Moyes So Far!

[UnofficialDevil]

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/bayern-munich/mitarbeiter/verein_27.html

Guardiola brought his own men but also kept the Bayern backroom staff - assistant coach, gk coach, fitness coach, rehab coach. The ones he brought from Barca -assistant coach and fitness coach were already succesful. Moyes brought a group who had never tasted success at the highest level as backroom staff.

There was just too much change in the backroom staff, the senior administrators/executives and not enough in the playing staff. Moyes had control over two of these aspects - backroom staff, playing staff.

I still cant get used to seeing Phil Neville with a pad and pencil on our bench.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/bayern-munich/mitarbeiter/verein_27.html

Guardiola brought his own men but also kept the Bayern backroom staff - assistant coach, gk coach, fitness coach, rehab coach. The ones he brought from Barca -assistant coach and fitness coach were already succesful. Moyes brought a group who had never tasted success at the highest level as backroom staff.

There was just too much change in the backroom staff, the senior administrators/executives and not enough in the playing staff. Moyes had control over two of these aspects - backroom staff, playing staff.

What do you suggest, then? That he should've kept Rene on board? Have you followed the development of that "saga" at all?

 

[Eto'odinho]

The team looks devoid of ideas and confidence. This is what the manager needs to concentrate on building. Once he has the players believe in him, it then becomes easy for that belief to be carried onto the pitch and for the players to play their natural game and for the team. At the moment most players are just playing for themselves, there is a distinct lack of unity in our approach hence no little movement and creativity. The only way Moyes can build trust and belief is by first and foremost have a stable first eleven. His pet Fellaini has done nothing of worth to warrant being anywhere near the first team. Moyes has inherited a team of champions and there can be few excuses for us not winning, it is not like we fluked the league last season.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The team looks devoid of ideas and confidence. This is what the manager needs to concentrate on building. Once he has the players believe in him, it then becomes easy for that belief to be carried onto the pitch and for the players to play their natural game and for the team. At the moment most players are just playing for themselves, there is a distinct lack of unity in our approach hence no little movement and creativity. The only way Moyes can build trust and belief is by first and foremost have a stable first eleven. His pet Fellaini has done nothing of worth to warrant being anywhere near the first team. Moyes has inherited a team of champions and there can be few excuses for us not winning, it is not like we fluked the league last season.

That is a truth with certain modifications.

 

[Commadus]

What do you suggest, then? That he should've kept Rene on board? Have you followed the development of that "saga" at all?

United were well managed and coached we won the EPL at a canter and were unluck in the CL. There was no need for wholesale changes in the backroom staff the problems were on the pitch with a need for new players - that was obvious to any United fan. The fact that Moyes could not see this even after being a coach for so long worried me then and its coming to fruition now. Yes you can bring some of your old staff but look at how Pep has done it at Bayern - that was the model to copy.

 

[Revan]

What do you suggest, then? That he should've kept Rene on board? Have you followed the development of that "saga" at all?

Of course he should had. While Rene tecnically wasn't sacked, offering the youth job to the man who has been in charge of the training and most of the tactics for a good number of years was just a polite way of sacking someone. Should have Rene accepted becoming again the youth coach (after the all great work he has done) because Moyes favorized someone who nobody (except Everton fans) has ever heard before and another one who has a total nil of experience (and thinks that the youth training in England is as good as in Germany and Spain) as first team coaches?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

United were well managed and coached we won the EPL at a canter and were unluck in the CL. There was no need for wholesale changes in the backroom staff the problems were on the pitch with a need for new players - that was obvious to any United fan. The fact that Moyes could not see this even after being a coach for so long worried me then and its coming to fruition now. Yes you can bring some of your old staff but look at how Pep has done it at Bayern - that was the model to copy.

Yes, of course. Pep's model has always been the way, hasn't it? Look, read Rene's recent interviews, mate. It wasn't a viable option to keep him on board - both him and Moyes realized this.

 

[Brophs]

Definitely agree with that but it's the fact that I don't agree with so many of his decisions or what he does which makes it much harder to back him.

That and I think another manager may have come in and handled the transfer market a lot better.

