Christ, how many years has Huw Edwards been doing this job now?
TAKE YOUR FECKING HAND AWAY FROM THE MICROPHONE!!!
TAKE YOUR FECKING HAND AWAY FROM THE MICROPHONE!!!
Alex Salmond and Independence
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The ironic outcome for Scotland if it votes no will be that they are shut out of decisions on English matters. Which is 80% of all the spending decisions being made. If the conservatives have their way there will be an English parliament based at Westminster from which Scottish MP's will be barred. Scotland will have it's extra powers over Scottish matters and lose all influence over the rest and be completely ignored/irrelevant to the policies which will shape British success or failure. Any failure will hurt Scotland probably more than anything Scotland can do with the extra powers.
Its like you complained you were not being heard and then went and shouted about it from a cave far away.
Its like you complained you were not being heard and then went and shouted about it from a cave far away.
There's a difference between local english matters and British matters. British matters would be something that affects us nationwide, english only on a local level. Besides if it does happen I would welcome an English Parliament but not in westminster, somewhere else. Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool etc should be the candidates.
Assuming some hideous unavoidable circumstance, would you rather bareback Huw Edwards or Andrew Neil?
England being 80%+ of Britain do you really think they are going to give a shit what Scotland thinks about British matters. It will be a stitch up at every level. I would love to see an English parliament outside of the south but it won't happen. The conservatives are already moving to bounce this result to their advantage and if Scotland votes no it plays straight into their hands.
Think we've voted No. We'll see what happens, but I think we've bottled it.
No voters would never be as visible on the streets or social media due to the negative connotations the Yes campaign have imposed on them... not a proper Scot, not brave enough, bottling it, unpatriotic etc... all childish and vile really... tremendously short sighted at the least.
Whether the No vote is being driven by a firm belief in union, or just a shaky belief in independence through unanswered questions makes little to no difference and the belittling of that vote group throughout the campaign has been shocking, there's an irony in mocking pragmatic politics.
The complete lack of answers on the big questions has been galling and the whole Yes campaign has been centred on an emotional message that will inevitably sweep people up, I think in a way, every - or a clear majority - of Scots would like independence but just not at this time, with these terms. I'm still stunned they let it be a straight shoot out with no Devo Max on the card from the off. I guess Westminster thought they may get away with it and not risk upsetting English, Welsh and I guess the Northern Irish...
Though we couldn't run a bath left to our own devices, never mind construct governance with Devo Max.
Whether the No vote is being driven by a firm belief in union, or just a shaky belief in independence through unanswered questions makes little to no difference and the belittling of that vote group throughout the campaign has been shocking, there's an irony in mocking pragmatic politics.
The complete lack of answers on the big questions has been galling and the whole Yes campaign has been centred on an emotional message that will inevitably sweep people up, I think in a way, every - or a clear majority - of Scots would like independence but just not at this time, with these terms. I'm still stunned they let it be a straight shoot out with no Devo Max on the card from the off. I guess Westminster thought they may get away with it and not risk upsetting English, Welsh and I guess the Northern Irish...
Though we couldn't run a bath left to our own devices, never mind construct governance with Devo Max.
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No it won't, because theirs a difference between english and british matters. I had welsh and scottish MPs voting on my tuition fees while their respective constituents get it for free (at least Scotland do). This is a democracy and as far as I know we have always taken heed of what they said, we gave Scotland this referendum didn't we? Its a double standard to say its okay for them to vote on our matters and not us voting on theirs. In no way does that compromise Scotland and Wales.
I know
but there needs to be candidates!Nah, Andrew Neil. I'd like to hurt him more.
It's got to be Huw, with that soothing Welsh lilt.
It's hardly bottling it if it's what the people want.
Balls, I was liking those new designs for the Union Jack
Shouldn't yes voters be more worried about bottling the country if they do win rather than bottling the vote?
Nonsense. I think this referendum will drive affairs to a point where Scotland has a much greater say in it's affairs going forward. Which is a win for the Yes group, no?
