Shooting in San Bernardino, California

JPRouve said:
My bad then.
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No need to apologize. The calendar includes every shooting in which 4 or more people were at least injured. That also includes the shooter.

Your response just highlights the point I tried to make about the stats being a bit misleading without some actual context or background information on them.
 
Skizzo said:
No need to apologize. The calendar includes every shooting in which 4 or more people were at least injured. That also includes the shooter.

Your response just highlights the point I tried to make about the stats being a bit misleading without some actual context or background information on them.
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I actually looked at the reddit page and think that it's perfectly fine that they include the shooter and the people only injured.
 
N. J. Burkett ✔ @njburkett7
BREAKING: Killer couple's landlord tells @ABC7NY, "They didn't say they were terrorists when they moved in."
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:lol: :lol:

Investigators are also said to be following up a report that Farook had argued with a colleague at work who denounced the "inherent dangers of Islam".
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How dare you say my religion is dangerous...I will prove my point to you by......


killing 14 and injuring 21 people before getting gunned down by the authorities. :facepalm:
 
JPRouve said:
I actually looked at the reddit page and think that it's perfectly fine that they include the shooter and the people only injured.
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Fair enough. I just don't personally think it helps the conversation to have that calendar tossed out there because it automatically makes people assume things like Charleston and San Bernadino happen multiple times a day. Those are different problems, causes, issues to what happens with the majority of gun violence.

I don't see the same outpouring of concern from People when those public mass shootings are excluded. Where's all the threads on these drug dealers getting shot that apparently everyone is now shocked by?

Does taking away guns solve the problem? Possibly. But there's underlying issues that differ from the stats on there, and blindly grouping it into one chart doesn't help with that.
 
Skizzo said:
I said they should be explained and not grouped together, since the media doesn't care about about the gang shootings. That's padded in there with the Charleston shootings et al because it looks shocking and they can get their hits.

You really think they added in gang or drug shootings because they care about them? Or because it sensationalizes something they can report on? Flip it around, if the media didn't report on the 21 or so cases of mass shootings in public places, would you still be having this discussion? Don't remember anyone making a thread about needing to stop all the violence in any drug riddled, gang neighborhoods. (Happy to be proven wrong on that).

I agree this isn't the thread, and apologies if I started the derailing of it with my initial post. I do, however, take issue with the insinuation that I don't care about people's lives. If that was the case, I wouldn't do what I do.
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Fair enough.

The gun control and 'American cops doing what they do best' (awful title) threads contain discussion around all sorts of gun deaths, but this one has spiralled into the general debate already to be honest, as much down to me as anyone else.
 
Rado_N said:
Fair enough.

The gun control and 'American cops doing what they do best' (awful title) threads contain discussion around all sorts of gun deaths, but this one has spiralled into the general debate already to be honest, as much down to me as anyone else.
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I do agree with you that any gun related death is horrible, and its absolutely something that needs looking at seriously. I just took some issue with how that table presents it.

glad we agree on the awful title though :p
 
JPRouve said:
I'm not familiar with the context, but to me it's just a calendar that counts the daily number of mass shootings in the US. There is nothing else to explain, it's just the counts of events where more than 4 people have been shot with firearms.
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One could argue that classifying them all as mass shootings implies that they are similar in motive to the incidents that grab the headlines. The reality, as Skizzo indicated, being something else entirely. Not to say there isn't a problem but I think the calendar could easily be interpreted in that way.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
One could argue that classifying them all as mass shootings implies that they are similar in motive to the incidents that grab the headlines. The reality, as Skizzo indicated, being something else entirely. Not to say there isn't a problem but I think the calendar could easily be interpreted in that way.
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I like the calendar specifically because it doesn't make a difference. I don't care about mass shootings, I have a problem with shootings.
But like Skizzo insinuated there is a mediatic context and he probably should be respected but I have to admit I'm stranger to that context.
 
JPRouve said:
I like the calendar specifically because it doesn't make a difference. I don't care about mass shootings, I have a problem with shootings.
But like Skizzo insinuated there is a mediatic context and he probably should be respected but I have to admit I'm stranger to that context.
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If it included every gun death it'd probably need a sheet of A4 for every day.
 
Rado_N said:
If it included every gun death it'd probably need a sheet of A4 for every day.
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That's why I find it interesting, they only included a fairly high number of victims and the calendar is full.
 
Sir Matt said:
On the one hand, I'm glad she and her husband are dead. On the other, they could have had some intelligence if they were actually connected with anyone. It seems like they were more inspired by ISIS than a part of it.
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It's their baby I feel sorry for. Poor little mite was just left with a grandparent. How anyone could just abandon a little one like that, even with a family member, then go out and kill and be killed is beyond my comprehension.
 
JPRouve said:
That's why I find it interesting, they only included a fairly high number of victims and the calendar is full.
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12,256 people have died in America due to guns in this calendar year to date.

642 of those people were children under the age of 11.

2,426 of them were aged 11-17.
 
Rado_N said:
12,256 people have died in America due to guns in this calendar year to date.

642 of those people were children under the age of 11.

