Why all the pessimism?

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Seriously?

if you read through the threads in here a lot of what you see is moaning and whining and threads about United losing their identity and soul etc. It's almost as depressing as listening to Episode 4 of the podcast. :lol:

After last season, where I felt United had gone from a world beating family with a leader with the influence of Ghandi to a complete laughing stock with a leader like George W Bush. United employed a manager who was completely unproven outside the top 7 of the premier league and had bought Fellaini as their one and only big name signing. This summer we had LvG who came on the back of a HUGE reputation world wide AND a 3rd place in the world Cup with probably the worst and most underrated Dutch side in present memory.

United dominated pre season and then came unstuck in the admittedly trickier and less relaxed Premier League. However, the injury list was huge, including two of our biggest signings of the summer and one more of those couldn't play due to work permit and ownership issues. Then United go and buy one of THE absolute best players on the planet and are slated because he was not needed and too expensive. Despite the fact we still have Valencia and Young. Then united go and get rid of a lot of players that have underperformed and been slated here in the forums for ages.

Then united sign Falcao.

And still people are not happy. Losing identity, another big club like Citeh and Ch£l$ki etc.

Sorry but bollocks to all that. United have earned their money, they have neglected their squad and have fallen behind. Times have changed and LvG a WORLD CLASS MANAGER has come in and seen that. He has given everyone a fair chance and made his decisions. Yet people still moan. The same people who moaned about Ed Woodward not spending enough now moan about spending too much or not how they wanted to. Probably the same ones moaning we got Blind and Rojo instead of Vidal and Hummels. The same people no doubt who were slating Fergie for not buying true world class players, or neglecting the squad. Now LvG is wrong for spending too much and buying players that he likes and that fit his philosophy and system, and some of them are true world class players. But he is still taking stick, hilariously for not buying what United need. To think LvG doesn't see what united needs is even funnier. Add to that he is slated now for not giving youth a chance yet having played Reece James and promoting Tyler Blackett and Lingard who unfortunately got injured. Not to mention getting rid of most of the players that everyone here and elsewhere were slating big time. Fickle fans, fickle thinking and too many quick to jump on the bandwagon.

It's indicative of the generation who want everything now, their way and nothing else. Those that know only FIFA and Football manager and United winning. Not those that know what it's like to see your biggest rivals dominate for years and not knowing what it's like to take oppositions fans and your mates shite relentlessly. United don't have a divine right to win. But United do have an obligation to us as fans to play to their best ability, to give 100% and to try to entertain as well as perform. Winning is an added bonus. But we as fans have an obligation to support our team through thick and thin. And that means now. Of course we can object and criticise but let's be at least objective and fair about it.

I personally think we have done well this transfer window, beyond my expectations and are well on the right track. As LvG said, it's a project. It takes time. And I for one am liking the way this project is going and am certainly far happier than this time last year. Yes we have massive frailties and have problems in defence and midfield, but let's wait until we see our new players all fit or starting games before we judge. Blind and Rojo might be exactly what we need. If not i'm sure it will be sorted in January or even next summer. I have patience, I have faith, and I am optimistic. At the very worst at least we are all paying to watch true world class players again and some might say, like never before. I can't wait for the QPR game and can't wait for the rest of the season and win or lose will be supporting the boys and the manager. And unlike the title of this thread I will be forever OPTIMISTIC! and forever United!

Sod all the pessimism let's have some optimistic posts for a change. Sarcastic and piss taking posts are also welcome and completely inevitable. :lol:
 
Because critisizing, giving negative input, seeing problems that isn't there is considered by many as "More intellectual" than simply "YAY! We signed 6 first team players"

And over the years, the caf has been the place of critics, it subconsciously things that the caf is somehow more knowledgeable and that a simple "Happy with the squad" is a comment spouted at the lesser fans forum only.

Basically, IMHO people just tend to critics for the sake of critisizing, it makes them looks smart.

