United linked with van Gaal in the meeja
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Mark Ogden.
Cannot see a succesful transfer window if our new manager arrives early August.
He is away with Holland I think.
I thought he goes away on the 7th?
It's been the story since last week that he'd be confirmed before Wednesday. Nothing new.
Which is nothing new to him. We have to realise this is how a lot of clubs work. I just hope our staff have done a good work on our possible new signings.
Really use your head it isn't so hard to get your head around why the two situations are totally different.
Moyes got rid of SAF his experienced coaching staff. People that had been here for years and won countless of trophies with the club, they all had some valuable experience to share with Moyes and could have helped him in his job. Players wouldn't have disrespected Moyes nearly as much if he was backed up by people like Meulensteen that trained them for all these years and which they respected.
The fact is Moyes got rid of all of them, they aren't here anymore and Giggs also didn't bring them back. The coaching staff we currently have exists out of Scholes, Giggs, Butt, Neville and Woods. Really the coaching staff isn't just an empty word, people wanted SAF his coaching staff to remain, they are gone, when they are gone you can't get rid of them again now can you ? People feel nothing for the experience of the existing staff, since it has only been in place for 2 games and it is only made on interim basis, these are ex-players not coaches, they don't offer the same to LVG as what SAF his coaching staff brought to Moyes. Hence why people feel like there is no point in keeping them and they are right to do so. Comparring the situations is just bullshit because it is about a totally different coaching staff.
On top of that LVG is way more experienced than Moyes and doesn't need the extra guidance. Doesn't change the fact that we simply can't offer that guidance anymore anyway, because the people that had the experience are gone, but even if they were still here he wouldn't need it as much as Moyes.
Moyes was an unexperienced coach that got rid of a valuable experienced coaching staff, LVG is the opposite he is an experienced coach that will get rid of an unexperienced coaching staff. In your words Moyes came in and swept everything out, nothing is in place anymore that has to be kept in place, so it is best for LVG when he comes in to sweep Moyess mess out of the door and start a new. Makes total sense !
It is the same though
think back (disregard results that we know since then), Moyes comes in, brings his own staff. Fans up in arms
LVG incoming, fans up in arms at the thought of anyone being kept on. "sweep them all out! make sure you check in the corners, leave none alive!"
My point is, ANY manager has the right to pick his own staff. We've been hypocritical as fans just because we didnt like Moyes
agree.
I supported Moyes' decision to instill his own coaching staff, a manager should work in unison with people he knows and trusts.
The same way I'll support van Gaal should he decide Giggs is surplus to requirements.
The same way I'll support van Gaal should he decide Giggs is surplus to requirements.
Sorry, got that wrong.
Just said that he's expected to be 'secured'. Odd, I thought he'd already been that.
http://www.footballdirectnews.com/premier-league-news/48487-van-gaal-opts-to-keep-class-of-92.php
he is keeping the Class of 92'
he is keeping the Class of 92'
Again read your own post and think about it....
It would be hypocritcal if it its about the same coaching staff. I agree any manager should have the same rights in theory. If Moyes is allowed to bring his people than so should LVG and if we don't want Moyes to bring in his own people that in theory we also shouldn't want LVG to bring them in. Yet I say this is total bullshit because it depends on the people that are in place. It isn't just about being allowed to bring in your people, it had more to do with retaining valuable people here at the club. We were unhappy that Moyes got rid of SAF his coaching staff that existed out of experienced people and we valued their experience. If LVG gets rid of our coaching staff, than it is a different situation because we aren't talking about the same people anymore, these people are gone, we lost their valuable experience and what we have in place now is not worth retaining, so why should we feel unhappy if it isn't retained ? Nothing hypocritical about it, it isn't about being allowed to bring in your own people or not, it is about the people we'd lose if the coach brought in his own people. With Moyes we didn't want to lose these people, but we did and they weren't replaced by people we would want to retain now hence why it is pure logic that people don't mind seeing LVG brining in his own people. It is pure logic...
