More proof that first of all it doesn't work without at least one seriously good central midfielder and secondly it doesn't work in this league. Lastly it doesn't work when 2 out of your 3 centre backs are shite.
So the 3-5-2
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Philosophy lol. feck this off ASAP.
No it's not. Have you seen us play last year? We never played with 3 at the back and yet we looked equally wank.
Systems and formations and their effect are overrated. It's about playing well, and most of our players simply aren't doing that. If we had played 4-3-3 or whatever formation, we would've been just as sh1te today, no doubts about that.
It's not working, the wingers/wingbacks are never far enough up the pitch to get in behind defenders and we don't play strikers that can go wide and take on defenders and attack them like wingers.
This formation does not streach defences enough and gives us to few passing options in the final Third.
Can't see how this formation fit our team more than a 4-3-3.
This formation does not streach defences enough and gives us to few passing options in the final Third.
Can't see how this formation fit our team more than a 4-3-3.
This game is the nail in the coffin.
With Valencia and Young it's just suicidal. Can't win a game playing 3-5-2 with utterly worthless wing backs, in an attacking sense.
Valencia especially is just too thick to play in this sort of system. You can see he hasn't got a clue where he should be and thats before you even get to his walking-pace movement on the ball and shambolic crossing.
It's also getting the worst out of Mata, rather than allowing him to play at his best. He needs players moving around him whereas right now all he has are two static targets, because the wing backs are never where they should be and, Di Maria aside, the midfielders aren't getting up alongside him.
With Valencia and Young it's just suicidal. Can't win a game playing 3-5-2 with utterly worthless wing backs, in an attacking sense.
Valencia especially is just too thick to play in this sort of system. You can see he hasn't got a clue where he should be and thats before you even get to his walking-pace movement on the ball and shambolic crossing.
It's also getting the worst out of Mata, rather than allowing him to play at his best. He needs players moving around him whereas right now all he has are two static targets, because the wing backs are never where they should be and, Di Maria aside, the midfielders aren't getting up alongside him.
Aye, agree with those issues. The wingbacks in particular just don't offer close to enough going forward or in possession.
Another issue is that the defence is not comfortable on the ball at the moment. We're supposed to be building from the back but they just can't keep the ball in a capable way, far too often they resort to smashing it long up the pitch.
They really, really struggle when pressed by the opposition. When teams used to try and press Barcelona it would never work because they were so good on the ball at the back that they could pass around any press, so you had to sit back. With us our defenders just can't deal with it and they either lose the ball when pressured or hoof it long.
Joke is over now, stop it.
Had it with this system. Can't play it with the player we've got. You can't play it with the crap out wide we have and the CB's aren't good enough and brave enough on the ball.
Yeah. It might be possible with all our best players fit. But persevering with the system when we're having to play 3-4 players out of position and fielding 3 super slow boys up front it's just bonkers.
Mata, Rooney and RVP don't work together and there is no system to make them work because all three of them like to play centrally and they all lack pace and ability to play wide. That's my point.
Such an awful setup at the moment, we have created very few chances chances in all 4 games, the strikers are completely wasted.
I am fed up of this formation. Pre season was clearly a fluke run, add to that we didn't play with the slowest front 3.
Van Gaal is too stubborn to just say lets move on
Van Gaal is too stubborn to just say lets move on
I begin to hate it tbh. Any formation that means starting Valencia should be out of consideration anyway.
Our players are too fecking thick to understand this system it seems.
Surely it's clear to the manager himself that until everyone's back fit, it's pointless attempting this, and even when that happens, it's still a questionable formation with the options available 
Are you forgetting Ashley young?
I've decided that 3-5-2 simply isn't suited to a team that is expected to dominate. Against defensive teams they flood the centre, meaning you have to use the wings. By only having one on each wing then no overlaps are possible and you can't outnumber them in the wide areas or in the centre.
The only way around this is to have an excellent midfield as Juve do. They don't have great wingers, nor amazing strikers however they are able to manoeuvre the ball around quickly and accurate to break down teams in the centre with quick one twos etc.
United simply don't have the players to do it.
The only way around this is to have an excellent midfield as Juve do. They don't have great wingers, nor amazing strikers however they are able to manoeuvre the ball around quickly and accurate to break down teams in the centre with quick one twos etc.
United simply don't have the players to do it.
I personally think they have shown to work excellently together on plenty of occasions already, playing from the centre. The problem is just that every match we have 3-6 players, Blackett, Fletcher, De Gea, Evans Valencia and Young today, who are not up to it. Our football was so ridiculously dire today, hoofing balls, no movement in midfield aside Di Maria, we simply never got in into the final third until the 80th minute.
Once we get the ball there, you will see how well they will work out together. When 50% of your team is getting outplayed by a Championship-level team, you know that time it is and even some of the best attacking players in the world will look clueless.
Okay, someone needs to convince me here. How do we change to 4 in the back without fullbacks?
All of our fullbacks are injured or haven't finished signings.
All of our fullbacks are injured or haven't finished signings.
Who gives a shit? Blackett is a LB by nature, and we had plenty of people playing at RB in last few years. Not ideal, but a hell lot better than this 3-5-2 shite.