Yeah but with Neil, you couldn't guarentee that Portilo wouldn't stick his beak round the door for a go.
They have a say in English affairs whereas we don't in theirs, that's a pretty big say already.
No it won't, because theirs a difference between english and british matters. I had welsh and scottish MPs voting on my tuition fees while their respective constituents get it for free (at least Scotland do). This is a democracy and as far as I know we have always taken heed of what they said, we gave Scotland this referendum didn't we? Its a double standard to say its okay for them to vote on our matters and not us voting on theirs. In no way does that compromise Scotland and Wales.
I know
The British matters will be decided in the English parliament by the vast majority of British MP's who are English and working with each other on the 80% of spending plans without the Scots even being there. Scotland just gave away the house in terms of its best way of influencing England if it votes no which I am hoping isn't true. Think about it for a minute and ask yourself this question, do any of the decisions really get made in the formal adoption meeting? No they don't people take positions before that meeting and the movers and shakers have a plan they want adopting which has already been worked on, agreed and lobbied for. That is just the real world.
You've been watching too much House of Cards, mate.
What ever happens, I bet Jeremy Vine would have some smashing graphics to show just what was going on.
I've no doubt this will change if the NO vote wins.
Its basic geography too, the other home nations get far too much say in our affairs despite having less people, and it pisses me off especially as I've been directly affected by it financially for years to come. What you are saying isn't going to happen.
It will, hopefully for the better.
I'm amazed at how fast things have moved in response, you can hear the battle lines being drawn.
It's not a new thing to be fair. The government set up a commission to look into it, and last year it recommended that votes that only affect England should require a majority from English MPs to pass. Seems like a simple fix to me. I guess non English MPs could still participate in the debates in that scenario but I'm not sure that's a big deal.
All the YES voters/representatives constantly repeating "Grass roots" is really starting to piss me off. It just reminds me of the Tea Party and Fox News. Would that make Alex Salmond the Scottish Sarah Palin?
On a more serious note, I just think it's such a massively important decision and best summed up by the 17 year old girl on BBC earlier.
"I voted NO because the YES camp haven't answered any really important questions. There is far too much uncertainty on immigration and currency for example, to make any other vote than NO. This decision will effect everyone in the UK for generations to come, you would have thought we would have had more conclusive answers for such an important vote"
On a more serious note, I just think it's such a massively important decision and best summed up by the 17 year old girl on BBC earlier.
"I voted NO because the YES camp haven't answered any really important questions. There is far too much uncertainty on immigration and currency for example, to make any other vote than NO. This decision will effect everyone in the UK for generations to come, you would have thought we would have had more conclusive answers for such an important vote"
I love that show, this referendum just produced an English caucus,the most powerful voting block in Britain.
Why would English MP's want lecturing by non English MP's about a matter which is in the English domain. Most things will be in the English domain at some level.
Well I'm not convinced any non-English MP is going to be arsed about lecturing anyone about education in England and the like.
From the beginning it should have been a campaign for a reformed constitution and increased devolution across the whole of the UK. As it happens a no vote may set us along that path while keeping the union in tact. I think this is good news for everyone. Devo max is surely a much better result for Scotland than total independence (such an option on the ballot paper would have won by a landslide, but will now happen anyway) and regardless of result the referendum has engaged people on issues that will ultimately be beneficial for other areas of the UK such as the north of England.
Ok but lets say it's a British matter like defence. We want to close a base either in England or Scotland. What do you think the English MP's, with a base in their constituency, are going to be doing/talking about in the English Parliament to his fellow English MP's?
Probably the exclusively English matters they're there to vote on?
I don't know what planet you're on. You're acting as if an English Parliament would in practice be some Headquarters for the English to unite and conspire against the rest of the UK. They'd be bickering amongst themselves as usual.
Drumroll please
7 of the 36-odd thousand voted for both yes and no
Well... Big no vote there!
It's now 48 for YES on betfair. All over.
Was that as expected for 54:46 overall vote?
No, this was an expected YES vote.
Closer to 50-50 with a slight leaning to Yes.