Politics at Westminster | BREAKING: UKIP
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Why do you want a vote on Europe so badly?
Counting others failures as a success, been a lot of that on the telly this morning. It's the main reason the big 3 failed, they were too bizzy focusing on ukip
On the contrary in fact, i'd suggest that they haven't been focusing on UKIP enough or at least not in a professional manner or one respectful of the potential threat. Neither the Conservatives nor Labour seem prepared to confront them in terms of policy, the Lib Dems made an attempt but to little gain at this point. Such assumes that they are capable of providing the necessary answers or wining the argument.
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stupid question from a foreigner: Why is labor not the clear winner of the election, when they won most seats/councils?
+132 seats and +4 councils looks pretty good?
+132 seats and +4 councils looks pretty good?
Disagree, focused too much
Did the same thing in Holland, all parties telling people why they should not vote for the anti's and not enough on their own view
Just mentioning Farage / ukip every time you open your mouth is just giving them publicity
I didn't vote and probably won't be doing so in the general elections either. I don't feel comfortable with any of the options and I have a cynical distrust of any and all politicians. It seems the options are either racists, slightly less racists, weird coffin zombie lord of the former labour party, the giant hands lied to students party, the useless eco-pansies party, the 'Nigel Farage isn't a member of the BNP'.. BNP party and finally the neckbeard Pirates party, who I would have voted for were they actual Pirates but alas, they're just nerds.
Because, as the official opposition, they should be doing much better than that, in a year before a general election. It wasn't a great result for them, really.
For me the real story here is that the Lib Dems are collapsing.
Highlights the divide between North and South regarding UKIP. Labour need to stop worrying about them and start getting their own act in order.Ousting Milliband may be a start.
Farage is a good sport, you have to give him that. They rip the piss out of him on HIGNFY and he takes it all in good spirits.
UKIP attracts, and will attract, the racist candidate and voter as it's the 'acceptable face' of right wing politics, what ever 'acceptable face' might mean when ascribed to UKIP. The reality is the size of vote for UKIP just shows up this country as populated by a bunch of xenophobic racists, but I've known that for a long time, so it's nothing new. UKIP allows the closet racist to manifest their views in secret, if you will, without actually having to say actual racist stuff, like.
The Empire has gone, it went year's ago, get over it and move on...
UKIP attracts, and will attract, the racist candidate and voter as it's the 'acceptable face' of right wing politics, what ever 'acceptable face' might mean when ascribed to UKIP. The reality is the size of vote for UKIP just shows up this country as populated by a bunch of xenophobic racists, but I've known that for a long time, so it's nothing new. UKIP allows the closet racist to manifest their views in secret, if you will, without actually having to say actual racist stuff, like.
The Empire has gone, it went year's ago, get over it and move on...
xenophobic racists, wow
Wow indeed
tbf, you could say that about pretty much every country that you care to think of.
Because the power centre of it is either unelected or unaccountable. How isn't that undemocratic? @The Mitcher mentioned that our own national government's democratic deficit is more damaging - I might actually agree, but that doesn't invalidate the criticism of the EU.
Not happening. They will probably play a good part in securing a Labour majority next year though.So, it turns out UKIP are actually down on vote share compared to last year. Uhoh.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27543012
The reason i voted ukip.
Would like to point out, thats the title of the video.
The reason i voted ukip.
Would like to point out, thats the title of the video.
I didn't vote ukip and never would, but like the politicians of rival parties, I think you are well out of touch with why they are so 'popular' right now and that kind of attitude just makes it worse.
Sure you are going to get the brainless racist fools jump on board, but this hysteria in the press making it seem like ukip is the racist choice will just incense people more. Perhaps they are better off stop trying to class everyone with an opinion on immigration matters as bigoted, stop lying about numbers and start addressing real concerns.
Like living next door to a Romanian for example?
This country was built on immigration, like it or not. I wouldn't say there should be no controls on immigration whatsoever as the infrastructure needs to be in place to support any influx and it can't really support the people already here as it is.
But to go on about half the crime in Europe, or what ever the figure was, been perpetrated by 240 Romanian criminals is irrelevant. The likelihood of you living next to a British criminal is far more likely than if a Romanian moved in next door, they might happen to be a criminal.
UKIP have gone from 13% to 17% as the Lib Dem vote has collapsed (as predicted) and won no councils, hardly earthshattering.
what do they say? Can't have sound on at work.
See you can't help youself. Nothing you said there is relevant to what I said.
Well done on proving my point.
I'm not sure what your point is.
UKIP aren't actually a bunch of racists? I agree with you, but they attract them. They will try to eject racist candidates and distance themselves from racist views, but much of their support comes form the closet racist which is inside many British people, like it or not. People aren't anti-Europe solely because of the control of Brussels, but because they don't like foreigners coming here & taking our jobs, stealing our women, not speaking our language and with their strange religions & customs.
And you can't spell 'yourself'.
I see the big UKIP turnout as more than a protest vote - it's an anti-government vote. There is no distinction between New Labour and the tories, they both lie, dissemble, blame each other for their failings and generally behave in a way that turns people off politics entirely. Whatever you think of Farage, he's obviously touched a nerve with his blokey demeanour and frank talking.
