That's a crackpot theory. Whatever you think of them as players I'm sure both want to see the team win. If just playing was their concern they could do that at a number of sides.
Shinji Kagawa
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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"you've got to keep on trudging"
It's a shame that any of our players feel that their current situation can be described as 'trudging'. Also sounds like he knows he isn't favoured in the league so just hopes to be picked for the CL return leg, which, truth be told, he will probably be overlooked for as well.
Poor handling of him quite frankly.
The video just highlights how pathetic our distribution from the back is. Kagawa constantly takes up good positions in the space between defence and midfield but our team avoids the center like the plague. The first two plays from Young is evidence why he shouldn't play for us.
If we can have Fellaini back for our next CL game, we might see a better Kagawa. He plays well with Fellaini in the team, especially on CL nights. At least we have someone who dares to pass centrally.
If we can have Fellaini back for our next CL game, we might see a better Kagawa. He plays well with Fellaini in the team, especially on CL nights. At least we have someone who dares to pass centrally.
Quite depressing reading that interview because shinji seems to be a better manager than moyes. Every time he speaks, he makes more sense than any of moyes interviews or tactics. Watch him be benched for young or valencia again.
He is one of the reasons I want a manager change. It would break my heart seeing him leave and play out of his mind for another team. He is a special player and I trust Klopp more than Moyes, if he says he is one of the best 10s in the world, I trust him.
That video you posted gives a strong indication of the way our players train under Moyes. These players rarely look at the middle, and almost everyone looks to get the ball out wide. I think this gives a clear indication of the way Moyes has a team set up with Young/Valencia (or both) play: get the ball wide, cross it in.
Seems like he's trying to copy Sir Alex here, though he's gone to a new extreme with it. This sort of a setup is in no way ideal for Kagawa. At least, with Sir Alex, there were signs of promise, particularly in his performance against Norwich. Plus, before Sir Alex pursued van Persie, there were signs that he was going for a more adventurous setup.
However, here we are now, and the situation isn't ideal for Kagawa, at all.
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Moyes ignores Kagawa in sushi restaurant
David Moyes has pointedly refused Shinji Kagawa's offer to translate Japanese menu items during a team dinner at a sushi restaurant, preferring to rely on Ashley Young...
Moyes and his Manchester United players decamped on Wednesday night to Umezushi on Mirabel Street in an attempt to rebuild morale after their Champions League defeat to Olympiakos.
But the evening took an uncomfortable turn when Moyes consistently ignored Kagawa’s attempts to explain the various exotic foodstuffs on offer, instead asking England winger Young for his thoughts on the relative merits of inarizushi and gunkanmaki.
“It was really awkward,” a Manchester United player, speaking on condition of anonymity, told FourFourTwo. “Shinji’s mid-way through explaining that the negitoromaki might be a better bet than the funazushi on account of the latter being made with fermented carp, when the gaffer turns his back on him and asks Ashley for his thoughts on natto maki.
“When Ashley says he doesn’t know what natto maki is, we all assume he’s going to listen to Shinji. But instead he asks Antonio [Valencia] what namasu means. Antonio does his best, but they didn’t teach him that at Wigan.
“The situation’s crying out for Shinji, but the boss just asks Juan Mata the difference between maguro and otoro, which isn’t fair on Juan, especially since he’d told him that we were all going for tapas.
“In the end, he just gives the menu to Tom Cleverley and asks him to come up with the goods. Is it really a surprise that everyone ends up with a massive bowl of wasabi and a California roll?”
The evening took a turn for the worse when Robin van Persie complained that everywhere he wanted to sit was already occupied by someone else, and deteriorated even further after an argument about the bill saw Moyes threaten the restaurant staff with an endless barrage of slow, looping crosses.
Read more at http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/moyes-ignores-kagawa-sushi-restaurant#ejJlLigAZ8W2sf4s.99
David Moyes has pointedly refused Shinji Kagawa's offer to translate Japanese menu items during a team dinner at a sushi restaurant, preferring to rely on Ashley Young...
