Anderson

[prateik]

He'll be worth the wait. He's still 24. He'll get over his injury problems.

The good thing is he is contributing when he is fit. Next step would be to stay fit for longer.

 

[Chabon]

He's become so much more consistent, he's had very few bad games in the last two years. If he could stay fit and maintain that consistency he'd be one of the best in the world. Huge 'if' though, obviously.

 

[Rowem]

He is a great asset for us.

Re: consistency. The big test for him now is to prove himself in big games. He shines against middling sort of opposition, especially at home, but I can barely ever remember him starting against a top 6 side or top European side. A couple matches against Arsenal and a CL final when he was out of form. Obviously in previous seasons Fletcher, Scholes and Giggs were ahead in the pecking order, and combined with his disastrous injury record he's never really established himself enough to be selected. Time for him to step up to the plate!

 

[The Neviller]

Or perhaps Wayne is learning from Van Persie?

Yeah, because Rooney never made runs in behind the defence until RVP arrived.

 

[ravelston]

He is a great asset for us.

Re: consistency. The big test for him now is to prove himself in big games. He shines against middling sort of opposition, especially at home, but I can barely ever remember him starting against a top 6 side or top European side. A couple matches against Arsenal and a CL final when he was out of form. Obviously in previous seasons Fletcher, Scholes and Giggs were ahead in the pecking order, and combined with his disastrous injury record he's never really established himself enough to be selected. Time for him to step up to the plate!

First three seasons (aged 19, 20 and 21) he started 6 CL games (3 subs); 7 (2); and 5 (0). (He blew his ACL partway through the third season.)

Giggs played a different position. In 07-08 Fletcher wasn't a factor. After that, allowing for injuries, he and Anderson had similar appearances. Obviously, when Scholes was fit, he played.

 

[Lawman]

Still needs a run of 15-20 games (give or take rotation) in a row for me to be convinced. He adds skills what we lack in midfield no doubt but is also pedestrian off the ball and poor defensively. Would be up against it if we played Carrick and Anderson in a midfield two against Madrid he would need to play in a midfield three. Good player great potential but injury record and fitness a major concern for me. Still a lot to prove if we had signed a Modric type player then Anderson would be second fiddle (fantastic option with potential to be a first 11). He has been lucky in a way our midfield has been average as in years gone bye many players have had less opportunity before being shown the door.

 

[gza the genius]

This season has by far been his most consistent in terms of performances. He's been pretty good in almost every game he's played. The real test will be whether or not he can remain fit a majority of the season, if he can't I'm not sure he deserves yet another season to prove himself.

It would be a shame if we sold him and he finally put it all together though because at his best he can be a very very good player.

 

[Rozay]

Still needs a run of 15-20 games (give or take rotation) in a row for me to be convinced. He adds skills what we lack in midfield no doubt but is also pedestrian off the ball and poor defensively. Would be up against it if we played Carrick and Anderson in a midfield two against Madrid he would need to play in a midfield three. Good player great potential but injury record and fitness a major concern for me. Still a lot to prove if we had signed a Modric type player then Anderson would be second fiddle (fantastic option with potential to be a first 11). He has been lucky in a way our midfield has been average as in years gone bye many players have had less opportunity before being shown the door.

And less ability.

Faith hasn't been shown in Anderson for no reason.

 

[Lawman]

This season has by far been his most consistent in terms of performances. He's been pretty good in almost every game he's played. The real test will be whether or not he can remain fit a majority of the season, if he can't I'm not sure he deserves yet another season to prove himself.

It would be a shame if we sold him and he finally put it all together though because at his best he can be a very very good player.

Agree it would not be nice seeing him leave as his potential is huge. But think a few of us are going over board about him and have a blind spot because we really lack this type of player in the squad. He has a lot to prove hopefully he proves it finally.

 

[Lawman]

And less ability.

Faith hasn't been shown in Anderson for no reason.

And more ability.

I think if Fletcher and Hargreaves were not cut down in their prime then he could have been surplus to requirements.

 

[Brightonian]

I've always thought that anyone who recognised his raw ability but still wanted to sell him was a loon. He's not on an especially big wage (at least, I assume he isn't - does anyone know the actual number?) and it's not as if we currently have amazing midfielders queueing up for his spot in the squad. Even if he never manages to have an injury-free season, and only ever plays at the rate he's played this season, I wouldn't want us to move him on. What would we gain from it?

I suppose if that happened but Fergie didn't buy a midfielder because he believed Anderson would come good, that might be a problem for some. But then if Fergie believes in Ando that strongly, I'd probably trust that he was right anyway.