Moyes' decided to bring in is own staff as he knows & trusts them. Nothing wrong with that. He offered Rene to stay but, as Moyes likes to be more hands on with his coaching, Rene decided that it wasn't for him so left to seek pastures new. This is where Moyes made the mistake of getting rid of the other backroom stuff. If Rene stayed, it would have been more beneficial to Moyes. Rene left and Moyes got rid of all the rest of the experienced backroom staff and even though he gave Giggs a coaching role, apparently, Moyes failed to seek any advice from Giggs on training. Giggs was reportedly frustrated at the lack of training methods more focused on attacking and the constant emphasis on the opposition rather than concentrating on United attacking.
Once LVG is installed is United manager and Giggs becomes his assistant, which is being reported, then they'll both work well together and Giggs will get the valuable experience that he will need in a few years time should he take on the United job once LVG stands down.
Once LVG is installed is United manager and Giggs becomes his assistant, which is being reported, then they'll both work well together and Giggs will get the valuable experience that he will need in a few years time should he take on the United job once LVG stands down.
the question is whether fans would have been up in arms if LVG had replaced SAF directly and brought in his own team. i think some may well have been, out of respect of Rene etc, despite it being the standard thing. certainly if the results had of been poor under the hypothetical management, people would have questioned LVG firing the staff, similarly to Moyes.
the current situation isn't comparable though, as Moyes' backroom staff have been so poor, and deserve to be sacked.
Two entirely different situations!
Agree. And let's say he does go away and manages elsewhere for a couple of years, and does pretty well...
When Van Gaal leaves, are we really going to offer Giggs the job because he shown a bit of promise, over someone like Klopp or Ancelotti who could potentially be available?
think when van Gaal eventually leaves, we will do a proper vetting to get the best manager available....whoever that may be.
I did not have a problem with Moyes bringing his own staff at all, so i have no problems with LVG doing the same. Also, the continuity is already lost, none of the current staff have been here long(as a part of the coaching staff) so it is pointless to think that we may lose continuity that does not even exist.
The class of 92 should earn this position, and apart from Butt, none of them others have a great deal of experience in coaching. The whole thing about the class of 92 is based on assumption. Just hope that we are not forcing this issue on our new manager.
The class of 92 should earn this position, and apart from Butt, none of them others have a great deal of experience in coaching. The whole thing about the class of 92 is based on assumption. Just hope that we are not forcing this issue on our new manager.
Often we're able to follow our next signing in the upcoming summer tournament to see how they do before they join. It'll be strange doing that with the new manager. Imagine if Holland lose all three group games, would we go into RAWK style meltdown?
The difference between Moyes bringing his unproven staff from Preston and Everton, and replacing people who had occupied their positions for many successful years is huge.
Van Gaal is a proven winner with different teams in different countries with his own set up. If he wishes to keep some of the old boys around the club for a bit of advice then I'm sure they'll assist him. The whole idea of grooming certain individuals for the job is quite unusual. Actually it's fantasy.
If Ferguson didn't do it with the likes of Robson etc, Van Gaal isn't going to stick Giggs and co in such important positions because it would be a nice touch.
Van Gaal is a proven winner with different teams in different countries with his own set up. If he wishes to keep some of the old boys around the club for a bit of advice then I'm sure they'll assist him. The whole idea of grooming certain individuals for the job is quite unusual. Actually it's fantasy.
If Ferguson didn't do it with the likes of Robson etc, Van Gaal isn't going to stick Giggs and co in such important positions because it would be a nice touch.
I don't doubt he's happy to keep Giggs on, he's already said he likes to ensure he keeps at least one coach from the previous regime and Giggs makes the most sense out of all our current options.
But he desperately wants a job in the Premier League and has the opportunity to take over one of the world's biggest clubs, if we told him it's Giggs or no job I think he'd take it. It's very likely we've put some form of pressure or persuasion towards him to get Giggs as his #2.
The guardian reporting that Giggs will be offered a senior coaching role.
Thus paving the way for Kluivert to be assistant manager.
Thus paving the way for Kluivert to be assistant manager.
It is quite a different situation this year to last though. For one thing, people might have revised their opinions on the back of last season, that isnt necessarily hypocricy, that could be a case of people changing their minds on the back of new evidence.