Moyes and his Manchester United players decamped on Wednesday night to Umezushi on Mirabel Street in an attempt to rebuild morale after their Champions League defeat to Olympiakos.
But the evening took an uncomfortable turn when Moyes consistently ignored Kagawa’s attempts to explain the various exotic foodstuffs on offer, instead asking England winger Young for his thoughts on the relative merits of inarizushi and gunkanmaki.
“It was really awkward,” a Manchester United player, speaking on condition of anonymity, told FourFourTwo. “Shinji’s mid-way through explaining that the negitoromaki might be a better bet than the funazushi on account of the latter being made with fermented carp, when the gaffer turns his back on him and asks Ashley for his thoughts on natto maki.
“When Ashley says he doesn’t know what natto maki is, we all assume he’s going to listen to Shinji. But instead he asks Antonio [Valencia] what namasu means. Antonio does his best, but they didn’t teach him that at Wigan.
“The situation’s crying out for Shinji, but the boss just asks Juan Mata the difference between maguro and otoro, which isn’t fair on Juan, especially since he’d told him that we were all going for tapas.
“In the end, he just gives the menu to Tom Cleverley and asks him to come up with the goods. Is it really a surprise that everyone ends up with a massive bowl of wasabi and a California roll?”
The evening took a turn for the worse when Robin van Persie complained that everywhere he wanted to sit was already occupied by someone else, and deteriorated even further after an argument about the bill saw Moyes threaten the restaurant staff with an endless barrage of slow, looping crosses.
Read more at http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/moyes-ignores-kagawa-sushi-restaurant#ejJlLigAZ8W2sf4s.99
well played Like how I feel when I go to Sushi placeKagawa... I pity him... I really do
And Moyes is just too clueless to create a tactic that can actually utilise a great player like him.
And Moyes is just too clueless to create a tactic that can actually utilise a great player like him.
Jesus Christ, that video and that quote are possibly the most depressing things I've seen this season. And thats quite some achievement.
Moyes and his anti-football bullshit needs to feck off. Useless cnut.
So what are people's opinion on Kagawa not looking so great under Fergie either? Or is that all down to being his first season at the club in a new league?
Fecking hell Young is chronic.
That's overstated really. He started off the season really well, then got an unlucky knee injury which kept him out for a few months, so it took him a bit to recover and get back into the run of things, but the last 2 months of the season he was pretty much always starting, and looking good. That's when Rooney kept being pushed back into midfield and we saw Kagawa either behind RVP or on the left, but he was playing a good amount at the end, and playing well. He didn't have a spectacular season, but it was understandable to have just a decent one considering the injuries, new league, style of play being completely different. He was still our top scorer +assister after RVP, Rooney and Hernandez though.
In that video, look at 1:05. Pass and move and make a space. Kagawa is literally the only player on the pitch moving around. The rest are standing still, far away from the ball. Depressing.
Also, you look at Young only focusing on the ball at his feet and not at who's available to receive the ball on the pitch, and you start to understand why our crossing doesn't work. He's literally swinging a cross blindly.
Also, you look at Young only focusing on the ball at his feet and not at who's available to receive the ball on the pitch, and you start to understand why our crossing doesn't work. He's literally swinging a cross blindly.
Well, I guess I'd tell you to go back thru the thread and read the stats from last season I've posted over and over again because they show your statement to be completely false.
Putting aside the first season argument, I do think he did pretty well. Not looking at statistics, he's always played this 'little game' with other players, pass and move is something natural for him. Always made himself available and at times when we were looking dire last season I was supporting the idea of him playing #10 and Rooney either being a striker or fecking off. There's much good that comes from him that goes unnoticed/overlooked because it's not spectacular dribbling or some other stuff but rather some practical work that helps the whole team gel together and move the ball forward. Not to mention off the ball movement and making himself available at all times.
He definitely is better than both Valencia and Young combined, and if those quotes are true, then it's sad as feck to read.