 

[Lawman]

I've always thought that anyone who recognised his raw ability but still wanted to sell him was a loon. He's not on an especially big wage (at least, I assume he isn't - does anyone know the actual number?) and it's not as if we currently have amazing midfielders queueing up for his spot in the squad. Even if he never manages to have an injury-free season, and only ever plays at the rate he's played this season, I wouldn't want us to move him on. What would we gain from it?

I suppose if that happened but Fergie didn't buy a midfielder because he believed Anderson would come good, that might be a problem for some. But then if Fergie believes in Ando that strongly, I'd probably trust that he was right anyway.

I was waiting on Brightonian entering the debate I admit I thought his ship had sailed earlier on in the season. Not through his talent that has never been in dispute but his fitness issues and injury record are still a concern for me. Good player but needs to come good soon or he is going to be nothing more than a bit part player. I had higher hopes than that for him when he signed maybe hence my disappointment so far.

 

[Rozay]

And more ability.

I think if Fletcher and Hargreaves were not cut down in their prime then he could have been surplus to requirements.

Meh, if Fletcher didn't come through our academy he would have probably been sold many years ago himself. He was poor for years before establishing himself when he was a similar age that Anderson is now. If both careers follow a similar trajectory, then he would likely end up much better than Fletcher, given having much more ability.

As for Hargreaves, I doubt he had much to do with Anderson, given the age difference especially. Hargreaves was what, 26 when he signed while Anderson had just turned 19 (in the same summer). I doubt they were running on the same time frame in the manager's eyes.

 

[Sandikan]

Is the general consensus that the only 2 midfielders we can actually play regularly in a 2 is Carrick and Cleverley?

Anderson, Giggs and Scholes I've all seen people dismiss in a 2.

 

[Brightonian]

I was waiting on Brightonian entering the debate

I can quit any time I want, honest!

Agree with your post. But even if that scenario (he remains a bit-part player) played out, it still wouldn't make sense to sell him until there's a reason to do so (we suddenly can't pay his wages, for example, or need his space in the squad.)

 

[lunchforthesky]

Is the general consensus that the only 2 midfielders we can actually play regularly in a 2 is Carrick and Cleverley?

Anderson, Giggs and Scholes I've all seen people dismiss in a 2.

Anderson when he's really on form can play in a two, but he's so unreliable it's not worth risking it.

 

[ravelston]

Is the general consensus that the only 2 midfielders we can actually play regularly in a 2 is Carrick and Cleverley?

Anderson, Giggs and Scholes I've all seen people dismiss in a 2.

We've been playing Anderson in a midfield 2 since the 07-08 season. Stands to reason that SAF thinks it works - and who are we to argue.

 

[I'm always right]

We've been playing Anderson in a midfield 2 since the 07-08 season. Stands to reason that SAF thinks it works - and who are we to argue.

This. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

 

[Sandikan]

That mad few games we played Cleverley and Anderson as a 2 got everyone's peckers up. We smashed a few teams, but conceded the most shots on goal in the whole league

 

[gza the genius]

I've always thought that anyone who recognised his raw ability but still wanted to sell him was a loon. He's not on an especially big wage (at least, I assume he isn't - does anyone know the actual number?) and it's not as if we currently have amazing midfielders queueing up for his spot in the squad. Even if he never manages to have an injury-free season, and only ever plays at the rate he's played this season, I wouldn't want us to move him on. What would we gain from it?

I suppose if that happened but Fergie didn't buy a midfielder because he believed Anderson would come good, that might be a problem for some. But then if Fergie believes in Ando that strongly, I'd probably trust that he was right anyway.

I think if you look at it in seasons past it makes more sense to get rid of him, I certainly have advocated it. In the past he was the weak link, or at least the most likely to be allowed to leave if we were to let someone go and approach a new midfielder. I only say this because at times it's looked as if we were relying on him to be a regular starter, the last two seasons we had to have Giggs bail us out and then Scholes with Anderson doing his usual.

Now we have Scholes, Giggs, and Fletcher all reaching a point where it wouldn't be surprising to see 2/3 of them gone next season. If we have the space in the squad to add a midfielder or two and still keep Anderson then selling him would be pointless. But again, he has the talent to be a regular starter and the consistency when playing seems to be improving but we still can't rely on his fitness.

 

[Lawman]

Meh, if Fletcher didn't come through our academy he would have probably been sold many years ago himself. He was poor for years before establishing himself when he was a similar age that Anderson is now. If both careers follow a similar trajectory, then he would likely end up much better than Fletcher, given having much more ability.