Maybe so. I think there are a lot of things we'll probably never hear that might colour our perceptions of what we were doing during the window. A lot of what went on doesn't make a lot of sense unless you assume that there was a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. Likewise, mistakes were made, such as our apparent gamble on letting Fellaini's clause lapse to either focus on other targets or get him cheaper.

 

[Commadus]

Yes, of course. Pep's model has always been the way, hasn't it? Look, read Rene's recent interviews, mate. It wasn't a viable option to keep him on board - both him and Moyes realized this.

Thats his interviews post what happened, he was probably pissed off.

But you see people you work with and then they are replaced by people from a lower tier it affects you.

Whenever you see a manager being promoted to above his level and you have to work under them its going to affect you - you second guess and question him more.

 

[#07]

Yeah, one blocked shot and one header that was flagged offside. West Brom couldn't cope with us, clearly: we almost scored a goal that wouldn't have been given.

Seriously, it was an okay performance in the first half. Lacked urgency and creativity and we looked a little vulnerable defensively. I was hoping we could step it up, we could not.

Nobody else came any closer than Kagawa did to creating a clear cut chance and Januzaj having a mare of it for 20 minutes really let West Brom get down our left flank. Its not that we coudn't step it up, its that we set ourselves back from being in a comfy position where we probably would've ground out a 1-0 we lost.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Of course he should had. While Rene tecnically wasn't sacked, offering the youth job to the man who has been in charge of the training and most of the tactics for a good number of years was just a polite way of sacking someone. Should have Rene accepted becoming again the youth coach (after the all great work he has done) because Moyes favorized someone who nobody (except Everton fans) has ever heard before and another one who has a total nil of experience (and thinks that the youth training in England is as good as in Germany and Spain) as first team coaches?

You're mixing so many cards there that it's hard to address it properly. Is this perceived backwardness regarding youth policy affecting our first team performances a couple of months after the appointments? There are many reasons why Rene wouldn't have been an ideal foil for Moyes - and both men seem to have realized this.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Thats his interviews post what happened, he was probably pissed off.

But you see people you work with and then they are replaced by people from a lower tier it affects you.

Whenever you see a manager being promoted to above his level and you have to work under them its going to affect you - you second guess and question him more.

What? Don't you see that this is precisely why he would have been anything but an ideal AM? You're stating the very reason yourself. The problem is Moyes for you - nothing else. You think he isn't up to scratch. Well, if he isn't it wouldn't have made a bloody difference at all if he had kept Rene on as assistant manager. Would you have preferred it if Rene himself had been given the job?

 

[::sonny::]

He looks like a manager at his first experience, like Stramaccioni last year.

 

[Revan]

You're mixing so many cards there that it's hard to address it properly. Is this perceived backwardness regarding youth policy affecting our first team performances a couple of months after the appointments? There are many reasons why Rene wouldn't have been an ideal foil for Moyes - and both men seem to have realized this.

If you change tactics and training to players who have played all the time attacking football, to play a percentage game then it will have a great impact. I don't know if this has happened, but I know how Everton has played and we are playing in that way (without the personel to do so) and we also know that the coaches have been changed. Which makes me think that Moyes has changed the tactics and training. It's an observation from outside that could easily be wrong though (I admit).

 

[Commadus]

What? Don't you see that this is precisely why he would have been anything but an ideal AM? You're stating the very reason yourself. The problem is Moyes for you - nothing else. You think he isn't up to scratch. Well, if he isn't it wouldn't have made a bloody difference at all if he had kept Rene on as assistant manager. Would you have preferred it if Rene himself had been given the job?

There was too much change when it wasn't needed, ok he adds his own Assistant coach and still retains Rene - its what Pep did at Bayern. If Moyes wasn't so insecure he would have realised like a captain of the ship thats heading in the right direction there is no need for me to change course or do something drastic.

There was too much change in a short period and this is what happens.

 

[TheReligion]

There was too much change when it wasn't needed, ok he adds his own Assistant coach and still retains Rene - its what Pep did at Bayern. If Moyes wasn't so insecure he would have realised like a captain of the ship thats heading in the right direction there is no need for me to change course or do something drastic.