/sarcasm off

EDIT: Even when we won the trophies, there's not many threads of joy popping up. But try selling the local kids, we have 9 threads of similar tone complaining

Buying Falcao and Di Maria = 3 threads
Selling Welbeck = 9 threads

People just love to complain
 
Because despite signing great players, we're still a mess and didn't address our glaring weaknesses.

Because despite having a world class manager, we've not won a match against opponents we should be beating and the football we've played has been very similar to that under the manager we sacked for playing like shite last year...
 
The pessimism is really nauseating. Just shows that people will find something to complain about despite this being one of our most productive windows ever.
 
matherto said:
Because despite signing great players, we're still a mess and didn't address our glaring weaknesses.

Because despite having a world class manager, we've not won a match against opponents we should be beating and the football we've played has been very similar to that under the manager we sacked for playing like shite last year...
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But... but... he's a hardworking honest catholic chap from Scotland... surely... somehow?
 
matherto said:
Because despite signing great players, we're still a mess and didn't address our glaring weaknesses.

Because despite having a world class manager, we've not won a match against opponents we should be beating and the football we've played has been very similar to that under the manager we sacked for playing like shite last year...
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To counterbalance that. Van Gaal is a proven, world class manager, who's already admitted that our start will be very tough. Not because we aren't good enough but because his system/philosophy takes a lot of getting used to. We've also just signed the best winger and best number 9 in world football and strengthened with some very good players. Rojo is a cracking player who is already a lovable mad bastard, Blind, Shaw and Herrera are 3 relatively young, talented and promising players, with Blind being an expert on Van Gall's philosophy and a very good utility player, as well as actually being an improvement on what we already have in midfield.

The football we're playing is pretty bad but not because (like last year) we have no structure, no system and no ideas, its the opposite, we're getting used to a way of playing, that when done right, will see some brilliant attacking football and us controlling the majority of the games we play.
 
It's just far easier to be pessimistic than optimistic. If you're an optimist, you naturally get your hopes up which means you enjoy the highs more but there's also a much bigger come down when things don't go your way.
 
Raoul said:
The pessimism is really nauseating. Just shows that people will find something to complain about despite this being one of our most productive windows ever.
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we haven't really had a great window. not addressed midfield at all apart from another Felliani-like signing. And we have gone full-on short-termist by paying for a mercenary whose demands no-one was able to meet. We seem to have manager who in his present role seems to be afraid of dropping big names, and is just going by reputation.

It isn't nauseating.

What is nauseating is banging on about midfield, and then jumping for joy just because the management has tried to boost its own ego by going for big names, without any viable plan as to fit everyone.

It is nauseating that being told how you you have to feel about the actions of the club. The fact that you think that this has been a productive window, doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way. Just because you are swayed by the names, not everybody has to. So get off your high horse and stop labeling what you don't understand.
 
sajeev said:
we haven't really had a great window. not addressed midfield at all apart from another Felliani-like signing. And we have gone full-on short-termist by paying for a mercenary whose demands no-one was able to meet. We seem to have manager who in his present role seems to be afraid of dropping big names, and is just going by reputation.

It isn't nauseating.

What is nauseating is banging on about midfield, and then jumping for joy just because the management has tried to boost its own ego by going for big names, without any viable plan as to fit everyone.

It is nauseating that being told how you you have to feel about the actions of the club. The fact that you think that this has been a productive window, doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way. Just because you are swayed by the names, not everybody has to. So get off your high horse and stop labeling what you don't understand.
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Get a grip. I'll let Van Gaal decide what our top priorities are, as no one on a football forum knows what we need more than he does. It is quite nauseating to hear the insufferably tedious moaning about how the club's record spending this window has someone been disappointing because we didn't sign their ideal players of choice.
 
