Why the 70s? Was that a thing back then?
Backlash after WC rape jokes flood Twitter
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Why the 70s? Was that a thing back then?
Surely 'rape' can be used in a different context? As in 'it was the rape of the rainforest' - a destruction.
I remember when gay meant happy. And when the meaning of tradegy was ' a goat song'.
Other than referring to the stuff with yellow flowers that you make oil from, I think it's all rather distasteful.
A 1-7 loss at home in a World Cup semifinal definitely warrants the term 'raped'. Not sure what constitutes an "acceptable" term, but it's an apt one. Graphic pics and gifs of actual sexual assault though? Different story, and definitely unacceptable.
Why the 70s? Was that a thing back then?
I think so, yes. In fact, social anthropologists believe that, even to this day, tribes of men untouched by modern civilisation gather together on the fringes of society and mumble in a curious language about 'feminists', 'pc gone mad' and 'the loss of our soshul libertees' etc. Ever more left behind by progress and the social niceties which are the very glue of community, ignoble savages like these are apparently doomed to extinction at the hands of those who possess a conscience. Still, they'll always have those Chubby Brown vhs's to keep them warm in the glow of their arrogance.
Well said.
I personally don't like use of word 'rape' for football match results. It is indeed awful but then I agree that phrases like 'Team A murdered Team B' should also be looked in same negative manner.
You can call that Canola now.
If folk are getting desensitised, it's hardly their fault is it.
I'm a kid of the 80s so I don't really know what was going on in the 70s, hell I barely know what was socially acceptable in the 80s apart from shitty haircuts and funny cloths. But I think I get what you mean, albeit a few of my professors would probably argue there is no such thing as a backwards culture they just developed differently but are at the same development stage, or something like that, I never fully understood the point they were making but anyways this was more in relation to western cultures claming that oriental cultures were stuck in the middle ages but I'm just rambling at this point and will therefor stop.
Language does change, historically that's been relatively slowly and has usually allowed society long enough to come to a consensus about how to treat the change. The mass media was controlled by a relatively small group. Decisions made by an organisation like the BBC almost defined standards for what was every day (pre-9pm), what was for adults in dramatic situations only (post 9pm) and what didn't get broadcast.
People learn to moderate their language and conduct according to time, place and the people around them. Even people whose every other word is an expletive in one context usually learn to control it in the workplace, when the kids are around and in other situations. We self-censor. We learn to self-censor from the reactions of those around us and sometimes from actual reprimands from parents, teachers and others.
Times have changed. The internet doesn't censor. People test the boundaries. The use of rape to describe a football match? Ten or twenty years ago? Well, no - not even on MOTD, not even in The Sun. I don't even remember it in football grounds, though maybe some in a beer filled haze used the analogy in some places, in the presence of some people. But the internet isn't in some places, in the presence of some people - it's everywhere.
If people don't know how to self-censor, because the situation is too new, then the complaints have to be broadcast. There's no equivalent of a warning shake of the head from a friend, a shocked look from your mother or a nasty glare from a stranger on the internet. Someone has to broadcast it back at you in words. Sometimes, if the hint doesn't get taken and it's a private forum someone may even have to say, "it's not allowed."
People learn to moderate their language and conduct according to time, place and the people around them. Even people whose every other word is an expletive in one context usually learn to control it in the workplace, when the kids are around and in other situations. We self-censor. We learn to self-censor from the reactions of those around us and sometimes from actual reprimands from parents, teachers and others.
Times have changed. The internet doesn't censor. People test the boundaries. The use of rape to describe a football match? Ten or twenty years ago? Well, no - not even on MOTD, not even in The Sun. I don't even remember it in football grounds, though maybe some in a beer filled haze used the analogy in some places, in the presence of some people. But the internet isn't in some places, in the presence of some people - it's everywhere.
If people don't know how to self-censor, because the situation is too new, then the complaints have to be broadcast. There's no equivalent of a warning shake of the head from a friend, a shocked look from your mother or a nasty glare from a stranger on the internet. Someone has to broadcast it back at you in words. Sometimes, if the hint doesn't get taken and it's a private forum someone may even have to say, "it's not allowed."
Most rape in the 70's was what the woman was looking for anyway?
I've never liked the term used metaphorically, casually or loosely. I have a really close friend who went from bubbly and confident to a bag of nerves with a huge loss in quality of life after a rape. I baulk when I hear the word, especially in her company.
I think the dictionary gives a few informal uses for murder, such as hard or unpleasant work, not so with rape as far as I know.
I've never liked the term used metaphorically, casually or loosely. I have a really close friend who went from bubbly and confident to a bag of nerves with a huge loss in quality of life after a rape. I baulk when I hear the word, especially in her company.
I think the dictionary gives a few informal uses for murder, such as hard or unpleasant work, not so with rape as far as I know.
I think it's a chicken and egg situation, it's part of a cycle, while the tweeting may not cause the desensitising, it certainly doesn't help?
This was one of the unforseen dangers of selling soccer to the yanks. Nuked indeed.
I think this is a central point.
I don't see this phenomenon of wide swathes of people not taking rape seriously. Rape is right up there with murder in terms of stigma on the convict, punishment (up to and including life imprisonment or the death sentence), and even after release you're branded for life. It's a huge fecking deal to rape someone in Western society. It's not possible for rape to lose it's horror due to a few tweets and words and movies and other things. I just can't see it. Am I sheltered? Are there pockets of civilization in the west where rape is dismissed casaully?
I'm sorry to hear that. Did she talk to a professional afterwards? The psychological issues caused by violation of one's body are too severe to be dealt with alone.
So you honestly think there's a widespread longstanding problem in society of people not taking rape seriously enough?
