Lahm v Dani Alves

Who do you reckon had the higher peak?

  • Total voters
    180
  • Poll closed .
mazhar13 said:
I'll also add on how Valencia gave Lahm a tough time when we faced Bayern at Old Trafford in 2010 in the Champions League. He just couldn't keep up with Valencia, physically. There were a few matches were Lahm did struggle to impose himself, defensively, but more often than not, he's done a very good job defending his side.
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Badstuber was Valencia's victim, not Lahm.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Higher peak I'd say Dani Alves. Lahm is fantastic too but Alves' overall influence going forward is just too much to ignore. At Sevilla he was near enough their playmaker from right back, and at Barcelona he was immense at covering the entire pitch.

Lahm destroys him for longevity though.
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Sorry Bob but this is no contest in favor of Alves. Not only was Alves a monster player at Sevilla but with a far weaker squad he won trophies there before marking an era with Barcelona. At his peak, forwards showed fear to enter his area - I can still recall the way he had Henry in his pocket in CL play. And in terms of longevity, despite starting their first team professional careers at the same time Alves has played more than 60 more matches than Lahm

Dani was a player to fear in his prime and even as he aged he remains a weapon due to his terrific link up play in a more collective set up. The German by contrast was never the prime offensive & defensive threat for his team like Dani was during his time at Sevilla. I actually don't think I've since seen another fullback own forwards the way he did
 
Daniel Alves was one of the 10 best players in the World for a period. With his unreal pace and stamina he basically was a RB and a RW at the same time. So Alves was better in his peak. But, Lahm has been a lot more consistent in his career. One of the most consistent Footballers I have ever seen.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Daniel Alves was one of the 10 best players in the World for a period. With his unreal pace and stamina he basically was a RB and a RW at the same time. So Alves was better in his peak. But, Lahm has been a lot more consistent in his career. One of the most consistent Footballers I have ever seen.
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One could argue that a fit Lahm still is.

Antohans post ends the thread, basically.
 
Depends on what you want from the player. Alves would clearly affect the game a lot more than Lahm so if you are looking for someone to win you matches then Alves is a way better player. 15 league assists in one year, which equals what Beckham has as United's EPL record for United(While he took freekicks too).

In Alves best three year period he assisted 36 league goals while Lahm's best consecutive three year period is 19 assists, Alves basically had twice the production there.

If you want a player to make sure you don't lose matches then I'd have Lahm every day. If we judge them as wing backs then Alves wins it easily, and if we compare them as DM's/LB's/regular full backs then Lahm defaults it.

It is a bit like trying to compare the greatest stoppers versus the greatest ballplaying centre backs.
 
Lahm is/was the better player but Alves had the higher peak.

What i mean by that is Lahm could fit into any team and give you a 7-8 out of 10 performance. Alves by contrast was not as adaptable, but in the right system was as close to Cafu as anyone ive seen.
 
Sunny Jim said:
Lahm...full back is meant to defend after all and i think Lahm was better at it.
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Wrong. A fullback much like a central midfielder is meant to attack and defend. The game has changed since 40 years ago.
 
Revan said:
Never rated Alves that much. He was a fantastic crosser and had a good shot on him, but thought that defensively was crap. On a team that would need to defend, he would have murdered.

Now, Lahm or Maicon at their best is a real debate.
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It's amazing then that such a crap defender did so well against Cristiano Ronaldo time after time.

Also, by that logic, he must have been murdered week in week out for Seville, which makes you wonder why Barcelona signed him in the first place.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
It's amazing then that such a crap defender did so well against Cristiano Ronaldo time after time.

Also, by that logic, he must have been murdered week in week out for Seville, which makes you wonder why Barcelona signed him in the first place.
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Alves at Sevilla is the closest thing to a right back dominating the game from start to finish I've ever seen but he was unquestionably a defensive liability. Just look at the first goal in the 2007 UEFA Cup final (and the acknowledgement from the commentators that Alves isn't a great defender). Terrible positioning to begin with, complete lack of awareness of the danger, and then when he tries to make up for that mistake he dives in rashly and gives Riera all the time he needs to slot it home.



