Why do you think Van Gaal rates him so highly?
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Why do you think Van Gaal rates him so highly?
To be fair so many people are on his back right now, imagine back then if he sold him to Chelsea (because that was the most likely destination). He'd be stoned by the people of Caf and Manchester.
No idea. Van Gaal during his career has made a number of completely baffling choices.
I think van Gaal might be you actually.
Well he took them both, very much doubt the same would have gone for Rooney. He also created a goal for himself against Liverpool in a manner that Rooney hasn't done in a long time. The pace of our attack with Martial is significantly different than with Rooney.
A pity you stopped reading after the bit in bold...
In current form, it's anyone's guess. The only footballing reason I can think of why Rooney is still in the team is to play him into form, somehow.
I don't often agree with Carragher but he was spot on in his summary on Sunday. Rooney has been given a lot of chances in a lot of positions / formations. Its about time the finger was pointed at him for not doing enough rather than the system not working / wrong position etc etc. Martial has fed off scraps and got 3 goals. Players make positions and systems and unfortunately, at the minute Rooney isn't the best player in any position on the field.
Souness also made a valid point about the fire having gone. Countless times yesterday a United player (usually Memphis or mata) actually ran passed rooney to press the opposition.
He was soooo poor yesterday that it was only when Mata came in from the right that we started getting on the ball and dictating play. Until then Carrick / Schniderlin's only pass on was the full backs as Rooney was hiding.
He's got a big few games ahead of him.
Those saying LVG wont drop him is nonsense. He likes his captain to play, obviously. However, he's "sacked" and dropped captains mid season before and I cant see him being overley bothered about doing it again.
I'll give him Sunday's performance as he may still be feeling the injury but if he performs the same on Saturday, he should only get an hour. It wouldn't do him any harm playing 90 minutes on Wednesday!
Souness also made a valid point about the fire having gone. Countless times yesterday a United player (usually Memphis or mata) actually ran passed rooney to press the opposition.
He was soooo poor yesterday that it was only when Mata came in from the right that we started getting on the ball and dictating play. Until then Carrick / Schniderlin's only pass on was the full backs as Rooney was hiding.
He's got a big few games ahead of him.
Those saying LVG wont drop him is nonsense. He likes his captain to play, obviously. However, he's "sacked" and dropped captains mid season before and I cant see him being overley bothered about doing it again.
I'll give him Sunday's performance as he may still be feeling the injury but if he performs the same on Saturday, he should only get an hour. It wouldn't do him any harm playing 90 minutes on Wednesday!
I found myself agreeing with Carragher yesterday as well. He seemed to be the only one bringing up the fact Rooney has to improve. We can't keep blaming the system.
We can talk about needing to find the right system, or the right position for Rooney to flourish but if he's going to be as awful as he has been for the last 6 months or so it doesn't matter what tactics we use.
We can talk about needing to find the right system, or the right position for Rooney to flourish but if he's going to be as awful as he has been for the last 6 months or so it doesn't matter what tactics we use.
a penalty in the carling cup on Wednesday should keep the wolf from the door
It's a strange position we're in, Rooney breaking the England goalscoring record and subsequently (and continually) being well below average in the PL. David Moyes made a rod for all our backs in giving Rooney the new contract when Fergie had clearly saw the writing on the wall. LVG utilises said rod in constantly whipping us with it in naming Rooney on his teamsheet (and arguably more irritatingly, keeping him on for the full 90!).
Media don't want to look stupid in calling him out as his records will stand the test of time even if these abysmal performances wont.
Our biggest obstacle is LVG's stubborn arrogance and his 'undroppable' captain. The sooner he sees Rooney's current form is detrimental to the team, the better. Who knows, a spell on the bench may reinvigorate Rooney, get the hunger back. Either way, his current form needs to be addressed.
Media don't want to look stupid in calling him out as his records will stand the test of time even if these abysmal performances wont.
Our biggest obstacle is LVG's stubborn arrogance and his 'undroppable' captain. The sooner he sees Rooney's current form is detrimental to the team, the better. Who knows, a spell on the bench may reinvigorate Rooney, get the hunger back. Either way, his current form needs to be addressed.
Wow.
I think the stat about him playing only one forward pass all game really should be a talking point. Even an all out defensive midfielder would be doing poorly with that, for a #10, who should be making more forward passes than anyone else in the team, it's a really, really shocking statistic, if it's true.
I think stubbornness more than anything else. When he first joined the club he pinned his team around Rooney; he gave him the captaincy, very early said he was one of the best players he's worked with and basically made the decision to build a team around him. The reason he pinned it around Rooney is obvious: he was the biggest name in the team and to someone who doesn't watch him every week he's been consistently one of the greatest players of our generation for the last decade. Even after 12 months of mediocrity pundits and "experts" are giving him 7/10 every week and blaming everyone but Rooney for his form.
People like Van Gaal do not accept they are wrong very easily, their ego is one of their biggest strengths but can also be a big weakness. Fergie did the same thing with Berbatov - after half a season it was abundantly clear that Tevez fit our team and system far better, but after spending over £30m and clearly seeing him as the final piece of the puzzle he backed Berbatov over all else. It took him 3.5 seasons to accept that his style was completely at odds with our team, despite most fans knowing it within 6 months.
My prediction is that by the end of this season he finally accepts that Rooney isn't what we need in the team. If Martial continues as he's started Van Gaal will have an easy get out in that Martial was such a great signing that he took his place in the team. However I'm not going to hold my breath, it could well take Van Gaal a similar period of time than it took Fergie with Berbatov and we'll have Rooney staggering around until his contract is up.
