Gay Marriage

[Jerch]

So, if I could find one family in the whole world where the roles were the opposite to your family, would it change your mind?

Oh my good stop it.

It turned out that I am arguing with bunch of dudes, who know nothing about real parenting other then their fancy studies. I think this is also a big problem in LGBT that they just don't have experience what is like to be a parent and what kid really need.
But it is sad, that you can't see a difference of what mother gave you and what father gave you. Ask them if they think two man's or two woman's can raise a child as good as father and mother and insult them when they will answer you with no.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Oh my good stop it.

It turned out that I am arguing with bunch of dudes, who know nothing about real parenting other then their fancy studies. I think this is also a big problem in LGBT that they just don't have experience what is like to be a parent and what kid really need.
But it is sad, that you can't see a difference of what mother gave you and what father gave you. Ask them if they think two man's or two woman's can raise a child as good as father and mother and insult them when they will answer you with no.

But seriously.. You give your family as one example. If there was one that was opposite, wouldn't it change your mind? If there was a child who preferred to sleep with their father, or a mother who was better at controlling the kids?

 

[Amethyst]

Oh my good stop it.

It turned out that I am arguing with bunch of dudes, who know nothing about real parenting other then their fancy studies. I think this is also a big problem in LGBT that they just don't have experience what is like to be a parent and what kid really need.

And they never will/would if people like you have your way.

But it is sad, that you can't see a difference of what mother gave you and what father gave you. Ask them if they think two man's or two woman's can raise a child as good as father and mother and insult them when they will answer you with no.

I've already answered that point twice about other members of society providing the values that you need. You've ignored it both times.

 

[Jerch]

And they never will if people like you have your way.

I've already answered that point twice about other members of society providing the values that you need. You've ignored it both times.

So you are saying that mother is replaceable?

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Just in case, here's one example to counter your one example. But maybe this person is wrong about feeling happy..

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/raised-by-gay-parents-2102831-May2015/

 

[Amethyst]

So you are saying that mother is replaceable?

Yes... well maybe not quite as bluntly as that. Do you think that any kid who grows up without a mother (or a father) can't be as happy and as a good a person as one who's raised by both a mother and a father? Whether it's an auntie, an older sister, a grandmother, a family friend or someone else, those values you would have been taught by your mother can still be instilled. And as I said, those who do grow up with a mother and father learn things from those around them. Do you honestly think that your children are going to learn everything they know solely from you and your wife? Of course not. You'll have a large input clearly, but not 100%.

 

[Jerch]

I will stop the disscusion here since arguing about parenting with people who know nothing about it is kinda stupid. Enjoy your beutiful equal word, which is clearly not equal and if someone think other then you it allows you to call him names even if that guy know about 100% more about the subject since you all together have 0% experience in parenting.

Maybe next time you could use more apropriate language and tried to understand what a man who is arguing against you is trying to say. Hope mods (@Cina , @Raoul ) will have a look into some posts as i didn't offended anyone but I was called names all the time with the "funny" jokes i a way of "i am lucky not be raised by jerch" which are not easy to hear since you don't even know me or how i raise my child or what do i sacrifice for a child but you are calling me a bad parent because i raise my child in a way i believe it is right and which goes with the tradition of my religion.
And yeah so much about the religion equality also, with calling me names because i believe in a family of a father, mother and kids you called names many who are muslim, christian or many other religions which believe in a family of a father, mother and kids. It looks like there is only one equality that matters to you all.

Have a good night.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Just in case, here's one example to counter your one example. But maybe this person is wrong about feeling happy..

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/raised-by-gay-parents-2102831-May2015/

I will stop the disscusion here since arguing about parenting with people who know nothing about it is kinda stupid. Enjoy your beutiful equal word, which is clearly not equal and if someone think other then you it allows you to call him names even if that guy know about 100% more about the subject since you all together have 0% experience in parenting.

Maybe next time you could use more apropriate language and tried to understand what a man who is arguing against you is trying to say. Hope mods (@Cina , @Raoul ) will have a look into some posts as i didn't offended anyone but I was called names all the time with the "funny" jokes i a way of "i am lucky not be raised by jerch".

Have a good night.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

By the way, some people might find it ironic that youre dismissing us for lack of experience, yet are totally sure yourself that there are no good sides to gay marriage, with all of that huge level of experience you have in it

 

[Silva]

Oh my good stop it.