There was too much change in a short period and this is what happens.

That's been my only annoyance with Moyes in fairness so I'd agree with that.

I'd hoped the senior players would have stepped up a bit more mind but as its stands only Rooney is driving us on. Disappointing.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

There was too much change when it wasn't needed, ok he adds his own Assistant coach and still retains Rene - its what Pep did at Bayern. If Moyes wasn't so insecure he would have realised like a captain of the ship thats heading in the right direction there is no need for me to change course or do something drastic.

There was too much change in a short period and this is what happens.

That is precisely what was not viable: Rene would've been demoted - he wasn't interested in that. He understandably wouldn't want to go from being Fergie's right hand man to having his old youth team job under a new manager, one whose status is nowhere near Fergie's. It isn't all that complicated. Rene is clearly a fairly ambitious man. You can't look at Pep's machinations as some kind of blueprint that will work everywhere. We don't even know if it will work splendidly in Munich, the jury is still out on that one.

 

[Commadus]

That's been my only annoyance with Moyes in fairness so I'd agree with that.

I'd hoped the senior players would have stepped up a bit more mind but as its stands only Rooney is driving us on. Disappointing.

Rooney is the only United player who actually knows what Moyes is like so was more prepared?

It was simply bad change management by Moyes and the club.

 

[Commadus]

That is precisely what was not viable: Rene would've been demoted - he wasn't interested in that. He understandably wouldn't want to go from being Fergie's right hand man to having his old youth team job under a new manager, one whose status is nowhere near Fergie's. It isn't all that complicated. Rene is clearly a fairly ambitious man. You can't look at Pep's machinations as some kind of blueprint that will work everywhere. We don't even know if it will work splendidly in Munich, the jury is still out on that one.

Who said demoted? Pep has 2 assistant managers. United could have done that - it's all about change management. Why did Apple not throw everyone under the bus after Jobs left his position? The point was simple the organisation Apple just like United were set on the correct course all it needed was some changes in the playing staff more than the coaching staff.

The offer to Rene was an insult.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Rooney is the only United player who actually knows what Moyes is like so was more prepared?

It was simply bad change management by Moyes and the club.

Christ, man - don't you see how unreasonable this view is? You can't have a change of management without some...er...changes. Do you think we had an operation in place that was immaculate in every way? And that any mug could've waltzed in and taken over? All the bleedin' idiot had to do was to retain Fergie's staff? There's a factor in this called SAF. It's an immense factor, greater than any factor you can think of. Ponder upon that for a while.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

A couple of people I know saying he's losing the dressing room. Easy enough to laugh off at this early stage, but I am starting to get slightly concerned.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Who said demoted? Pep has 2 assistant managers. United could have done that - it's all about change management. Why did Apple not throw everyone under the bus after Jobs left his position? The point was simple the organisation Apple just like United were set on the correct course all it needed was some changes in the playing staff more than the coaching staff.

The offer to Rene was an insult.

Apple? Alright. I see. This is getting nowhere.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

If we don't win the next three league matches against Sunderland, Southampton and Stoke then it's going to get ugly.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Is he overwhelmed? Or is it really a case of he has to build his own team in order to succeed?

Some of his decisions are baffling me at the moment. His substitutions are illogical, poorly timed and ineffective. Now if these experiences build up something for the long term, I don't mind. But I wonder about how sensible the decision was to go for the 'cut from the same cloth' type as opposed to the 'big manager ready and built for the stature of Manchester United' manager.

 

[Ixion]

Sir Alex has always seemed so determiend to leave the club in a good state for whoever followed so the success could continue, but I think the suddenness of his departure (compared to say annoucing it well it advance like 2001) and Gill leaving at the same time as made things quite difficult. Moyes joining on the day the transfer window opened and not before didn't help, and the big changes in the coaching staff haven't helped things either.

 

[thegregster]

Is he overwhelmed? Or is it really a case of he has to build his own team in order to succeed?

Some of his decisions are baffling me at the moment. His substitutions are illogical, poorly timed and ineffective. Now if these experiences build up something for the long term, I don't mind. But I wonder about how sensible the decision was to go for the 'cut from the same cloth' type as opposed to the 'big manager ready and built for the stature of Manchester United' manager.