Maybe i am naive but surely we can find a way to accomodate Kagawa in the team, surely Valencia does not warrant his place in the first team. I really cant understand this situation.
As many have said, it may not have been spectacular or flashy, but he was decent and effective.
Kagawa's work was, pretty much, unnoticed, particularly on the left wing, as people expect wingers to provide flair and the ability to beat a man with individual skill, something Kagawa cannot do. Instead, he beats his man through the pass-and-move game and is best when ghosting past defenders into spaces and playing quick passes through/go for goal.
As Sir Alex highlighted, the first season showed promise that Kagawa will become a great player, here. However, Moyes is now here, and with his more defensive setups, Kagawa cannot be influential, anymore.
What's the source for the Kagawa interview?
Fergie had high hopes for Kagawa. Moyes' just seem clueless when it comes to him.
Anyone has the stats on the number of times Kagawa was benched in favour of Valencia/Young?
He's one if not the most talent Asian player to emerge in recent times. It would be a great shame if he doesn't find his home here,
Anyone has the stats on the number of times Kagawa was benched in favour of Valencia/Young?
He's one if not the most talent Asian player to emerge in recent times. It would be a great shame if he doesn't find his home here,
Probably akin to my thoughts on the matter - in my view he remains a world class player but not at the traditional 10. To move towards more compact, progressive football you have to play Rooney / Van Persie at 9; Kagawa has to play 10 [or don't play him and sell him]; with Januzaj and Mata either side.
@REDMULLERS agreed. Perhaps a manager with more imagination/innovation could find a setup to accommodate Rooney, Rvp,Kagawa/Mata, and Januzaj but I even struggle with that. Ancelotti is showing the power of balancing your team shape. Something which Mourinho never fully achieved at Madrid. You dont need a whole bunch of top class players. Bayern showed that last season. Yes they are littered with quality but it wasn't until they showed what they could do as a unit that people began taking them seriously. Now you have fans calling Dante and Boateng world class even though I would suggest they are performing well in a unit that suits them.
In the Premier League, you can probably get away with not having the most cohesive team and getting through games based on sheer individual brilliance. But when it gets to the bigger stages, more often than not you're shown up. We've seen that in the CL so far. As Keano said, fans have bought into idea that the EPL is the best league in the world when really it's the best brand.
In the Premier League, you can probably get away with not having the most cohesive team and getting through games based on sheer individual brilliance. But when it gets to the bigger stages, more often than not you're shown up. We've seen that in the CL so far. As Keano said, fans have bought into idea that the EPL is the best league in the world when really it's the best brand.
It's why players like Scholes will remain underappreciated in some football circles. Thankfully for us as United fans, we got to witness his genius game in and game out. It was undeniable. But if it wasn't for his tremendous shooting ability, he would have been underrated even more. When you look at players like Bale and Ronaldo, they don't need to be heavily involved in the build up. They are offensively decisive players who make a devastating impact in the final third. But you will always need players to do the dirty work and maintain the balance and team shape. Otherwise, Ronaldo and Bale wont flourish. They may get you that goal out of nowhere but over the course of the season, you need something more sustainable so you dont have to keep relying on such players to bail you out. Our team is beyond that point and it's a sad sight to see. The issues are obvious. Even some of the solutions are obvious but it becomes more frustrating as it seems we're going to keep making the same mistakes again and again.
It's quite ironic that we have a player who is pretty much perfect for the style of football I'd love for us to play but is completely irrelevant and out of place in the one I really dislike. Shame, I hope he sticks around another season in case we improve, because he's going to fabulous if he moves to another big club, and in his own interest he really should. It's funny that people often say "oh we dont have the players to do here what Martinez is doing at Everton". Well, yeah if you take out all the players we actually have who are perfect, then sure we dont.