Impatience is a major issue IMO. No one wants to wait for the process to start taking form. We could buy Messi and Hummels and Ronaldo and appoint Klopp/ Guardiola/ Jose but the results won't improve all of a sudden. There are no quick fixes to problems as elaborate as the ones concerning our squad. Not only did the manager need to makes a lot of signings, the players' lack of direction and confidence had to be addressed too. But no. We want it all to improve NOW ! To illustrate the point here's are examples from this very thread :

Because despite having a world class manager, we've not won a match against opponents we should be beating and the football we've played has been very similar to that under the manager we sacked for playing like shite last year...
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And this utter masterpiece of a post :

we haven't really had a great window. not addressed midfield at all apart from another Felliani-like signing. And we have gone full-on short-termist by paying for a mercenary whose demands no-one was able to meet. We seem to have manager who in his present role seems to be afraid of dropping big names, and is just going by reputation.

It isn't nauseating.

What is nauseating is banging on about midfield, and then jumping for joy just because the management has tried to boost its own ego by going for big names, without any viable plan as to fit everyone.

It is nauseating that being told how you you have to feel about the actions of the club. The fact that you think that this has been a productive window, doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way. Just because you are swayed by the names, not everybody has to. So get off your high horse and stop labeling what you don't understand.
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It's been 4 competitive games yet and we have 10 players out through injury including all of our new signings. But thanks for keeping perspective.
 
We got a DM in, a CB in, we got our fullbacks back, we got the potential for a proper midfield two. We got several world class players in our team. We have a top manager. We got players in who really want to play for us, so there are a lot of positives.
 
iBoss said:
We got a DM in, a CB in, we got our fullbacks back, we got the potential for a proper midfield two. We got several world class players in our team. We have a top manager. We got players in who really want to play for us, so there are a lot of positives.
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They are mostly positives, particularly when you consider Strootman may be in the cards for January or next summer, along with more defenders in the summer 2015 window.
 
iBoss said:
We got a DM in, a CB in, we got our fullbacks back, we got the potential for a proper midfield two. We got several world class players in our team. We have a top manager. We got players in who really want to play for us, so there are a lot of positives.
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I'm saving my optimism for when we show it on the pitch, not only on paper and in the account books.
 
Raoul said:
Get a grip. I'll let Van Gaal decide what our top priorities are, as no one on a football forum knows what we need more than he does. It is quite nauseating to hear the insufferably tedious moaning about how the club's record spending this window has someone been disappointing because we didn't sign their ideal players of choice.
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i guess you thought the same way when Moyes was in charge. He definitely should know better than any of us. Fergie should have fixed midfield long back. He didn't. Wasn't Fergie world-class?

Just because you are satisfied not everyone has to. I don't care much for transfers, but was definitely excited by the Di Maria signing. But there have been a lot of things which give people legitimate cause for pessimism.

Why have a forum at all, if you can't discuss this. And if you do find it nauseating, you needn't open the thread, or in your case lock it.

Stop moaning about the moaning. It is equally nauseating
 
Invictus said:
It's been 4 competitive games yet and we have 10 players out through injury including all of our new signings. But thanks for keeping perspective.
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what does that have to do with anything i posted?
 
sajeev said:
what does that have to do with anything i posted?
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Who said it did ? Twas' was just a general statement. Your post was quoted merely as an exhibit of shitneness.
 
sajeev said:
i guess you thought the same way when Moyes was in charge. He definitely should know better than any of us. Fergie should have fixed midfield long back. He didn't. Wasn't Fergie world-class?

Just because you are satisfied not everyone has to. I don't care much for transfers, but was definitely excited by the Di Maria signing. But there have been a lot of things which give people legitimate cause for pessimism.

Why have a forum at all, if you can't discuss this. And if you do find it nauseating, you needn't open the thread, or in your case lock it.

Stop moaning about the moaning. It is equally nauseating
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No I didn't think the same when Moyes was in charge because he had feck all on his CV compared to Van Gaal - so the comparison isn't even remotely credible.

You have a right to moan, just as others have a right to call you out on it. The forum is working quite nicely in that regard. A few less gloom and doom drama queens would be nice around here though.
 
dsch said:
I'm saving my optimism for when we show it on the pitch, not only on paper and in the account books.
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Our main problem in the Burnley game was the build up. I think we need Blind and Herrera in there to dictate the tempo and demand the ball off the CB's. Also, Jones looks good in the middle and Rojo was bought into to play out from the back a bit (I'm guessing). Di Maria will offer us the pace going forward. The team will look a lot more balanced. We'll be alright!
 