I guess it comes down to how culpable you think the players are as well, I know there are a lot of very different opinions on this. I think for all Moyes' failings, the results we have had this year suggest the problem is a little bigger than that. For me it is fair that we would be looking to sweep away more of the ancien regime now than we were a year ago, when we had just won the league. In retrospect Moyes should have done more to shake things up from the outset, no doubt he would have been lambasted for it but who knows, maybe things would have been better and people would have come to accept it.
I do think people are possibly going a bit overboard with how much change they are expecting next season, and wanting the get rid of the majority of our squad in one giant clear-out, but the case is clearly much stronger - or perhaps just more obvious - for a big overhaul now than it was.
Manchester United are a club, with staff and player loyalty, but ultimately are a business enterprise that must perform for its shareholders. You can be damn sure that sentimentality will only go so far, especially when it comes to performance, stock valuation, success and money.
United will inevitably, at the end of all things, look at the bigger financial picture. An established manager will always be the preferred route to that end.
United will inevitably, at the end of all things, look at the bigger financial picture. An established manager will always be the preferred route to that end.
Great news. The class of 92, will help keep United's identity and makes sure our flourishing academy product does not get overlooked by foreign players. Moreover, they are well respected by the players, so if Van Gaal is not capable of motivating them, I am sure they can. However, they would need a pen and a notebook when Van gaal speaks because they have alot to learn about his "total football" philosophy.
they will also need Rene to translate ...cause I cant understand a word van Gaal says.
One of the reasons I think Van Gaal is right for the job is because he has a reputation for having a bit of an ego and not taking any shit off anyone.
With this in mind, I have no doubts that he won't give Giggs a role in his coaching team unless he wants to give Giggs a role in his coaching team.
As such, if Giggs stays on as a coach we should get 100% behind him because that means we're 100% behind the new manager. All this crap about Van Gaal being "forced" to take someone on who he doesn't want to work with has to stop. We've no evidence that this is what happened and he's not the type of person to be bullied over something like this.
With this in mind, I have no doubts that he won't give Giggs a role in his coaching team unless he wants to give Giggs a role in his coaching team.
As such, if Giggs stays on as a coach we should get 100% behind him because that means we're 100% behind the new manager. All this crap about Van Gaal being "forced" to take someone on who he doesn't want to work with has to stop. We've no evidence that this is what happened and he's not the type of person to be bullied over something like this.
its a good way to look at it, would have been interesting to note
That is the point. We love SAF, who has now retired, through his choice. As you say if he is missing management, then come out of retirement. Do not give the impression you are manipulating who the manager is to have influence. it is probably a false impression, but it doesn't take much for the press to pick up on even the slightest thing.
It's because van gaal is a proven top class manager who knows what he's doing and he's bringing in top class coaches, and his teams always played good attacking football. Moyes was somebody nobody wanted in the first place, never showed signs of being a united manager and brought in evertons backroom staff even though they played shite football.
I think this answer is very accurate. I'll just add that one of the major selling points of appoint Moyes was the garb of continuity. Hence, he was expected to maintain that while he bedded himself in. Van Gaal would be given a contract under the understanding that he will be doing things his way. Not entirely fair, but hey ho!
The "Fergie undermining Moyes" shit looked like a completely unsubstantiated media driven thing, and we all know how many of the esteemed gentlemen were banned at various stages of their buffoon careers by Sir Alex. They took umbrage with the timing of the book promotion, for heaven's sake.
There's no reason to think that Fergie was anything but supportive to David Moyes. It's clear from Managing My Life that he was well aware of the whole 'Shadow of Busby' effect.
Rather than a hindrance, I think Fergie will be exactly the kind of influence that Van Gaal needs.
There's no reason to think that Fergie was anything but supportive to David Moyes. It's clear from Managing My Life that he was well aware of the whole 'Shadow of Busby' effect.
Rather than a hindrance, I think Fergie will be exactly the kind of influence that Van Gaal needs.
Can somebody offer a suggestion as to why van Gaal will be announced as United manager tomorrow (if true)? It seems odd, as the last home game is over, but the season isn't finished.
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