It's not.
He attempted 19 forward passes. Completing 14 of them. That's more forward passes than any other player in our front four.
You're also wrong about #10s making the most forward passes. They will always come from a deep-lying CM, who have much more targets in front of them. Either that or one of the defenders anyway.
Stat is complete bollocks, watching the game he definately completed a number of forward passes. His overrall performance wasn't great though
During other periods of goal-drought Rooney still looked like a quality player and had a lot of energy. For instance, he wasn't scoring goals in the first 1-2 months after he signed a new contract in 2010 but was quite good and created a lot of chances.
Nowadays, he's incredibly sluggish and contributes nothing in terms of physical presence and creativity. He's turning into a parody of a star player. If he continues like that, LVG will drop him. Otherwise, he won't finish the season as United manager because Rooney's insipid performances will cost us points. Yesterday we were a bit lucky to win, only the individual brilliance of DDG and Martial saved us. We won't be that lucky in other games though...
Nowadays, he's incredibly sluggish and contributes nothing in terms of physical presence and creativity. He's turning into a parody of a star player. If he continues like that, LVG will drop him. Otherwise, he won't finish the season as United manager because Rooney's insipid performances will cost us points. Yesterday we were a bit lucky to win, only the individual brilliance of DDG and Martial saved us. We won't be that lucky in other games though...
Don't forget Depay...
there's no chance he will be in the team by end of his contract, he will be waddling around the pitch like a penguin
He might have done that but I would be surprised if he does so with Rooney after all the praise he has showered on him.
Back on topic about Rooney's performances, one bit of play from him basically summed him up. It was in the second half and we had just gone on a great fast counter attack with one and two touch passes nearly getting us to the Soton penalty box. The ball is passed to Rooney who has a simple pass down his left to Memphis and he screws that up so bad that the defender not only intercepted it, he did so barely moving. Apart from this, the numerous times he tried to play a pass or flick it just went awry.
Right now he is more a mill around the neck than a captain we need.
What does Wayne Rooney actually have to do in order to get dropped??? Are we just going to continue rotating him around different positions to mask the fact that he is simply no longer good enough at this level?
It seems so...
I've yet to re-watch the game. Will be interesting to see how much my view changes, or not, with regards to Rooney's performance.
In the real time live game, all I remember is him playing it square time and time again and never trying anything creative or forward-thinking.
By the way, do lofted crossfield passes that go on a slight diagonal count as forward passes in these statistical analyses?
In the real time live game, all I remember is him playing it square time and time again and never trying anything creative or forward-thinking.
By the way, do lofted crossfield passes that go on a slight diagonal count as forward passes in these statistical analyses?
Probably yes
technically its forward I guess. But that pass of his is becoming a parody of itself, its embarrassingly predictable
If that's the case, it would be interesting to know how many "genuine" forward passes he made in the game with those discounted.
I've always been one of Rooney's biggest supporters, but he has been poor this season.
He looks like half the player he was even a few years ago. I hope he finds his feet again.
He looks like half the player he was even a few years ago. I hope he finds his feet again.
Forward passes:
Come on, I know you love him but we don't really need to go to the extremes. These are not genuine forward passes, it's sideways passes.
Especially when there's so much more on for someone who has hit plenty of good forward passes in his career. It's quite infuriating when he does it and then just jogs off upfield. It's his job to progress the ball in that position, not just spray it wide.
I'm starting to think that it doesn't have much to to with hunger and motivation. He knows he's playing badly, and I think he's dying to score and play well for us again.
Think he's just a bit burned out, his body has played a lot of football all these years. He'll have to change up his game a bit, because it doesn't look like his explosivity is coming back.
But that's about as meaningful as pointing out defenders who make nothing but 5 yard passes have ridiculously high pass percentage rates.
I should have said creative, or probing, forward passes to remove all doubt as to my inference.
Forward passes:
Come on, I know you love him but we don't really need to go to the extremes. These are not genuine forward passes, it's sideways passes.
What are you on about now? I'm not inventing statistics, just sharing them. The only "extreme" was the fictitious idea he only made one forward pass.
Yes you should. That would have been less melodramatic though, right?
Judging by that, it's 2 or 3 forward passes realistically and 0 shots attempted?Forward passes:
Come on, I know you love him but we don't really need to go to the extremes. These are not genuine forward passes, it's sideways passes.
There's actually no better time to drop him and let him have a few games off. We've two relatively simple fixtures coming up and then Wolfsburg. I don't think Rooney should start a single game, and should be given 20-30 minutes in each of the three.
Do you think there's any melodrama, Pogue?
Or are you saying the #10 in any team shouldn't be the most probing player in the side?
I'm amazed LvG continually plays him and I do wonder what is Rooney doing in training to be constantly given chance after chance. Herrera makes one bad pass and he's dropped for a few games, yet Rooney plays like garbage constantly and is always given 90 minutes.
It would be better for Rooney IMO if he is dropped! It may just be the kick up the arse he needs.
It would be better for Rooney IMO if he is dropped! It may just be the kick up the arse he needs.
There was nothing wrong with the claim that he didn't pass the ball forward yet you had to tackle that with some statistics that don't really prove otherwise when you look at them in detail. Has there ever been a time when you actually admitted Rooney was crap without trying to justify him?
You probably even have an argument for Martial scoring more away goals than Rooney this calendar year, international goals or whatever.
but he supposedly needs 2,3,4 games to get back to full fitness. So we are told
Forward passes:
Come on, I know you love him but we don't really need to go to the extremes. These are not genuine forward passes, it's sideways passes.
"Forward passes"
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