I do think Alves improved his defending 1v1 in his time at Barca so when he was given the task of sticking to Ronaldo he was pretty good at it, but his positioning, awareness and rashness never really changed much IMO, and he was levels below Lahm as a defender at this peak. I don't know how anyone could say their attacking contribution is incomparable either. Lahm got 17 assists at club level just two seasons ago - a feat Alves only managed to better once in his career, and I'd be surprised if any other fullbacks even come close to that number in the last decade. So at his peak his end product was comparable and his build-up play was even better...so I think Lahm's attacking contribution is being greatly understated here.

Lahm wins out because he is a better defender and always was but his contribution to the attack is terrific as well.
 
I don't think I've ever seen a footballer dominating matches from right back position apart from Dani Alves who used to do it regularly for Sevilla.
 
This game sums up Alves at Sevilla for me. Responsible for the first four goals in the game - 2 for, 2 against. Nowhere to be found for Shaktar's first goal and then just hopeless defending for the second, but he saves the game with an assist in the 93rd minute.



And in the first leg of this match he gave away a penalty. To compare him to Lahm defensively is just...
 
Brwned said:
Alves at Sevilla is the closest thing to a right back dominating the game from start to finish I've ever seen but he was unquestionably a defensive liability. Just look at the first goal in the 2007 UEFA Cup final (and the acknowledgement from the commentators that Alves isn't a great defender). Terrible positioning to begin with, complete lack of awareness of the danger, and then when he tries to make up for that mistake he dives in rashly and gives Riera all the time he needs to slot it home.



I do think Alves improved his defending 1v1 in his time at Barca so when he was given the task of sticking to Ronaldo he was pretty good at it, but his positioning, awareness and rashness never really changed much IMO, and he was levels below Lahm as a defender at this peak. I don't know how anyone could say their attacking contribution is incomparable either. Lahm got 17 assists at club level just two seasons ago - a feat Alves only managed to better once in his career, and I'd be surprised if any other fullbacks even come close to that number in the last decade. So at his peak his end product was comparable and his build-up play was even better...so I think Lahm's attacking contribution is being greatly understated here.

Lahm wins out because he is a better defender and always was but his contribution to the attack is terrific as well.
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He still wasn't "murdered" all the time. He must have been doing something right to be noticed by everyone including Barca, and that too at not the best team.

And assists are very misleading. Baines has more than Evra who barely got any. Alves was dominant whereas Lahm is tidy and efficient.
 
Alves could change games from right back ffs. An absolute monster that helped transform Barcelona into the team they were. They always found it noticeably harder to dominate games and create chances when he wasn't playing. Amazing stamina and speed, the eye and brain to play in Barca's system...a no brainer for me.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
He still wasn't "murdered" all the time. He must have been doing something right to be noticed by everyone including Barca, and that too at not the best team.

And assists are very misleading. Baines has more than Evra who barely got any. Alves was dominant whereas Lahm is tidy and efficient.
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What is misleading about that? Just proves Baines has a much better final ball. There was a 5 year period where only Dani Alves in European football had more assist than Baines.
 
Lahm's big selling point is consistency. I've never seen the guy have a bad game. I think he's one of the most well-rounded players I've ever seen.

Alves was far more dominant going forward. He's had a huge say in Barca's attacking play for the last 7 years.

There's not much to separate the two, however Lahm's ability to play in 3 positions and play them all at a standard better than almost anyone sways it. If only John O'Shea was that good technically!
 
Aldo said:
For most of his time at Madrid, Ronaldo has usually had quiet games if you can cut off the service to him. And Barca did that with ease.
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True but it wasn't just that, Dani Alves defended excellently against Cristiano in one-on-one situations too.
 