LVG can stick his philosophical 352 up his hole anyway, if he is the great manager we think he is surely he'll notice its a complete disaster! and we can't continue to bring up how well it worked in preseason.
If all our players are fit then fine, go for it, but they are not so change it, for christ's sake. The supposed plus points of this formation, that we can get Rooney, RVP and Mata in the team at the same time, and that our wingers aren't good enough doesn't really stand up any more. Rooney, RVP and Mata have been isolated from most of our play with the exception of hoofs up to them and when they have gotten the ball they've been horrible. And we've just spent 60m on a world class winger to play him in central midfield. It's ludicrous, especially as it means one of our only bright sparks from last season, Januzaj, is stuck on the bench. Worst of all though is that we are putting ourselves in a situation where we have to play both of Valencia and Young, but out of position.
I thought 4-3-3 was the long term goal for Van Gaal and 3-5-2 was a temporary solution because of our personnel. Well 3-5-2 doesn't look like being the solution to anything.
I thought 4-3-3 was the long term goal for Van Gaal and 3-5-2 was a temporary solution because of our personnel. Well 3-5-2 doesn't look like being the solution to anything.
Completely agree. Even though on paper we had Di Maria, Rooney, RVP and Mata playing, this formation means that they always get the ball surrounded by 2-4 men.
The 'wingbacks' are shite wingers and even worse as wingbacks. Neither can defend nor attack and they are left in between the attack and defence.
This is going to be a long season unless we change formation soon.
I say drop one of Rooney/RVP and play Januzaj and Di Maria on the wings - at least that way we can stretch attacks. Rooney and RVP are not quick enough to play in a system without wingers.
We'd have to throw Jones/Smalling ( jk, injured ) to the RB and probably play James on the left wing. But they hey, we still don't have people in midfield so we'd be fecked anyway.
The excuse of not having the players for a 433 isn't really going to work now. It's saving Van Gaal from making a decision between Van Persie, Rooney and Mata.
Great teams have used 3-5-2 successfully to be fair.
Agree with the second point though that defensive teams just flood the centre - That's our biggest problem. They flood the centre around Mata/Rooney/Van Persie and leave space on the flanks yet we have nothing to threaten them there. The wingbacks are so important in this system and we just don't have capable ones in Young and Valencia.
I think you also need defenders better on the ball. In this system they're going to see a lot of it and at the moment our centre backs do not look comfortable in possession.
I think the system needs to go. Our wing backs don't get up the field quicker or higher enough and our strikers aren't mobile enough to work the channels where the spaces are.
Till the come back of Rafael, I'd be happy to play Valencia as a full back. James/Blackett as the left back.
3-5-2 isn't working so far because:
1-We don't have good wingbacks.
2-It was meant to allow rooney, rvp an mata to play in their comfortable positions and they never looked more uncomfortable.
3-Once our injured players come back we'll find ourselves forced to drop either mata or herrara to accommodate di maria.
4- Van gaal made it clear that he prefers 4-3-3, it doesn't seem to me that this squad is suited to 3-5-2 at all, so what's the point?
1-We don't have good wingbacks.
2-It was meant to allow rooney, rvp an mata to play in their comfortable positions and they never looked more uncomfortable.
3-Once our injured players come back we'll find ourselves forced to drop either mata or herrara to accommodate di maria.
4- Van gaal made it clear that he prefers 4-3-3, it doesn't seem to me that this squad is suited to 3-5-2 at all, so what's the point?
Can we have LvG's quote about 4-3-3 in font size 72 text where the RedCafe logo is?
Another pathetic performance, have never seen any utd side play so poorly in 4 successive games especially against such average opposition. It's laughable we are playing this formation when we don't have the right players for it, even when we have all our players back we still won't have any quality out wide or any pace, skill and flair in the final third. We are so easy to play against even for the worst sides in the division and would be torn apart by any top half side.
Bin this fecking bullshit!
Unless we play with very pacey wingbacks, we are going to struggle with 3-5-2. It all gets very crowdy and messy in midfield.
Most teams that I recall using it with success have done so with a more fluid system with players popping up in more than one place. United seem quite rigid in where they are positioned.
Agree about defenders being comfortable in possession, however what is also key for the system is one midfielder dropping deep demanding the ball. Scholes would literally be perfect for it.
I think he'll try Herrera in midfield for Fletcher.
We need to scrap this shit and go with 4-3-3. It's not working and our players look totally clueless even if Rojo, Blind, Herrera, Shaw and most likely Rafael will be getting back into the team after the international break.
It simply isn't going to work with the players we have available. There exists the possibility that with everyone fit and the optimal first XI it would, but it just seems unlikely that will happen.
Even we play 4-3-3 ... he still may try them as well. So it doesn't change.
The players don't look comfortable at all. The defense is all over the place, the midfield neither protecting or creating and our two strikers isolated. We're relying on two the same wingers as last year to create chances only they also have to defend a lot more as they're not playing as wingbacks.
With the players available I just can't see how 3-5-2 is the best way to set out. With Rafa and Shaw back, two players more comfortable in those wing back roles it might make a difference.
Those full backs are a disaster. We'll leak goals and everyone will ask for three at the back again.