Below is one online dictionary's definition or rape. Obviously as most of us know the most common usage is related to the violent sexual crime, but there is also the definition that does not pertain to that. Take as an example the movie Jurassic Park, in one seen Jeff Goldblum's character is talking about the morality of science and refers to the "rape of the natural world" which I always took to more go along with meanings #4 and #7 below, not the violent sex crime.
So for me it depends on which meaning they are alluding to when they say Brazil was raped, the sex crime or more going for the other meaning.
So for me it depends on which meaning they are alluding to when they say Brazil was raped, the sex crime or more going for the other meaning.
It obviously is, historically speaking. And in many parts of the world it's still a big problem.
Do you...not?
What about violence in general?
Using violent language as a metaphor (i.e. 'let's batter them)' is surely comparable, yet nobody would object to that.
To answer your last question, definitely. Except I'd say it's quite widespread, not just pockets of civilization.
When one of the first questions that is asked is 'what was the victim wearing/doing'. Or when, if a woman comes forward claiming to have been raped by a celebrity/famous sports star a lot of the reactions from people are that she's lying/doing it for the attention. Or the incredibly fecked up way that male rape is treated in general. Rape is definitely treated casually.
Aye - but the other meaning doesn't fit the bill when what is described is, in fact, a football team comprehensively beating another football team. There's no violation involved.
"They raped his rights." You can certainly say that without trivializing rape because it's clear that you consider the act (the violation of his rights) to be something negative. Germany raping Brazil isn't considered negative, though. It's considered a show of force - regarded as something impressive.
In the US, rape -- in the literal sense -- is an epidemic on university campuses, as any google check will confirm.
I've never thought it about it seriously until this thread, but all of us really should banish the words rape, murder and kill from our football vocabulary.
I've never thought it about it seriously until this thread, but all of us really should banish the words rape, murder and kill from our football vocabulary.
Well, maybe we dipped them in tempura and deep fried them.
We should be able to express ourselves as we like. If you try to suppress the freedom of language, you suppress the freedom of thought. I don't know why people have suddenly decided that they have a right to police how we think and how we use our language to express those thoughts.
It's a fair point but we need to consider the current definition. Like the word gay, which can still be definied as happy, but is scarcely ever used in that context anymore.
Well SOME individuals in our society don't take rape serious enough... but do we take rape serious enough as a society?
I do think so. If somebody is convicted of rape he'll be in prison for a very very long time. Righfully so. I do not personally know anybody who wouldn't take rape very serious... so no, in general I do not think that it is taken any less serious than murder.
(I know you will always find one old lunatic saying "she was looking for it", but they're on the fringe of society, not at the center of it. And i've never heard something like that from anyone I would take seriously)
Is it just me or First World Countries make a big deal out of everything.
Language has nothing to do with the actual reality. What i mean by that is we use slang in our everyday life. If we stopped using words in such way the language would become so boring that i would need to murd... commit suic... take my own life.
Language has nothing to do with the actual reality. What i mean by that is we use slang in our everyday life. If we stopped using words in such way the language would become so boring that i would need to murd... commit suic... take my own life.
Are you talking about the US and the UK? That's the only places I can think off. The US still jokes about everything. I only need to give South Park as an example and their show spans 17 seasons and is about as funny as it gets. They're only limited by their broadcaster which basically means don't swear, a lot. Only a bit.
A society that rejects someone because of a joke needs to get its head checked. It's fine to be disappointed at people who make a joke that's not funny. A lot of people are not funny at all and when they turn to subjects like rape it gets plain awkward and looks bad but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
The only reason you don't joke about something is out of respect towards other people who don't appreciate it and have asked not to do it. That's called courtesy. Most people possess it. Some lose it from time to time but that doesn't mean they are bad people.
Isn't the full disclosure that you were renamed that because you made a thread entitled 'I, Randall Flagg, am a homophobe'?
We constantly self censor how we speak - well most people do anyway. On the internet some people's ability to self censor breaks down and there's no mum/dad/best mate stood next to you to give you a silent look that says, "You've gone too far." It all has to be done in words.
I don't know if you're serious or not. In case you are, the discussion was regarding the outside world, not this forum. I'm perfectly aware of the rules on this forum.
Obviously race, gender, and sexual orientation have become off limits. The metaphorical use of rape is basically a way of women saying they don't appreciate it.
But that IS the current definition... It is predominantly used to describe one thing... but not solely.
Would anybody be offended by "Germany decimated Brazil"?
Not sure I'm following...I was referring to the list that Justy posted where it indicated the archaic definiton of rape as being to carry off by force etc, where as the current or at least common definition is primarily concerened with sexual assault.
And, no I don't think anoyone would be offended by the use of decimated to refer to the result. In fact, I think people prefer to use words like rape, murder for their shock value, which is positively low brow. I'd be more impressed that they demonstrated an extensive vocabulary.
Second sentence is the reason why I think many people chose rape jokes for this particular reason, because it's such a strong word. "Germany just murdered Brazil!" doesnt quite have the same ring to it. I also don't believe that just because people use the word 'rape' in a joke that they don't realize how horrible the crime is. At the end of the day, it was just a joke, and intended so. We should start to be concerned when rape jokes are used far too often and too lightly, to the point where it desensitizes the word. Personally I don't do rape jokes but Brazil shipping a record breaking 7 goals does seem unique enough to warrant it.
The sheer fact that we're even discussing this shows that rape is rarely taken seriously enough by men.
If we live alongside other human beings, then we have to compromise on many things; and a big part of living in a community is the consideration of others.
If we live alongside other human beings, then we have to compromise on many things; and a big part of living in a community is the consideration of others.
South Park is satire though. It's not offensive for the sake of it, like er...Chubby Brown and his ilk.