It turned out that I am arguing with bunch of dudes, who know nothing about real parenting other then their fancy studies. I think this is also a big problem in LGBT that they just don't have experience what is like to be a parent and what kid really need.
But it is sad, that you can't see a difference of what mother gave you and what father gave you. Ask them if they think two man's or two woman's can raise a child as good as father and mother and insult them when they will answer you with no.

The thing is, Jerch, that not all hetero parents are actually good parents. My dad, for example, is an even worse version of you. I'd definitely have been better off with two mums. But his bad parenting had little to do with his sexuality - he's just a bad parent. Similarly, within the gay community there are people who would be great parents and people who would be bad ones. They're really no different to you, and this myth you keep peddling, that two heterosexual parents are superior really is wrong and offensive. It's offensive to gay people who are great parents and it's a little bit offensive to people with shitty heterosexual parents. The ideal you want simply doesn't exist - no two families are alike, heterosexual or homosexual - and attempting to limit homosexuals because of an ideal that bears no resemblance to reality is really backward. The sooner you accept that gay people and straight people are the same the easier you'll be able to deal with the change in attitude that your country is currently experiencing. And it will actually help you be a better parent to your children, because you won't try to teach them ignorant things.

 

[Hostekule]

The thing is, Jerch, that not all hetero parents are actually good parents. My dad, for example, is an even worse version of you. I'd definitely have been better off with two mums. But his bad parenting had little to do with his sexuality - he's just a bad parent. Similarly, within the gay community there are people who would be great parents and people who would be bad ones. They're really no different to you, and this myth you keep peddling, that two heterosexual parents are superior really is wrong and offensive. It's offensive to gay people who are great parents and it's a little bit offensive to people with shitty heterosexual parents. The ideal you want simply doesn't exist - no two families are alike, heterosexual or homosexual - and attempting to limit homosexuals because of an ideal that bears no resemblance to reality is really backward. The sooner you accept that gay people and straight people are the same the easier you'll be able to deal with the change in attitude that your country is currently experiencing. And it will actually help you be a better parent to your children, because you won't try to teach them ignorant things.

Very good post.

 

[ravi2]

The thing is, Jerch, that not all hetero parents are actually good parents. My dad, for example, is an even worse version of you. I'd definitely have been better off with two mums. But his bad parenting had little to do with his sexuality - he's just a bad parent. Similarly, within the gay community there are people who would be great parents and people who would be bad ones. They're really no different to you, and this myth you keep peddling, that two heterosexual parents are superior really is wrong and offensive. It's offensive to gay people who are great parents and it's a little bit offensive to people with shitty heterosexual parents. The ideal you want simply doesn't exist - no two families are alike, heterosexual or homosexual - and attempting to limit homosexuals because of an ideal that bears no resemblance to reality is really backward. The sooner you accept that gay people and straight people are the same the easier you'll be able to deal with the change in attitude that your country is currently experiencing. And it will actually help you be a better parent to your children, because you won't try to teach them ignorant things.

Very thought provoking post...I enjoy reading your posts in general, thank you!

 

[Jerch]

Ok my last last reply in this thread.

The thing is, Jerch, that not all hetero parents are actually good parents.

Yeah same as same sex parents as are you also saying further in your post.

My dad, for example, is an even worse version of you.

Oh and here it is, a cheap shot, you could made one sentence before insulting me yet again, bravo. Why am I a bad parent if I raise my child the best way I can and if I raise him in tradition of my religion. Do you really saying that if you are raising your child in the tradition of your religion you are automatically a bad parent. Do you know that you insult with this sentence quite a significant number of people? Please answer to that question.

I'd definitely have been better off with two mums. But his bad parenting had little to do with his sexuality - he's just a bad parent.

You really can't know that. I don't know your father or the way he raised you etc. but maybe, even if you don't think this now, he gave you something special which will you understand when you will be older. Father is one and only, even if he is "bad", and i know many stories when kids and parents didn't get along very well when kid was 18-25 but they got together after that phase. Hope you relationship will father will improve because you will see he is and will be special man for you.

Similarly, within the gay community there are people who would be great parents and people who would be bad ones.

Totally agree, many forget that. Yes there are bad homo and hetero parents. And also a great homo and hetero parents.

