Pep Guardiola's Bayern

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Sean_RedDevil said:
Thiago's injury problems are Guardiola's fault and from the club officials!!!!!! He has send Thiago to spanish doctors after his first injury and Müller-Wolfahrt was totally against it!!!
And Bayern Munich (Sammer & Co.) have allowed this. Guardiola has too much power in Munich.
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Your excessive use of exclamation marks makes me think this post is sarcastic. Regardless, I'm not sure what to think about Bayern's club doctor. On one hand, he's known as one of the world's most famous and renowned sports doctors, on the other, he's a homeopath.

He's a dangerous, cynical quack who abuses his position as a famous doctor to sell lots of homoeopathic medicine his own company produces.

That he treated Bono or that Usain Bolt says he's great is not science. In fact, a doctor gathering famous patients as advertising tools is a major red flag for me.
People defending him because he helped these people are like people defending dr. Oz because he's famous. feck that! He's a cnut who likes money so much he doesn't mind spreading superstitious magic ideas to desperate people.

The German team might have become world champions but homoeopathy is still a swindle and injecting honey into someone's knees is still just utter nonsense.

Footballers have a function as role models to a lot of kids, greedy people who abuse that to spread superstitions do not deserve praise.

edit: Extra suspicious fact: In over 35 years he has consistently ignored all calls for him to publish his work in peer reviewed journals. He refuses to share his work and resists all attempts to put his treatment in clinical trials. Instead he says that all that;s important is that his patients believe in him. If that's not a red flag that marks him as a faith healer then I don't know what is.
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Maybe the Bayern posters here can clarify.
 
Melvyn said:
Your excessive use of exclamation marks makes me think this post is sarcastic. Regardless, I'm not sure what to think about Bayern's club doctor. On one hand, he's known as one of the world's most famous and renowned sports doctors, on the other, he's a homeopath.
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I'm serious. Müller-Wolfarth is one of the best doctors in the world. Massive fight between Guardiola and Müller-Wolfarth since Thiago's first injury.

Bayern Munich would be stupid if Guardiola wins this fight. Guardiola thinks he knows everything.
 
Pretty sure that fight was massively exaggerated in the media. With our constant injuries, I'd be more worried if there wasn't some serious discussion about the problems.

What caused all the uproar was that Thiago got several cortison injections in Spain, which in the end caused more problems in his recovery than it helped. You can call Müller-Wolfarth a quack as much as you want (some of his methods are definitely questionable), it's still better than those fecking cortison injections.
 
Its hard to evaluate doctors. I have my own theory about Müller-Wohlfahrt. I think he is actually a very good doctor regarding sport injuries and much of his "alternative medicine" tattle is nothing but a well thought through cover for doping/experimental treatments that push the limit of whats allowed. This way he has a explanation, that is impossible to disprove, while he is also able to make some extra money of it, by selling "normal" folk nonsense. He seem to have his issues with money anyway.
Its just speculation and its also totally possible, that he really believes in homeopathy, but the list of famous top athletes, who are/have been treated by him is incredible. In some cases his therapies had remarkable success.
 
Who has time and who likes to see a training session... Bayern's training session from today will be broadcasted on youtube in full (all the 75 or 90 minutes). It has english commentary...

 
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PedroMendez said:
Its hard to evaluate doctors. I have my own theory about Müller-Wohlfahrt. I think he is actually a very good doctor regarding sport injuries and much of his "alternative medicine" tattle is nothing but a well thought through cover for doping/experimental treatments that push the limit of whats allowed. This way he has a explanation, that is impossible to disprove, while he is also able to make some extra money of it, by selling "normal" folk nonsense. He seem to have his issues with money anyway.
Its just speculation and its also totally possible, that he really believes in homeopathy, but the list of famous top athletes, who are/have been treated by him is incredible. In some cases his therapies had remarkable success.
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That is very speculative. Doping is about improving performance, not about treating injuries. Accustions of the first kind follow him occasionally though, as far as i see it, mostly not exactly followed by any substantial evidence other than outstanding performances by some of his clients like Usain. Could be other way around: The best athletes visit him because he is the best, and some of the athletes are the best because they use drugs. From my knowledge, performance-enhancing drugs is just as much a specialist field as orthopedy is. You want a boost, see a specialist for heart/blood/kidney/whatever, not a knee doctor.

There is no doubt that MW has a stellar record of dealing with (certain kinds of) the latter, he excels when it comes to muscle injuries (see Robben). Major orthopedist work (surgery) is usually farmed out to other specialists like Boenisch in Augsburg or Steadman in Vail (when its a cruciate ligament). Funny considering the second best CL specialist in the world after Steadman is also in Munich - but he is contracted to 1860 :D
 
Just to clarify, I always assumed, that müller wohlfahrt doesnt operate at all himself. He makes diagnoses, advise people how to treat their injuries and oversees the whole process. When operations are needed he sends them to specialists. Am I wrong here?