2,426 of them were aged 11-17.
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This might be the wrong thread, but a far more glaring concern is the complete lack of compassion of human life. Guns are potentially the most convenient way to carry out these atrocities. Concealable, could potentially escape and survive etc, but the fact that people want to inflict that level of pain, suffering, or death on a person of group of people, is far more jarring for me. Remove guns, and you may see a decrease in some areas, but if the mentality of people towards others remains as so, I don't see the incidents drastically decreasing.
 
Rado_N said:
12,256 people have died in America due to guns in this calendar year to date.

642 of those people were children under the age of 11.

2,426 of them were aged 11-17.
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Thanks, the figures are impressive.
 
Neutral said:
What's your point?

Gang violence isn't violence?

I am also aware when statistics for gun violence are compiled in this country - suicide by gunshot is included in that. I made no comments on the issue...others may have. As to why the media didn't report the other cases? Ask the media.

Just because you have an agenda doesn't mean I have one.
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An important over-looked point is that a law-abiding, middle-class citizen of the US, going about his own business, is hardly more likely to be killed in a mass-shooting than a citizen of a random European country. The American electorate don't much care about the gangbangers.
 
There is a photo online of the guy dead on the road. He is face down and in handcuffs I guess it's just procedure until the dr pronounces them dead.
 
Skizzo said:
Remove guns, and you may see a decrease in some areas, but if the mentality of people towards others remains as so, I don't see the incidents drastically decreasing.
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Pretty much every statistic available says the opposite. Most gun-free countries don't have a similar slew of public knife rampages every year. Australia doesn't have a problem with people bursting into cinemas with nail guns, just as the UK doesn't have a drive by spade hitting epidemic. The effectiveness of a weapon is directly linked to the chances of using it. Someone considering a murderous rampage is less likely to carry it out if all he's got is a big fork.
 
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Mockney said:
Pretty much every statistic available says the opposite. Most gun-free countries don't have a similar slew of public knife rampages every year. Australia doesn't have a problem with people bursting into cinemas with nail guns, just as the UK doesn't have a drive by spade hitting epidemic. The effectiveness of a weapon is directly linked to the chances of using it. Someone considering a murderous rampage is less likely to carry it out if all he's got is a big fork.
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Do other countries have the same mentality and culture of the U.S.? You can't just compare broadly across the World and say this works here, so it will work here.

I'm pretty sure plenty of gangs like MS-13 use machetes and other weapons, and there's plenty of drug cartels here that I don't think function in the Australian Outback.

How many of these people that were arrested on mass shootings had explosives at home?theres no reason to think that if they're as hell bent on causing injury and death that they wouldn't use those instead. They wouldnt even need that trusty fork you seem to have armed them with instead.

Are guns part of the problem? Sure. But like I said above, the distinct lack of respect for human life is the bigger factor IMO. With the media in this country pushing their own agenda for views and ratings, they perpetuate the cycle of violence.
 
Edit: Post moved to 'Gun Control' thread.
 
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fishfingers15 said:
The car drove by itself then?
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Possibly more to that rumour of their being a third suspect than they're letting on?

Maybe this was a feck up by the two and all the prep was for an arranged, future attack. The feds could be letting your man think he got away so they can try and follow him to the rest of the bad guys.

Although if he did leave them tied up in the back, he'd surely have to know they're onto him?
 
diarm said:
Possibly more to that rumour of their being a third suspect than they're letting on?

Maybe this was a feck up by the two and all the prep was for an arranged, future attack. The feds could be letting your man think he got away so they can try and follow him to the rest of the bad guys.

Although if he did leave them tied up in the back, he'd surely have to know they're onto him?
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The third suspect took off in a different direction and he was later apprehended and charged on other mild chargers. It was established that there were only two people on the car. IF both their hands are tied, then the car would have to be driving by itself. I'm not sure why Le Chuck asked the question, but I guess he is at least trying to say that there is a more sinister side to the story of two people, husband and wife for that matter going on a rampage like this.
 
Red Dreams said:
we need Federal gun laws that are uniform. no loopholes. Hunters would be able to keep thier guns. Register them.

Just common sense stuff.

But it will be a long time before any reasonable laws are passed.
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The sensible thing to do would be no guns in person. Period. Those with specific needs like hunters can rent their weapons for specific period with appropriate legal documents backing up their need.
 


This is just...

Also, that lawyer looks like Peter Gallagher.
 
LeChuck said:
I read online that man and wife (the shooters) were found face down and handcuffed in the back of their car. Any truth in this?
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If you really want to there is a footage of her body after it is removed from the car, her one hand is above her head.

I believe it is protocol to handcuff all downed suspects regardless of condition, I'm sure it caused a stir a while back in the Walter Scott case.

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2014/08/why-cops-handcuff-dead-people.html
 
RexHamilton said:
I'm assuming you're joking.

But if you're not, would you fancy attending concerts and sporting events where everyone is allowed to carry a gun?
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Exactly, I've been to gigs where a simple cup has been turned into a piss bomb, I really don't want these people (or any civilian really) carrying a gun.
 
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