Does he even have that option? its not as if he will have Chelsea/City style money to spend.

He is going to have to make the best of what he has to a certain extend.

Rio,Vidic,Evra,Carrick,Giggs are all over 30 and will need replacing soon and maybe Rooney if he leaves. (So is RVP but i think he can do a teddy to a certain extent).

That is the worrying part.

The Glazers might need to wake up and spend to secure their investment.

Its a no brianer to spend big over a couple of windows to help keep something worth £3billion in tip top shape.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...nchester-United-now-worth-a-whopping-3billion

 

[Commadus]

Christ, man - don't you see how unreasonable this view is? You can't have a change of management without some...er...changes. Do you think we had an operation in place that was immaculate in every way? And that any mug could've waltzed in and taken over? All the bleedin' idiot had to do was to retain Fergie's staff? There's a factor in this called SAF. It's an immense factor, greater than any factor you can think of. Ponder upon that for a while.

Rubbish. No one is saying that. Don't make a straw man argument.

I maintain Moyes should have minimised the coaching changes, concentrated on the playing staff, its no wonder he's still saying im still learning as all his backroom staff are still learning.

The reference to Apple was clear, it was about a well edecuted succession plan. United was not, we lost our manager, chief scout, chief exec and backroom staff at once.

 

[The Man Himself]

Moyes had every right to bring in his staff. If the club has trusted with him with the job, he should be given freedom to bring his ideas and his personnel for it. As far as Rene is concerned, Moyes wanted him, but in a different role. Rene is an ambitious man and there is also possibility of things might not have worked between him and Moyes. People are acting as if all the success of previous regime was because of Rene and co. and had we retained them we would be coasting to league title 6 games into the season.

Is it not obvious to people that it is not so much back room events but on pitch lethargy and spark which has put us in trouble? We haven't changed too much from last season, we play same style, with same strengths and weaknesses but the spark is missing. Maybe the Fergie factor not hanging around players' head has made them take things bit casually. That said, I don't see a major problem with attitude with most of the squad we have and this defeat will serve as an real eye opener to them.

Moyes has made few mistakes definitely, both in transfer market and on-field related being a little 'soft' towards players and defeats. I actually want to put more blame on players here. They need a kick in the back and need to be told in no uncertain terms that they can't rest on laurels. I am sure in long run Moyes will prove to be the right choice and it is crucial that he doesn't let team slip out of top 4 while putting together the team he wants.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Moyes had every right to bring in his staff.

Bingo.

 

[Backrow Singer]

There are two ways of looking at this. I'm not going to sit here and say that I agree with all of his substitutions and tactical decision, but the fact remains that certain players aren't performing to the level that is expected of them. Blame whoever you want, but the only people capable of stepping things up are the players themselves. Moyes is still looking at combinations but things are stating to look just a little bit panicky.

 

[Shark]

If we don't win the next three league matches against Sunderland, Southampton and Stoke then it's going to get ugly.

It doesn't even bare thinking about. They are all clubs that could upset us, so it was vital that we picked up three points today.

 

[thegregster]

Bingo.

He does. But that doesnt make it the right decision.

 

[Sky1981]

He should have given Rene at least the benefits of doubt, if at given time he disrespect moyes and goes out of the line... well... at least Moyes tries. He does earn that much at least.

What we need after SAF is someone who is tactically astute, feared and respected, all the good things we can muster to balance the fact that we are losing the greatest manager of all time.

And so far, Moyes has not establish anything in a "tangible" way as to why he merits the job. He may possess the necessary "intangible" aspect of loyal, culture, value, mannerism etc. But in my eyes, he has not establish why he merits the job in a more tangible approach : achievement on the field.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Does he even have that option? its not as if he will have Chelsea/City style money to spend.

He is going to have to make the best of what he has to a certain extend.

Rio,Vidic,Evra,Carrick,Giggs are all over 30 and will need replacing soon and maybe Rooney if he leaves. (So is RVP but i think he can do a teddy to a certain extent).

That is the worrying part.

The Glazers might need to wake up and spend to secure their investment.