I will hold my reserve until I see at least 5 of our new signing played 5 match together.

It's still too early to call things, and I admit I was wrong about the current set of players (minus the new signings), they are shit and didn't seem to bother to step up. They blew their chance to make the spot their own, now it's culling time.
 
sajeev said:
we haven't really had a great window. not addressed midfield at all apart from another Felliani-like signing. And we have gone full-on short-termist by paying for a mercenary whose demands no-one was able to meet. We seem to have manager who in his present role seems to be afraid of dropping big names, and is just going by reputation.

It isn't nauseating.

What is nauseating is banging on about midfield, and then jumping for joy just because the management has tried to boost its own ego by going for big names, without any viable plan as to fit everyone.

It is nauseating that being told how you you have to feel about the actions of the club. The fact that you think that this has been a productive window, doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way. Just because you are swayed by the names, not everybody has to. So get off your high horse and stop labeling what you don't understand.
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Another fellaini like signing? I hope you aren't talking about Herrera because he's exactly the type of player we needed. Or Blind, who costed £14m despite winning the footballer of the year in Netherlands playing as a defensive midfielder. We've made brilliant signings all around, all the type we needed, and since we got rid of 2 strikers who were never going to really make it here, we needed another one and brought arguably the best one in the world in on loan for at least the year.

People say we haven't addressed our needs because they aren't sure if our signings will actually work as we haven't signed world class players in those positions, more good or very good with potential. If they do, then sure as hell the signings were exactly what we needed.

We needed a center back, a left back, and depth for left back in defence:we got rojo and shaw.
We needed a defensive ball playing midfielder and a creative, box to box player: we got blind and Herrera.
We needed a winger with pace and ability, we got arguably the best one in the world in Di Maria.
 
bosnian_red said:
Another fellaini like signing? I hope you aren't talking about Herrera because he's exactly the type of player we needed. Or Blind, who costed £14m despite winning the footballer of the year in Netherlands playing as a defensive midfielder. We've made brilliant signings all around, all the type we needed, and since we got rid of 2 strikers who were never going to really make it here, we needed another one and brought arguably the best one in the world in on loan for at least the year.

People say we haven't addressed our needs because they aren't sure if our signings will actually work as we haven't signed world class players in those positions, more good or very good with potential. If they do, then sure as hell the signings were exactly what we needed.

We needed a center back, a left back, and depth for left back in defence:we got rojo and shaw.
We needed a defensive ball playing midfielder and a creative, box to box player: we got blind and Herrera.
We needed a winger with pace and ability, we got arguably the best one in the world in Di Maria.
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And, all things being equal, we've got 4 months to get negotiations completed so that Strootman can sign on 1st Jan.

"Watch this space"!! ;)
 
sajeev said:
we haven't really had a great window. not addressed midfield at all apart from another Felliani-like signing. And we have gone full-on short-termist by paying for a mercenary whose demands no-one was able to meet. We seem to have manager who in his present role seems to be afraid of dropping big names, and is just going by reputation.

It isn't nauseating.

What is nauseating is banging on about midfield, and then jumping for joy just because the management has tried to boost its own ego by going for big names, without any viable plan as to fit everyone.

It is nauseating that being told how you you have to feel about the actions of the club. The fact that you think that this has been a productive window, doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way. Just because you are swayed by the names, not everybody has to. So get off your high horse and stop labeling what you don't understand.
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Because people are happy about Di Maria, wich adress a weakness in the team, and big names, it doesn't mean you can't also see we still need improvements. We did improve the central midfield and it remains to be seen how well Shaw and Rojo does. I guess we wanted to buy another CB and CM but couldn't get the ones Van Gaal wanted. And what do you do when players like Di Maria and Falcao becomes available?, you get them.
 
sajeev said:
we haven't really had a great window. not addressed midfield at all apart from another Felliani-like signing. And we have gone full-on short-termist by paying for a mercenary whose demands no-one was able to meet. We seem to have manager who in his present role seems to be afraid of dropping big names, and is just going by reputation.