The distressing thing for me Gladiator is that we have regressed to mid 80's dinosaur football so quickly, bereft of even the basics of keeping the ball. There is no style or form it is pragmatic %age football at its worst. With all our attacking talent we had one real chance against Olympiakos, supposedly one of the weakest of the last 16 CL sides!! Southampton are not blessed with world class players but they have a style of football that is infinitely superior to ours. Even [a Michu-less] Swansea, who admittedly are struggling with results played Napoli off the park in the first leg of their Europa tie.
You're right it does not necessarily take a team of world class players and we can't, maybe shouldn't cram them all into the same team but if we are competing on all fronts which a club like ours should be there would be ample opportunity for Rooney / Van Persie et al. What's more if we were playing attractive football, creating chances, scoring goals and competing the likes of Van Persie / Kagawa would be keen to stay.
We are blessed with a fantastic array of attacking talent. What a basis to move forward from and it pisses me off me that that opportunity may be lost.
You're right it does not necessarily take a team of world class players and we can't, maybe shouldn't cram them all into the same team but if we are competing on all fronts which a club like ours should be there would be ample opportunity for Rooney / Van Persie et al. What's more if we were playing attractive football, creating chances, scoring goals and competing the likes of Van Persie / Kagawa would be keen to stay.
We are blessed with a fantastic array of attacking talent. What a basis to move forward from and it pisses me off me that that opportunity may be lost.
exactly this idea that just buying top class players and throwing them into the side will somehow stem the blow just does not fly with me. The same issues/questions still apply. Squad integration, style of play, accommodating these new players and attempting to getting the best out of the ones you have. I just dont get it. There are good aspects of Moyes' philosophy from what I have researched but he's not displaying ANY of it!! None!! He needs to stop trying to be like SAF. It's like he's afraid of being his own man and if it continues, I dont see him being much longer. The Glazers and co must have a cutoff point. If they dont, they need to take a serious look at themselves.
Starts/Comes on as sub (in the EPL):
Valencia 17/6
Young 9/6
Cleverley 16/3
Kagawa 7/2
You wonder what Valencia is showing in training? Do all his crosses hit their mark? Are our wingbacks so bad that he can actually beat them one on one?
It is somewhat depressing when you think of the quality of United wingers of days gone by...
For me Kagawa has been very poor when playing on the wing and I am not expecting him to be flying past people and scoring goal after goal but I expect a bit more from him than he does provide. Despite what alot of people say when he starts for us he doesnt provide assists or even many telling passes to create chances for the forwards.
Mata showed against palace how to play as a wide play maker, just come inside and control the game and this could draw the opponents full back inside making space for an over lap or drags away another opponent from the middle and pulls the opposition appart. Im not saying kagawa is crap but he rarely shows this apparent world class ability everyone says he has. Playing out of position isnt easy but you need to show SOMETHING!
Mata showed against palace how to play as a wide play maker, just come inside and control the game and this could draw the opponents full back inside making space for an over lap or drags away another opponent from the middle and pulls the opposition appart. Im not saying kagawa is crap but he rarely shows this apparent world class ability everyone says he has. Playing out of position isnt easy but you need to show SOMETHING!
The Greeks were allowed to do pretty much what they wanted, even making potentially leg breaking tackles. The ref was horrendous.
This needs to be confirmed by a link or something because it's funny how much the things we really talk about on the caf are what the players actually feel and experience.
That Kagawa quote reads too much like what most people here would say. I doubt it's a real quote, I can't imagine him criticizing the tactics publicly like that even though I would love it if he did
http://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/wfootball/2014/02/26/6/index3.php
It's real. Kagawa addressed the japanese media after the game.
Let's just make him manager already.
I wonder if he and RVP will feel Moyes' wrath for speaking out. He never gets picked for the EPL games anyways, but would be interesting to see if he and RVP are in the starting XI against West Brom.
Yeah, not starting Kagawa was a very strange decision. He's shown himself to be far more suited to CL than PL football over the last couple of seasons and was one of our best players in the group stages. I'm still hoping he'll become a more influential player domestically but not making use of his obvious preference for continental football is a real waste.
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