As for the debate, I think Alves' attacking ability is getting a bit exaggerated. While he was really good in stretching play, had excellent co-ordination with Messi and the two of them combined beautifully, his impact 'looked' a lot greater due to all the other Barca players playing so narrow, and in turn leaving acres out wide for him to run onto. Calling him a 'match winner' is really stretching it, he was no Roberto Carlos.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
True but it wasn't just that, Dani Alves defended excellently against Cristiano in one-on-one situations too.
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Cristiano in 1v1s stopped being a lethal threat a long time back. His dribbling has declined drastically, his biggest weapons by far in terms of beating defenders have been his movement and positioning.

I wouldn't trust Alves in a constant 1v1 situation against an actual tricky winger who knows a thing or two about beating a defender. He was torn a new one when he started in the Copa America 2011 games, absolutely horrible defending.
 
Aldo said:
Cristiano in 1v1s stopped being a lethal threat a long time back. His dribbling has declined drastically, his biggest weapons by far in terms of beating defenders have been his movement and positioning.

I wouldn't trust Alves in a constant 1v1 situation against an actual tricky winger who knows a thing or two about beating a defender. He was torn a new one when he started in the Copa America 2011 games, absolutely horrible defending.
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Alves tackling is not that bad. People are really underrating his defen

2014/15
Lahm - 0.43 tackles per game, 0.86 interceptions per game
Alves - 3.09 tackles per game, 1.39 interceptions per game

2013/14
Lahm - 0.82 tackles per game, 1.29 interceptions per game
Alves - 2.37 tackles per game, 2.0 interceptions per game

2012/13
Lahm - 1.55 tackles per game, 1.66 interceptions per game
Alves - 2.3 tackles per game, 0.87 interceptions per game

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...129/129/117/0/p#tackles_won/interceptions#avg
 
BigDunc9 said:
What is misleading about that? Just proves Baines has a much better final ball. There was a 5 year period where only Dani Alves in European football had more assist than Baines.
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It doesn't tell the full picture quite clearly. If you're inferring just that then fine. But saying one is better going forward just because of that is misleading. Evra did a lot of damage through his far superior technically ability as compared to Baines.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
It doesn't tell the full picture quite clearly. If you're inferring just that then fine. But saying one is better going forward just because of that is misleading. Evra did a lot of damage through his far superior technically ability as compared to Baines.
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In what way did Evra have far more technical abillitY? If anything it was Evras superior physicality that gave him a edge.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
He still wasn't "murdered" all the time. He must have been doing something right to be noticed by everyone including Barca, and that too at not the best team.

And assists are very misleading. Baines has more than Evra who barely got any. Alves was dominant whereas Lahm is tidy and efficient.
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Evra had few assists because his final ball was rubbish, whereas Baines' was very good. What's misleading about that? Evra was far better in the build-up but then I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise. I was just talking about that one aspect. The fact that Alves and Lahm had a similar number of assists at their peak is an accurate portrayal of the fact their final ball/end product/whatever you want to call it was at a similar level at its peak.

I doubt you'll find anyone who watched German football regularly saying Lahm did anything other than dominate his flank, to be honest. To describe him as simply tidy and efficient is incredible, IMO. Alves at Sevilla was a step above anything I can ever remember seeing from a fullback in terms of what he contributed with his team in possession, but Lahm is terrific at that too and he's shown that in dozens of games at the highest level for club and country on the biggest stages. Much like Alves he was almost always in the top 3 for touches on the ball no matter who the opposition was, and he uses it very, very well.
 
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amolbhatia100 said:
Than Baines? Are you being serious?
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So how did Baines become one of the best left backs in the world whiles being physically poor and having average technique? Baines has better technique in terms of striking a ball and delivery. Baines also has good close control but lacks the pace to cause any major damage with it. Baines also has fantastic technical ability with his passing. Evra has fantastic dribbling ability aided by his pace but is that the be all and end all when discussing technique.
 