It isn't nauseating.

What is nauseating is banging on about midfield, and then jumping for joy just because the management has tried to boost its own ego by going for big names, without any viable plan as to fit everyone.

It is nauseating that being told how you you have to feel about the actions of the club. The fact that you think that this has been a productive window, doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way. Just because you are swayed by the names, not everybody has to. So get off your high horse and stop labeling what you don't understand.
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One of the most retarded post I've seen posted in the CaF and I have been around for quite some time.

4 games. 4 fecking games.
 
I really wish people would give Rojo and Blind a chance before labelling them as fellaini-esque signings or unsatisfactory ones. I mean most of us, including me, haven't seen these guys play consistently barring the WC, yet most are quick to judge them negatively since they aren't big names... Give them a chance would you. Would I have loved to see us sign the likes of Hummels/Benatia or Vidal/Carvalho/Strootman? Yes absolutely.

However, we couldn't sign these guys for various reasons (unwilling to leave/join, injury concerns/lack of CL etc). It wasn't for a lack of interest or cash. Therefore, like any other club we sensibly moved on to our next targets in Rojo and Blind. They might not be muppetatsic but I'm sure the club has thoroughly scouted them and that LVG approves of them.

It wasn't as though the club had been spendthrift (which I initially suspected) or suffering from poor planning. Granted, we could have moved sooner in the market and been more firm in our transfer negotiations, but LVG joined late and wanted to genuinely run the rule over the squad before moving in on targets, whilst Ed couldn't afford a repeat of last summer.

I do have concerns over how we will line up with so many quality attacking players in the squad. I also have concerns over the compatibility of our strikers. Will Januzaj get enough gametime? How will we keep our players on the bench happy with limited gametime this season? However, who better than LVG to manage the super-egos in the squad and get the best out of the players. I'm confident he will handle these obstacles well.

Another positive aspect most are choosing to ignore is the competitvity in the team right now. There were periods during last season and this season where some of our players were putting in anonymous performances on the run but were rather guaranteed a spot on the teamsheet next week.

Im looking at you RVP, Carrick, Rooney and Mata. We had Welbeck, Cleverley, Hernandez and Kagawa who were nowhere near challenging the first teamers or threatening to displace them. That was one of the main reasons why some of our 'stars' were performing well below their normal levels. Not. Anymore. Piss about and you will be replaced by Falcao, Blind or Januzaj and you won't missed. I assume we are playing 2 CBs from now on, which means 4 rather unestablished players competing for 2 spots. Just a pity about our full backs though...

Just wish people would focus on the positives and look forward to the season, esp after the trainwreck of a one last season... Much better than making statements like 'we are still a world class CB and CM away from achieving something or we lost our identity or we have bought the wrong players'. How about we at least wait till Christmas before making hasty judgements.
 
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matherto said:
Because despite signing great players, we're still a mess and didn't address our glaring weaknesses.

Because despite having a world class manager, we've not won a match against opponents we should be beating and the football we've played has been very similar to that under the manager we sacked for playing like shite last year...
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For one our new signings have hardly featured this year, where exactly are we a mess again? We've signed 3 midfielders, a defender and a forward, we've also got a good players in Blackett and Wilson.
We've not won a game as we've had on average 7 players out injured, 7 who would easily get into the starting 11.
 
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sajeev said:
we haven't really had a great window. not addressed midfield at all apart from another Felliani-like signing. And we have gone full-on short-termist by paying for a mercenary whose demands no-one was able to meet. We seem to have manager who in his present role seems to be afraid of dropping big names, and is just going by reputation.

It isn't nauseating.

What is nauseating is banging on about midfield, and then jumping for joy just because the management has tried to boost its own ego by going for big names, without any viable plan as to fit everyone.