Anyway. He was often linked to the use of Actovegin, which makes me fairly suspicious and doping can do much more than a short term boost of the performance.
 
PedroMendez said:
Just to clarify, I always assumed, that müller wohlfahrt doesnt operate at all himself. He makes diagnoses, advise people how to treat their injuries and oversees the whole process. When operations are needed he sends them to specialists. Am I wrong here?
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He does occasionally, allegedly it was him who did surgery on Bas Dost.
http://www.11freunde.de/nachrichten/knoechelprobleme-dost-muss-weiter-pausieren
Seems to depend on what needs to be fixed.
His office lists "orthopedy, radiology, therapy" as subjects.

Anyway. He was often linked to the use of Actovegin, which makes me fairly suspicious and doping can do much more than a short term boost of the performance.
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Even harsh critics of MW only say that Actovegin is useless, but not performance enhancing. See
http://www.tz.de/sport/fussball/mue...eiler-interview-pharmakologen-tz-3635952.html
That guy is furious because he feels Actovegin is a Placebo, not becuase it is drugging (Actovegin is not a banned substance).
 
Actovegin itself isnt performance enhancing, but many people believe that it helps the bloodflow, which is fairly useful when you Hematocrit% is increased. I am not in the position to assess this claim, but its a well known fact that many people who used other drugs for the purpose of doping, also took this stuff. People believed/believe this. Maybe there is a totally reasonable explanation why he used this stuff, but for me thats enough to be highly suspicious.
 
PedroMendez said:
Actovegin itself isnt performance enhancing, but many people believe that it helps the bloodflow, which is fairly useful when you Hematocrit% is increased.
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So does Aspirin.
As i understand it, from not being a doctor and biologist and after an extensive 5min google research, Actovegin is not performance-enhancing if used intramuscular (which seems to be what MW does). :D

Don't get me wrong, i have few illusions regarding the cleanness of any sport. One of the problems is that different people may react differently to different substances, and that some drugs on the banned lists are not as effective as some of those that are even allowed. Drug control will never be 100%.
In MWs case, though, his best drug is psychology. Even his enemies agree on that. People feel 50% better already when they know MW is treating them. Many people accuse him of over-using this which may well be the case. It may also be the source of a lot of envy.
 
strongwalker said:
That is very speculative. Doping is about improving performance, not about treating injuries. Accustions of the first kind follow him occasionally though, as far as i see it, mostly not exactly followed by any substantial evidence other than outstanding performances by some of his clients like Usain. Could be other way around: The best athletes visit him because he is the best, and some of the athletes are the best because they use drugs. From my knowledge, performance-enhancing drugs is just as much a specialist field as orthopedy is. You want a boost, see a specialist for heart/blood/kidney/whatever, not a knee doctor.

There is no doubt that MW has a stellar record of dealing with (certain kinds of) the latter, he excels when it comes to muscle injuries (see Robben). Major orthopedist work (surgery) is usually farmed out to other specialists like Boenisch in Augsburg or Steadman in Vail (when its a cruciate ligament). Funny considering the second best CL specialist in the world after Steadman is also in Munich - but he is contracted to 1860 :D
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From what I've read about doping in football over the years it's speculated that it also plays a big role in short-term, post-match recovery and injury treatments, not just enhancing performances.

Re: Müller-Wohlfahrt, an interesting article in German (I believe there is a paragraph that mentions Actovegin being used in treating muscle injuries)

In any case, regardless of Müller-Wohlfahrt, quite a few of these medical "miracle workers"/advisors at various football clubs are highly dubious individuals IMO. Often there isn't even much attempt to hide it by the management that hires them (in the sense that these guys have a shady enough past), although for some reason the topic of doping in football is barely even touched upon in the mainstream media (which seems especially noticeable in the Anglosphere; maybe that's just my erroneous impression, but I've seen plenty of articles in Dutch, German or Italian on the matter). Same issue with the lax attitudes of football authorities: doping is likely just too widespread and the stakes are huge. As an example of the "nonchalance" of club's hiring policies, just last year the guy who was heavily involved in setting up the DDR's doping programme in the 70s (Bernd Pansold) became affiliated with Red Bull Salzburg! :lol: And what do you know all of a sudden these guys play an incredible high-intensity pressing & counter-pressing game (as Bayern fans can attest to from that mid-season friendly). A happy coincidence, I'm sure.
 
I believe I read that a few years back, though I might be talking out of my arse here.
 
Skorenzy said:
From what I've read about doping in football over the years it's speculated that it also plays a big role in short-term, post-match recovery and injury treatments, not just enhancing performances.

