the Premier League from the get go so it's probably my own fault from setting unrealistic expectations.
 
Amir said:
He got pushed off the ball several times, and lost it as a result about twice.
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Didn't count but he lost it a few times being pushed off and once or twice on the turn and running into players.

Which is not much of a problem if you are actually doing something substantial in possession like Welbeck was doing running at players regularly and creating oppurtunites. On the other hand if like Kagawa you have completed 0 dribbles, and didn't attempt a through or long ball from what i can recall, then it becomes a problem. Because you are just passing and linking play through 91% completion of short passes and not doing much else.

It is similar to a Joe Allen who has 90% passing stats every game almost but doesn't do much half of the games. (Even today he had 87% passing stats and was probably the worst player on the pitch.)

On top of that he gassed badly in the second half and wasn't tracking back.

He showed some flashes of class, but all round game was poor today. Didn't add that much.

Edit - Having said that, i am sure he'll become better as he was a lot more creative during his Dortmund days. Needs to improve his upper body strength and Stamina though.
 
Cevno said:
He got pushed off the ball or got tackled often tbf. It doesn't count as a misplaced pass but gives the ball away.
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I agree, he got pushed off the ball too often. Most of them were because he was fouled. Got involved for the first goal showing real class and linked up excellently with both Carrick and Cleverley a number of times - I thought he was great in the first 60 minutes myself.

It's went from being hype overdrive after a few friendlies to constant criticism while half-fit and the worst thing is it surprises me every time...
 
shaggy said:
It's disappointing in the sense he hasn't had game time, hasn't played to his potential and generally hasn't lived up to the expectations I had of him. Obviously his injury has had an impact on that and as I said I'm sure he'll be fine the next couple of months. But I did think he'll have a huge impact on the Premier League from the get go so it's probably my own fault from setting unrealistic expectations.
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That's fair mate. For me, it hasn't helped how we've played him and like another poster highlighted, we don't move as much compared to a team like Dortmund. At least not right now.
 
Thought he played pretty well. Still short of confidence but that will come with time and with better understanding with the rest of the team mates.
 
I think the upper body argument is overstated. He's not using his body well enough nor does he appear to be aware of how quick he's being closed down.

Look at Silva, does he look as if he's added a stone or two ever since he arrived in the league? There's more to adjusting to this league than just bulking up. Kagawa isn't playing off of his opponents enough. He's making it too easy for them to close him down. Part of that also has to do with how his teammates are using him.

I think it's well-established if you're a small player, you can do well in this league. However, it does require some slight adjustments in terms of body position, low centre of gravity and other factors. Bulking up isn't the best solution in my eyes.
 
Platato said:
I think the upper body argument is overstated. He's not using his body well enough nor does he appear to be aware of how quick he's being closed down.

Look at Silva, does he look as if he's added a stone or two ever since he arrived in the league? There's more to adjusting to this league than just bulking up. Kagawa isn't playing off of his opponents enough. He's making it too easy for them to close him down. Part of that also has to do with how his teammates are using him.

I think it's well-established if you're a small player, you can do well in this league. However, it does require some slight adjustments in terms of body position, low centre of gravity and other factors. Bulking up isn't the best solution in my eyes.
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Yeah, he has added a bit. Not too much but he has gotten stronger. And anyways, Silva is different as he is quicker on his feet and can run at players and ride challenges while dribbling.

Don't think he should add Bulk too much but needs to get stronger or get used to how to use his body.
 
They can both do that but Silva does it more often. I think he needs to use his body better.
 
Nah, Kagawa is not a runner with the ball carrier or a dribbler. I mean he may do it on the odd occasion but Silva is on another level in terms of that.
 
He was very good today. His best game for us for me and the first time the rest of the team seemed to understand how to play off him properly. Liverpool tried to get tight to him but didn't really deal with him at all.

Behind Welbeck and Carrick as our best players for me. Though those two were both better.

If people are expecting him to keep the ball and make something amazing happen every time I think they'll be disappointed. He usually takes the ball in tight areas, so there'll always be occasions when he loses it, and half the time it's about giving back once he's drawn someone out rather than making the killer pass/touch himself.
 
There was one moment in the first half, where he brought the ball down while facing back towards our own end. It was a gorgeous first touch. He's definitely shown glimpses of absolute brilliance at times, but hasn't quite put it all into a full MOTM type of display yet.

Hardly his fault though, that injury has really fecked him over, in terms of settling into a new country, and new team, and a new league. I thought today was the best he's played for us, without really setting the world alight. He'll get there though.

I must admit though, he's a very different kind of player to the one I was expecting. A lot less 'flashy' if you like. Not a criticism, just an observation.
 
Platato said:
I think the upper body argument is overstated. He's not using his body well enough nor does he appear to be aware of how quick he's being closed down.

Look at Silva, does he look as if he's added a stone or two ever since he arrived in the league? There's more to adjusting to this league than just bulking up. Kagawa isn't playing off of his opponents enough. He's making it too easy for them to close him down. Part of that also has to do with how his teammates are using him.

I think it's well-established if you're a small player, you can do well in this league. However, it does require some slight adjustments in terms of body position, low centre of gravity and other factors. Bulking up isn't the best solution in my eyes.
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I think he does need to bulk up a little, but not a large extent to something like what Nani did, where he can start pushing others off the ball. Silva wasn't anything impressive until his second season with City, it took him quite a while to get going. I'm pretty confident Kagawa will be the same, decent for this season and then he will only improve the more time he gets.
 
He's first touch just before our first goal was ridiculously good, pretty much the only reason we kept the ball in that area.
 
Promising touches today but if he is going to play that wide position he needs to track back. The time where Wisdom outmuscled him then burst passed and was played through was poor on his part, thankfully Wisdom made a good job of ruining the opening.

Edit my mistake, he wasn't shrugged off, just misplaced the pass
 
I thought he showed some promising signs, it's not ideal for him to play there but it's the most likely place for him to get in the team. He stil needs to work on his strength/adaption to the pace of the game but I thought he worked hard and his neat/smart passing and movement helped us quite a bit. Plus he had a number of opportunities to drift in centrally with a striker moving wide, if we can work on that it could work well for us.
 
Platato said:
They can both do that but Silva does it more often. I think he needs to use his body better.
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I think the main difference between them is just a technical one, or at least a difference in style personally. When Silva is at his best, he doesn't not get dispossessed due to his strength, it's just that you can't get near him. His close control is better than anybody in the league, and coupled with his agility, it is very hard to barge him around, as he's likely to manipulate your body weight against you if you try and lean in on him and skip off in the opposite direction.

Shinji doesn't really dribble as much as Silva it seems, and if he can do, although I've seen some clips of him doing so, so perhaps he isn't confident enough to try just yet.

I do love him though, I have #26 and his name (in Japanese Kanji writing) on the back of my United home shirt. Can guarantee it's cooler than anyone else's shirt!
 
I would worry about him playing against Lennon and Wlaker next week, although I do think he showed today that the left will work for him.

However, to work in the long run, I think we will again have to see Rooney doing his fair share of defensive work down our left-side to cover. The question then becomes whether Kagawa's attacking or continuity contribution is enough to justify such a requirement from Rooney.
 
His defensive work was very good, I don't understand how people can criticize him for that, especially since this was his first time he has started on wing for us. Today he had one tackle, one interception, and one clearance, which is fairly good since Liverpool rarely attacked through that side. That's more than Cleverley for example.

Every player(forward) that comes into premiership has problem with tracking back, Mata was awfull last season in that department, no wonder Chelsea were conceeding so many goals from wings, this season they are nothing better after Hazard has been playing there.
 
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