Its a no brianer to spend big over a couple of windows to help keep something worth £3billion in tip top shape.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...nchester-United-now-worth-a-whopping-3billion

I think the age of the players you've mentioned make it essential to build his own team. It won't be a bunch of £30m players, but there is going to be some major structural change in this squad.

If Giggs and Ferdinand are still first team players next season, I'll be shocked. After Sir Alex retiring, slowly the rest of the recognisable members of the club are going too, though playing staff may well stay involved in a coaching capacity. It's going to be a long few years ahead from what I can see. Something quite incompatible between the squad and the manager at the moment and this needs sorting.

 

[Dominos]

It doesn't even bare thinking about. They are all clubs that could upset us, so it was vital that we picked up three points today.

We had a run of 5 games that we should be winning starting today, which could have put us top or very close, and we've stumbled at the first hurdle, by losing at home in possibly the "easiest" game of the lot.

 

[devilish]

Throughout SAF's reign many Coaches, Scouts and assistant managers has come and left the club, many of whom ended up looking ridiculous away from OT (Kidd, Mclaren, the great Carlos Queroz and the magnificent Rene 'I thought Ronaldo how to play football' Millhouse) Guess what? We kept winning! Now some may say that this means nothing and that its a total coincidence that year in year out we tend to suffer from a ridiculous amount of injuries, that we haven't produced 1 world class player from the youth academy since Eric Harrison retired, that our scouting team saw it fit to spend 7m on 2nd division level player because allegately 'Real wanted him' and that time and time again Ando ended up with a figure similar to that of a pregnant woman. However could it be the case that what made this side win was not the coaching staff but SAF?

Moyes is not SAF. He never won anything and he never coached a big side. At Everton his best player was a tall guy with funny hair and whose not particularly technically gifted either. He was never the fans no 1 choice, he's playing too safe (relying too much on Rio and Giggs is a bit nutty to be honest) and I am sure that there's something written in some holy book that he should be flogged for not being able to convince the magnificent Rene 'Eikrem is the new Modric' Meluson (frek I always type his name wrong). to remain. However some of the things he said like 'our CM is weak' and 'we need to add quality to the first side' had be said by many supporters for years. Could it be that he's not that shite as many think?

 

[CassiusClaymore]

We need a 'What does Phil Neville actually do?' thread. His gormless face annoyed me today and I think I've subconsciously associated this loss with him.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Throughout SAF's reign many Coaches, Scouts and assistant managers has come and left the club, many of whom ended up looking ridiculous away from OT (Kidd, Mclaren, the great Carlos Queroz and the magnificent Rene 'I thought Ronaldo how to play football' Millhouse) Guess what? We kept winning! Now some may say that this means nothing and that its a total coincidence that year in year out we tend to suffer from a ridiculous amount of injuries, that we haven't produced 1 world class player from the youth academy since Eric Harrison retired, that our scouting team saw it fit to spend 7m on 2nd division level player because allegately 'Real wanted him' and that time and time again Ando ended up with a figure similar to that of a pregnant woman. However could it be the case that what made this side win was not the coaching staff but SAF?

Moyes is not SAF. He never won anything and he never coached a big side. At Everton his best player was a tall guy with funny hair and whose not particularly technically gifted either. He was never the fans no 1 choice, he's playing too safe (relying too much on Rio and Giggs is a bit nutty to be honest) and I am sure that there's something written in some holy book that he should be flogged for not being able to convince the magnificent Rene 'Eikrem is the new Modric' Meluson (frek I always type his name wrong). to remain. However some of the things he said like 'our CM is weak' and 'we need to add quality to the first side' had be said by many supporters for years. Could it be that he's not that shite as many think?

This reads like a drunken rant. I like it. And I agree with most of it.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

We need a 'What does Phil Neville actually do?' thread. His gormless face annoyed me today and I think I've subconsciously associated this loss with him.

He needs to sort out that bloody hair of his. Looks like a German DJ. And he better put some feckin' shorts on if he's gonna impress anyone.

 

[Ramshock]

Why can't we ask Rooney to drop back and play in a midfield three? How better would we be with his industry in the centre of the park instead of upfront?