Re: Müller-Wohlfahrt, an interesting article in German (I believe there is a paragraph that mentions Actovegin being used in treating muscle injuries)

In any case, regardless of Müller-Wohlfahrt, quite a few of these medical "miracle workers"/advisors at various football clubs are highly dubious individuals IMO. Often there isn't even much attempt to hide it by the management that hires them (in the sense that these guys have a shady enough past), although for some reason the topic of doping in football is barely even touched upon in the mainstream media (which seems especially noticeable in the Anglosphere; maybe that's just my erroneous impression, but I've seen plenty of articles in Dutch, German or Italian on the matter). Same issue with the lax attitudes of football authorities: doping is likely just too widespread and the stakes are huge. As an example of the "nonchalance" of club's hiring policies, just last year the guy who was heavily involved in setting up the DDR's doping programme in the 70s (Bernd Pansold) became affiliated with Red Bull Salzburg! :lol: And what do you know all of a sudden these guys play an incredible high-intensity pressing & counter-pressing game (as Bayern fans can attest to from that mid-season friendly). A happy coincidence, I'm sure.
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We all know what is happening in cycling and cross-country skiing, biathlon or athletics. The money involved in Football is possibly a hundredfold of what is turned in these sports. Having said that, i've seen drug abuse where nothing was turned but some folks own ambitions (i.e. cycling on *senior* amateur level where no one cares about who won but the people who rode). Money is a motivator to cheat, so is ambition.
Pro-level Football is, in some cases, a matter of national importance.
 
after a bad start, our second team won the 8th consecutive match. Maybe this year we manage to get promoted. I am still horrified by the terrible performance of Lukas Raeder in last season´s promotion match.
 
Well if this is going to be the thing we are going to see from Bayern this season under Pep Europe has a really good reason to be affraid of them again. Amazing display against Roma in this first half. Their movement is just dazzling and the passing is just absolutely great to watch.
 
Not really impressive considering they failed to get one over BATE a few years ago, and Shaktar are currently beating them six goals to nil.
 
And then he chases away Kroos and brings in Alonso the old trout...
 
I freaking Love Lewandowski's link- and hold-up play, that assist for Robben's second goal was mouthwatering. This kind of quality on the ball was what we were missing with Mandzukic or Gomez up-front.
 
Bazi said:
I freaking Love Lewandowski's link- and hold-up play, that assist for Robben's second goal was mouthwatering. This kind of quality on the ball was what we were missing with Mandzukic or Gomez up-front.
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I can't really remember much before 1996, but I've never seen a striker play like that for Bayern. Ridiculous to say he's been underwhelming just because he isn't bagging goals like Costa for Chelsea.
 
That was as close to a perfect match as any team has displayed this season. A stunning annihilation of a top class team on the grand stage.
 
'Boring' football eh? Funny how there were posters who didn't want him at United because of that reason.
 
I particularly like (among other things) his coaching of almost every player even during matches, he was even talking to Neuer minutes after the game started.
 
Melvyn said:
'Boring' football eh? Funny how there were posters who didn't want him at United because of that reason.
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His football was never boring at Barcelona, nor at Bayern. The issue, rightly pointed out, is not that his approach has ever been boring, but that the oppositions negative approach to dealing with Pep's mentality led to matches that were deemed boring.

Anyone who can watch fluid, fast, interchangeable football, full of high intensity pressing and one-touch play and yet still find cause to criticise this, must simply be either insane or dishonest.
 
PedroMendez said:
after a bad start, our second team won the 8th consecutive match. Maybe this year we manage to get promoted. I am still horrified by the terrible performance of Lukas Raeder in last season´s promotion match.
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Do you watch the kleine Bayern regularly?
 
Hoof The Ball said:
His football was never boring at Barcelona, nor at Bayern. The issue, rightly pointed out, is not that his approach has ever been boring, but that the oppositions negative approach to dealing with Pep's mentality led to matches that were deemed boring.

Anyone who can watch fluid, fast, interchangeable football, full of high intensity pressing and one-touch play and yet still find cause to criticise this, must simply be either insane or dishonest.
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I was jealous. I remember shitting on his football when he was winning everything at Barca :drool:.
And I completely agree that the defensive tatics employed by Mou and other defensive coaches in smaller teams led to some ugly matches.
 
DesiBD said:
Indeed. You would've thought that after the WC, he's finished at the top level, but no. What a bargain for Bayern.
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Wasn't he MoTM in something like 7 of his first 8 games for them? Whilst covering the most ground too (which I find unbelievable from someone of his age that usually sits deep)?
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Wasn't he MoTM in something like 7 of his first 8 games for them? Whilst covering the most ground too (which I find unbelievable from someone of his age that usually sits deep)?
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Covering a lot of ground is tiring, but it's always better and less exhausting to do it at your own pace and rhythm and that's the case for Alonso at Bayern München. I'd argue 11km at a team where has to do lots of defensive work and chase after counter-attacks drains the stamina a lot more than 12km of dominant possession football under Guardioa.
 
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