The problem with politics is that there are huge barriers to entry. If you really want to become an MP and try to make a difference you really have to work your way through the system, starting with district councils and all the countless, anti-social hours that involves, or go to Eton and be parachuted in to a safe seat through daddy's connections. Either way, teachers, nurses, cleaners have no chance of becoming one. Parliament is utterly unrepresentative of the general population. Then even if you do somehow get in to a position of power with good intentions to carry out socially and economically responsible policies you end up having to make compromise after compromise to keep the treasury, your party and, perhaps most importantly your donors, happy. It's a crap system but sadly there probably isn't a better one.
The problem with politics is that there are huge barriers to entry. If you really want to become an MP and try to make a difference you really have to work your way through the system, starting with district councils and all the countless, anti-social hours that involves, or go to Eton and be parachuted in to a safe seat through daddy's connections. Either way, teachers, nurses, cleaners have no chance of becoming one. Parliament is utterly unrepresentative of the general population. Then even if you do somehow get in to a position of power with good intentions to carry out socially and economically responsible policies you end up having to make compromise after compromise to keep the treasury, your party and, perhaps most importantly your donors, happy. It's a crap system but sadly there probably isn't a better one.
I'm not sure what your point is.
UKIP aren't actually a bunch of racists? I agree with you, but they attract them. They will try to eject racist candidates and distance themselves from racist views, but much of their support comes form the closet racist which is inside many British people, like it or not. People aren't anti-Europe solely because of the control of Brussels, but because they don't like foreigners coming here & taking our jobs, stealing our women, not speaking our language and with their strange religions & customs.
And you can't spell 'yourself'.
But you have to look into the causes of why they think like this. But I'm coming from a position of actually hiring Romanian workers this year so perhaps it's a pointless exercise in speaking from experience anyway, because the second I open my mouth and speak about the issues I suppose like you've already done you'll have a pre-conceived notion in your head anyway.
And that's not meant to be a dig at you, it is what it is. But like I say and as has already been proven with your first reply to me, just like the politicians clearly are, far too many people are out of touch with the real issues and underlying problems and would rather stick to stereotyping people for who they vote for and even worse, for having an opinion borne out of experience. Most people I know who voted Ukip have done so for that very actual reason, having no voice.
Vicious circle and all that.
Yes, this is more like it.
Why does everyone call Farage the "alternative" when he's a former Tory? UKIP's politics are exactly in line with Conservative politics with the exception of one subject. Saying that they're completely different to the other parties because of their stance on Europe is like saying Labour are completely different because of their stance on the NHS, or Conservatives and their stance on the free market.
Delighted that Labour won Hammersmith. I know everyone worked really hard on the campaign and various local battles over the past few years.
People aren't voting UKIP for their policies, not really. I'm really excited that they seem to have reached a critical mass of support but not because I agree with their policies but because this might actually lead to 4 party politics in this country and that scares the other three shitless. Tories and New Labour thought they'd crushed the Libs but now there's a new kid on the block and they are going to have to sort themselves out since UKIP seem to be stealing votes from both of them.
Not that ultimately it will make much difference. Political parties don't write their manifestos based on what's best for the country, they write them to garner the most votes and frankly the general public don't know what's best for them.
What we really need is a benign dictatorship.
There have been more benign kings and queens than benign dictators though. Maybe we should give Charlie a go at being absolute monarch, he seems like a harmless old buffer.
Not sure why people think UKIP have to win an election to make a big impact. If they get 15% at the general election next year, it really will be a political earthquake. They've never been a real factor at the national level before, now they most certainly are.
As an aside, it's also fairly likely they're going to come out top when the European result is released on sunday.
Except we don't really need a fourth right or centre right party
We desperately need a shake up of the parties. The best long term effect UKIP can have is to destabilise the system enough that the big parties, or at least one of them, favour a move to PR.
What about the EU isnt elected?Because the power centre of it is either unelected or unaccountable. How isn't that undemocratic? @The Mitcher mentioned that our own national government's democratic deficit is more damaging - I might actually agree, but that doesn't invalidate the criticism of the EU.
Exactly. UKIP's policies are almost irrelevant. It's the fact that they're at the table that's significant. I used to be dead against PR and I still don't think it's ideal, but first the post seems desperately unfair if you're polling 30% of votes with nothing to show for it. Imagine a parliament made of of a mixture of Con, Lab, Lib, UKIP, Green and independent MPs. How much do you think will actually get done? Deals will have to be cut all over the place ("You can have your increased minimum wage as long as we can keep our tax cuts for high earners" etc). On the other hand, it might lead to some proper long-term planning since all parties know that realistically they will never have an overall majority.
Something fairly drastic needs to happen to politics in this country to break us out of this tedious cycle.
It's easy to be populist when you don't have any policies. It also helps that they vaguely float policy ideas that they can then either quietly confirm or expressly deny depending on who they're talking to, that way they can be everyone's friend.
Not having any real power works for UKIP as well, since they don't have to actually do any governing, and therefore don't need any consistent policies.
Not having any real power works for UKIP as well, since they don't have to actually do any governing, and therefore don't need any consistent policies.
I can assure you, that PR-vote doesnt lead to elaborate long-term decision. Its one and the same thing.
The BBC were saying 200 gains would be a good result before the counts. Labour have gained nearly 300 so far. It definitely wasn't the disaster that the media were trying to portray it as on the basis of two towns reporting early yesterday morning.
It's certainly improved. I agree, not a disaster. Just a disappointing performance, in the grand scheme of things, but probably about what they were realistically hoping for, before the voting.