As for Hargreaves, I doubt he had much to do with Anderson, given the age difference especially. Hargreaves was what, 26 when he signed while Anderson had just turned 19 (in the same summer). I doubt they were running on the same time frame in the manager's eyes.

Think you've misinterpreted my previous post or I didn't make it clear enough Rozay I was meaning just as talented players have had less opportunity than Anderson here at United and been sold thinking Forlan, Veron Kleberson and also that had Fletcher and Hargreaves not been cut down in their prime then Anderson might have been surplus right now. As it would have been Hargreaves and Carrick with Fletcher and Cleverley as back up. Anderson would struggle to break through that after the 4-5 years he has had here.

 

[I'm always right]

That mad few games we played Cleverley and Anderson as a 2 got everyone's peckers up. We smashed a few teams, but conceded the most shots on goal in the whole league

Was great to watch though, sex football. feck shutting up shop, I prefer the we'll score more than you approach.

 

[Lawman]

I think if you look at it in seasons past it makes more sense to get rid of him, I certainly have advocated it. In the past he was the weak link, or at least the most likely to be allowed to leave if we were to let someone go and approach a new midfielder. I only say this because at times it's looked as if we were relying on him to be a regular starter, the last two seasons we had to have Giggs bail us out and then Scholes with Anderson doing his usual.

Now we have Scholes, Giggs, and Fletcher all reaching a point where it wouldn't be surprising to see 2/3 of them gone next season. If we have the space in the squad to add a midfielder or two and still keep Anderson then selling him would be pointless. But again, he has the talent to be a regular starter and the consistency when playing seems to be improving but we still can't rely on his fitness.

Gza this is the first time I have thought you were a genius as this sums up exactly what I was thinking and was struggling to get across! Full marks!

 

[Lawman]

Was great to watch though, sex football. feck shutting up shop, I prefer the we'll score more than you approach.

Glad you don't have a say in picking SAF successor as I'm not a fan of Kevin Keegan!

 

[Will Absolute]

He adds a dynamism to our midfield, both with his runs and his incisive passing, that no one else provides.

I'm not too worried about his injury issues - that's in the lap of the Gods, but I just wish the little b*****d would work on his positioning. Carrick shows up where he's most needed, whereas Anderson is too frequently a spectator.

 

[ravelston]

Think you've misinterpreted my previous post or I didn't make it clear enough Rozay I was meaning just as talented players have had less opportunity than Anderson here at United and been sold thinking Forlan, Veron Kleberson and also that had Fletcher and Hargreaves not been cut down in their prime then Anderson might have been surplus right now. As it would have been Hargreaves and Carrick with Fletcher and Cleverley as back up. Anderson would struggle to break through that after the 4-5 years he has had here.

I think that you are misinterpreting history here. Fletcher only got to make any sort of a mark because Hargreaves wasn't available. Without that I have no doubt that we would have continued to rotate Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves and Anderson as we did in the 07-08 season.

Forlan, Veron and Kleberson had plenty of opportunities to make a mark. The point is that they didn't and a nineteen year old Anderson did.

 

[Lawman]

He adds a dynamism to our midfield, both with his runs and his incisive passing, that no one else provides.

I'm not too worried about his injury issues - that's in the lap of the Gods, but I just wish the little b*****d would work on his positioning. Carrick shows up where he's most needed, whereas Anderson is too frequently a spectator.

And not just defensively but his work rate to make angles to get on the ball is found wanting to many times he should be showing but instead points out another pass. How about you get in position and give the player with the ball another option and he can choose which one he wants?

 

[I'm always right]

I was meaning just as talented players have had less opportunity than Anderson - Kleberson

ha ha ha.

 

[I'm always right]

Glad you don't have a say in picking SAF successor as I'm not a fan of Kevin Keegan!

Problem with Keegan was, his teams rarely outscored the others.

 

[Lawman]

I think that you are misinterpreting history here. Fletcher only got to make any sort of a mark because Hargreaves wasn't available. Without that I have no doubt that we would have continued to rotate Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves and Anderson as we did in the 07-08 season.

Forlan, Veron and Kleberson had plenty of opportunities to make a mark. The point is that they didn't and a nineteen year old Anderson did.

What mark did 19 year old Anderson make did I miss something? And I think Veron and Forlan had or have made a bigger mark than Anderson. Also Fletcher broke in to the first team around 03-04 as a 19-20 year old so not sure where your headed with the misinterpreting history part. I agree with you he wasn't first choice in 07-08 but neither was Anderson and since 07-08 I think its fair to say Fletcher had well over taken Anderson in the midfield stakes. Hence the point if Hargreaves and Fletcher were not cut down then Anderson may have been surplus to requirements.