BigDunc9 said:
So how did Baines become one of the best left backs in the world whiles being physically poor and having average technique? Baines has better technique in terms of striking a ball and delivery. Baines also has good close control but lacks the pace to cause any major damage with it. Baines also has fantastic technical ability with his passing. Evra has fantastic dribbling ability aided by his pace but is that the be all and end all when discussing technique.
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For me, Baines wasn't/isn't as good as you suggest. He's never reached the levels Evra and Cole did at their peaks because he's much more limited on the ball. He does have great delivery but other than that he's inferior to the elite fulbacks of the game I've seen - Evra, Cole, Maicon, Alves, Lahm etc.

Evra was often one of the main outlets in attack for one of the best teams around and one that dominated English football. Personally never thought Baines was at that level.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
For me, Baines wasn't/isn't as good as you suggest. He's never reached the levels Evra and Cole did at their peaks because he's much more limited on the ball. He does have great delivery but other than that he's inferior to the elite fulbacks of the game I've seen - Evra, Cole, Maicon, Alves, Lahm etc.

Evra was often one of the main outlets in attack for one of the best teams around and one that dominated English football. Personally never thought Baines was at that level.
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Most probably but it wasn't because he had inferior technique, it was because he wasn't blessed with pace like everyone you mention there and he wasnt physically strong either which led towards him being a level below there defensive abillity. It is a testament to his ability that he reached the level he did whiles lacking key physical advantages needed for the modern full back.
 
BigDunc9 said:
Most probably but it wasn't because he had inferior technique, it was because he wasn't blessed with pace like everyone you mention there and he wasnt physically strong either which led towards him being a level below there defensive abillity. It is a testament to his ability that he reached the level he did whiles lacking key physical advantages needed for the modern full back.
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I don't think it's just pace. Evra was superb on the ball. He was at times along with Ronaldo our main outlet to carry the ball forwards. He had trickery and excellent skill on the ball. It wasn't as if he just pushed and ran, and just had extra pace.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I don't think it's just pace. Evra was superb on the ball. He was at times along with Ronaldo our main outlet to carry the ball forwards. He had trickery and excellent skill on the ball. It wasn't as if he just pushed and ran, and just had extra pace.
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I am not trying to say that. He combined his skill with his pace. I am just saying it is hard to beat a man on the wing without pace.
 
BigDunc9 said:
I am not trying to say that. He combined his skill with his pace. I am just saying it is hard to beat a man on the wing without pace.
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I don't disagree with that. I do believe Evra had more technical ability, apart from ball striking, than Baines whereas you think it was just pace and physicality. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I don't think it's just pace. Evra was superb on the ball. He was at times along with Ronaldo our main outlet to carry the ball forwards. He had trickery and excellent skill on the ball. It wasn't as if he just pushed and ran, and just had extra pace.
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I think his crossing was very poor for a player of his quality but I agree with that. He was excellent for a good few years, hard to separate him and Cole but both were easily top 1 and 2 at one stage.
 
I honestly can't separate the both of them playing at their peak, although I'd be swayed by Lahm's influence as captain and a leader.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I don't disagree with that. I do believe Evra had more technical ability, apart from ball striking, than Baines whereas you think it was just pace and physicality. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
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In what areas?
 
amolbhatia100 said:
dribbling, trickery etc
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I agree and combined with his pace and power it made him a formidable player down the left but that is only one area of technical ability which is what I was trying to say. Evra was also much better defensively but I dont think I am overrating Baines attacking abillity at all.
 
FCBarca said:
Sorry Bob but this is no contest in favor of Alves. Not only was Alves a monster player at Sevilla but with a far weaker squad he won trophies there before marking an era with Barcelona. At his peak, forwards showed fear to enter his area - I can still recall the way he had Henry in his pocket in CL play. And in terms of longevity, despite starting their first team professional careers at the same time Alves has played more than 60 more matches than Lahm

Dani was a player to fear in his prime and even as he aged he remains a weapon due to his terrific link up play in a more collective set up. The German by contrast was never the prime offensive & defensive threat for his team like Dani was during his time at Sevilla. I actually don't think I've since seen another fullback own forwards the way he did
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When did Henry play against Alves in the CL? That doesn't sound right.
 
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