They're really no different to you, and this myth you keep peddling, that two heterosexual parents are superior really is wrong and offensive. It's offensive to gay people who are great parents and it's a little bit offensive to people with shitty heterosexual parents.
The ideal you want simply doesn't exist - no two families are alike, heterosexual or homosexual - and attempting to limit homosexuals because of an ideal that bears no resemblance to reality is really backward.

They are different. As I said I have also questions because of my religion. It is unfair to force me about thinking that something is great which my religion say that it is not so great. Where is equality there, or does equality goes out of the window when we talk about people who are against.
But not only religion. I believe that for the most perfect family you will have a loving father and a mother. Take that away and change with two fathers or two mothers and you are one step behind. Still great parents, I agree that two loving same sex couples who really thing about what is the best for the kid are definetly better than abusive hetero parents.
But as you said, there are bad hetero and homo parents. And if we look at it same sex parents will be always that little step behind. That doesn't mean they are bad, definetly not and definetly much better then bad hetero parents but you can't compare abusive hetero and great homo parents when there are as much great hetero and abusive homo parents.
So i don't agree that we throw away a perfection from the start. That is not backward thinking but thinking about a guy who want all the best for the kids.

The sooner you accept that gay people and straight people are the same the easier you'll be able to deal with the change in attitude that your country is currently experiencing. And it will actually help you be a better parent to your children, because you won't try to teach them ignorant things.

I teach my kids what i believe, the things that worked for me, from school to religion. Ateist must know that there are still many many people who are still into a religion and you still have to respect us. It is not ignorant.
And i never ever make a difference between straight and gay people. They are the same and when we are at kids, both can be great parents, but kid for the perfect situation need a mother and a father. That is only my opinion.

Oh and one last thing. Of course kids from same sex couples will not all be missing that second parent but there will be more kids from same sex families which will miss that special bond to the other sex parent than kids in the hetero families. And this can result in the mental or other problems.
Maybe only one in 100 will sufer some problems because of it but it is one to much for me.

 

[Silva]

Ok my last last reply in this thread.

Yeah same as same sex parents as are you also saying further in your post.

Exactly. See, you're making progress.

Oh and here it is, a cheap shot, you could made one sentence before insulting me yet again, bravo. Why am I a bad parent if I raise my child the best way I can and if I raise him in tradition of my religion. Do you really saying that if you are raising your child in the tradition of your religion you are automatically a bad parent. Do you know that you insult with this sentence quite a significant number of people? Please answer to that question.

Yes to all of that. You're poisoning their little minds. And frankly, I'll take every opportunity to offend that significant number of people because they live in a different century to everyone else.

You really can't know that. I don't know your father or the way he raised you etc. but maybe, even if you don't think this now, he gave you something special which will you understand when you will be older. Father is one and only, even if he is "bad", and i know many stories when kids and parents didn't get along very well when kid was 18-25 but they got together after that phase. Hope you relationship will father will improve because you will see he is and will be special man for you.

He's a piece of shit and that's unlikely to change. I'm never going to have a good relationship with the kind of man that actively taught me to hate people when I was a child and who continues to try that shit. He uses culture and religion as an excuse too. Maybe you should think of this as a warning. Do you want your kids to speak about you in these terms?

Totally agree, many forget that. Yes there are bad homo and hetero parents. And also a great homo and hetero parents.

Exactly. Which is why they should have the same rights. See, more progress.

They are different. As I said I have also questions because of my religion. It is unfair to force me about thinking that something is great which my religion say that it is not so great. Where is equality there, or does equality goes out of the window when we talk about people who are against.

They're no different, they're people, like you and me, with feelings and bowl movements all else that being entails. And why are you trying to force your religion on people who don't agree with it?

But not only religion. I believe that for the most perfect family you will have a loving father and a mother. Take that away and change with two fathers or two mothers and you are one step behind. Still great parents, I agree that two loving same sex couples who really thing about what is the best for the kid are definetly better than abusive hetero parents.

There is no such thing as "The most perfect family." Great gay parents are exactly the same as great straight parents.

But as you said, there are bad hetero and homo parents. And if we look at it same sex parents will be always that little step behind. That doesn't mean they are bad, definetly not and definetly much better then bad hetero parents but you can't compare abusive hetero and great homo parents when there are as much great hetero and abusive homo parents.

I'm not comparing abusive heterosexuals to good homosexual parents. I'm comparing all heterosexual parents with all homosexual parents and there's no difference. They're pretty fecking similar.