 

[Rowem]

First three seasons (aged 19, 20 and 21) he started 6 CL games (3 subs); 7 (2); and 5 (0). (He blew his ACL partway through the third season.)

Giggs played a different position. In 07-08 Fletcher wasn't a factor. After that, allowing for injuries, he and Anderson had similar appearances. Obviously, when Scholes was fit, he played.

Your point?

 

[Lawman]

ha ha ha.

I don't get you! Are you saying Kleberson wasn't talented or regarded as highly Anderson was when he was with us?

 

[Will Absolute]

And not just defensively but his work rate to make angles to get on the ball is found wanting to many times he should be showing but instead points out another pass. How about you get in position and give the player with the ball another option and he can choose which one he wants?

Yep. And sometimes he runs forward on automatic pilot, making himself unavailable for a pass, and leaving his midfield partner without options.

Some of this stuff has to be correctable. You'd think Fergie or one of the coaches would put a friendly arm around his shoulder and clue him in.

He's the most frustrating player, but somehow lovable.

 

[I'm always right]

Are you saying Kleberson wasn't talented or regarded as highly Anderson was when he was with us?

Both.

You're massively underrating Anderson by the way.

 

[Lawman]

Yep. And sometimes he runs forward on automatic pilot, making himself unavailable for a pass, and leaving his midfield partner without options.

Some of this stuff has to be correctable. You'd think Fergie or one of the coaches would put a friendly arm around his shoulder and clue him in.

He's the most frustrating player, but somehow lovable.

Yep agree and I can't help but like him also but I don't have a massive blind spot for his weaknesses unlike a few.

 

[Lawman]

Both.

You're massively underrating Anderson by the way.

Kleberson was like Anderson one of the top rated youngsters in the world when we signed him and he had starred for Brazil at some tourni. So I think your doing him a disservice to be honest. I've also stated many times Anderson is a good player just very unreliable to date.

 

[Platato]

Still needs a run of 15-20 games (give or take rotation) in a row for me to be convinced. He adds skills what we lack in midfield no doubt but is also pedestrian off the ball and poor defensively. Would be up against it if we played Carrick and Anderson in a midfield two against Madrid he would need to play in a midfield three. Good player great potential but injury record and fitness a major concern for me. Still a lot to prove if we had signed a Modric type player then Anderson would be second fiddle (fantastic option with potential to be a first 11). He has been lucky in a way our midfield has been average as in years gone bye many players have had less opportunity before being shown the door.

He's no less defensively liable than Cleverley. Against West Ham and Fulham, I thought he was pretty good defensively. As I have noticed though, on this forum especially, fans have a good habit of remembering how players finish a game. In Anderson's case, he doesn't really finish games well. Both him and Tom have the issue of staying defensively engaged as they begin to tire. It's my biggest criticism of both of them.

At the same time, I don't think Anderson is as defensively liable as you make out. Any midfield two against Madrid could be potentially dangerous.

 

[I'm always right]

Kleberson was like Anderson one of the top rated youngsters in the world when we signed him and he had starred for Brazil at some tourni.

Nonsense, he was bought as a tempter for Ronaldinho.

Kleberson was never one of the top rated youngsters in the World. A decent shot in the WC final doesn't change that btw. It's obvious to anyone that has watched enough of the 2 of them, Kleberson doesn't have a shred of Anderson's talent.

 

[I'm always right]

At the same time, I don't think Anderson is as defensively liable as you make out.

He really isn't.

 

[ravelston]

What mark did 19 year old Anderson make did I miss something? And I think Veron and Forlan had or have made a bigger mark than Anderson. Also Fletcher broke in to the first team around 03-04 as a 19-20 year old so not sure where your headed with the misinterpreting history part. I agree with you he wasn't first choice in 07-08 but neither was Anderson and since 07-08 I think its fair to say Fletcher had well over taken Anderson in the midfield stakes. Hence the point if Hargreaves and Fletcher were not cut down then Anderson may have been surplus to requirements.

Apparently you missed the 07-08 season for a start. Fletcher was squeezed out of the first team picture by the arrival of Anderson and, particularly, Hargreaves. As I said before, without Hargreaves' injury, there's no reason to suppose that he would have found a way back in.

Forlan, Kleberson and Veron all went because they didn't establish themselves at the club. The simple fact is that Anderson did establish himself. Now, while I'm sure that you're a better judge of talent than SAF, it's hard to deny that Anderson's continued presence (plus the new contract) suggest that the club sees something in him.