It is nauseating that being told how you you have to feel about the actions of the club. The fact that you think that this has been a productive window, doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way. Just because you are swayed by the names, not everybody has to. So get off your high horse and stop labeling what you don't understand.
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Jesus,

Are you really this upset?

You realise we've signed 3 players who can play in different positions in midfield.
Plus we've still got Carrick to come back from injury and it looks like we're setting up to get Strootman in January.

How is that not productive?
How is signing 2 world class players, and 4 young players with great potential nauseating?
What would've constituted a great transfer window for you?

I'm genuinely asking.
 
sajeev said:
we haven't really had a great window. not addressed midfield at all apart from another Felliani-like signing. And we have gone full-on short-termist by paying for a mercenary whose demands no-one was able to meet. We seem to have manager who in his present role seems to be afraid of dropping big names, and is just going by reputation.

It isn't nauseating.

What is nauseating is banging on about midfield, and then jumping for joy just because the management has tried to boost its own ego by going for big names, without any viable plan as to fit everyone.

It is nauseating that being told how you you have to feel about the actions of the club. The fact that you think that this has been a productive window, doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way. Just because you are swayed by the names, not everybody has to. So get off your high horse and stop labeling what you don't understand.
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Always enjoy a good laugh first thing in the morning.
 
Let's not forget also- no more TC23 or Welbeck.

That alone should be enough to get people dancing in the streets.
 
sajeev said:
we haven't really had a great window. not addressed midfield at all apart from another Felliani-like signing.
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How can anyone say this, seriously? We have gone from a best midfield of Carrick-Cleverley to a midfield of Di Maria-Blind-Herrera. We have addressed it. Just because we didn't get the muppet-tastic target everyone was frothing at the mouth over doesn't mean we haven't significantly improved in that area. I seriously think some people are just never satisfied
 
I'm optimistic. We've made some truly outstanding signings, whilst dealing with a squad beset by injuries and have only played a few games under the stewardship of a brand-new manager. There are clear reasons as to why we've not performed to the standard most would expect of team at this level.
However, if people want to criticise the quality of a performance then they, by virtue of this being an open forum, should be entitled to do so without the predictable censure of being described as plastic, fair-weather or paranoid. Some people seem to actively enjoy the times in the season when we do under perform as it gives them a platform to assert their credentials as a "true fan" and lecture everyone else about the obsequious virtue of shutting up and toeing-the-party-line.
 
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Too early yet. It's only 3 games in to the season and we've only seen an hour of Herrera and about an hour again of Di Maria.

Plus we're playing a new formation.

Patience is vital here.
 
I feel optimistic in terms of the medium to longer term but I still have a lot of pessimism about this season. We have finally started to invest in the team and are clearing out the deadwood which is long overdue and hopefully that will continue. I don't think we have lost our soul because we will still keep investing in youth and youngsters who are good enough will get their chance but we are making up for years of under investment and poor investment and dithering from moyes. This kind of transfer window was needed in order to turn the club around, anyone who thought we were good enough nd just changing manager would solve everything was delusional.

However I still think we are in for a tough season because of all the transition and it will take time for everyone to settle down, I also think we are still short in certain areas and there is a lot of work to be done in order to find the right balance in the team.
 
Just a random guess, but it might be something to do with the fact our recent performances and results have all been completely and utterly shite?
 
I'd love to do some research to see if they are the same people that complained about woodward not buying anyone last season, but I'm too lazy.

Danny was well liked and a good player, if we hadn't sold him I reckon there would be no complaints.
 
noodlehair said:
Just a random guess, but it might be something to do with the fact our recent performances and results have all been completely and utterly shite?
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Recent?

Hate to break it to you, but our performances have been shite for around four years now.
 
Radamel FalCinao said:
Recent?

Hate to break it to you, but our performances have been shite for around four years now.
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No they haven't. Stale performances have been a theme. Getting routinely outplayed at home by the likes of Swansea and Sunderland is a more recent fad, which, bafflingly apparently, inspires pessimism amongst fans.
 
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