So i don't agree that we throw away a perfection from the start. That is not backward thinking but thinking about a guy who want all the best for the kids.

This is a myth. There is no such thing as a perfect family. All families are different.

I teach my kids what i believe, the things that worked for me, from school to religion. Ateist must know that there are still many many people who are still into a religion and you still have to respect us. It is not ignorant.

I really don't have to respect you even a little bit on this. There are millions of religious people who are completely at ease with homosexuality. Maybe if you joined them.

And i never ever make a difference between straight and gay people. They are the same and when we are at kids, both can be great parents, but kid for the perfect situation need a mother and a father. That is only my opinion.

Again, it's an opinion that's based on a myth that doesn't exist. There is no such thing as a perfect family.

Oh and one last thing. Of course kids from same sex couples will not all be missing that second parent but there will be more kids from same sex families which will miss that special bond to the other sex parent than kids in the hetero families. And this can result in the mental or other problems.
Maybe only one in 100 will sufer some problems because of it but it is one to much for me.

This isn't true. It's a simple mistake, and I understand that having kids must blind you a little bit here, but anyone who puts their heart into raising a child will form a special bond with them.

 

[Skizzo]

@Jerch I am a parent. I agree it gives a different perspective, but I still wouldn't agree with your outlook that same sex parents are worse for kids.

As for your other point, I also asked my mother if she though that a same sex couple could raise a child as well as Hetero parents. She said of course. She's also in the child care field, as a director of a non profit nursery center.

You may feel that people are in here offending you, but you need to understand that people were offended with your views and how you chose to express them, with complete disregard for how anyone would feel about being called second rate people just because of their sexuality. No different than judging because of skin colour.

 

[Skizzo]

Wow, now we're getting deep into the subject.

I'm like Barbara Walters with the tough questions

"Dad, why does grandad always ask who cooks the dinners and who changes the fuses in plugs in our house?"

"At least he hasn't asked which of us is the plug and which is the socket."

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Ok my last last reply in this thread.

I sincerely doubt it

As for the rest, it's more of the same from you - your own thinly veiled bias and some random unfounded and unsupported "facts" with no proof whatsoever thrown in from who knows where. Are you sure you're not a GOP presidential candidate??

After I asked you if you'd change your mind if we say a contrary example to your family, we've had the article I posted, Silva's situation, Skizzo's situation (who is a parent) and his mother who also has the perspective of working in childcare. So that's 4 to 1, in basic terms, with the last of those far, far more qualified than you to talk about what's best for kids.

Using your own logic, you have 0% experience of family situations outside of your own, yet you think you know what they're like. More than that, you want to dictate to others what should happen in their lives from that personal experience and from your religion. That's screamingly arrogant.

You also think that your personal family experience outweighs the family experience of others and the rafts of scientist working in the fields of sociology, psychology and childcare whose years of peer-reviewed, valid work you're happy to throw away as "the gays just getting the research to say what they want".

Again using your own logic, what right do you have to tell anyone what the "perfect" family should be when you have 0% experience of any other family? What right do you have to discount the woman in the article I posted who said she had a very, very happy childhood with 2 mothers? What right do you have to (ugh!) cast an aspersion that because of her parents' sex she might grow up to have mental problems with no proof whatsoever to back up that statement??

Let's not forget you also tried to use the sickening argument that civil partners have the same rights as married couples (they tried that here too), even though they DO NOT due to a conservative group in your country organising an opposition to that and defeating it (exact same thing happened here). Then, you said that another bill was created to give them more rights "which the gays turned down because it didn't include adoption", despite the fact you say that there is also ZERO EVIDENCE of ANY of that happening at all because "something something politics" That's some heavy accusations there, mate, that could be seen by some people as you trying to insinuate something about gay people.

Oh, and by the way, I found out what happened to that bill. It's public record and very easy to find, actually. Nothing to do with gay people at all, it turns out. What a surprise.

To anyone who'd take time to read this thread, it would be very clear that you started out with a personal bias that you tried to justify with shoddy research, then moved the goalposts a few times when all of that was shown to be nonsense, then gave up on arguing at all when everyone picked apart your weak arguments for treating people as second-class humans and simply said you know better than everyone else because of how YOUR life happens to be like at the moment!

 

[Wibble]

I am not homophobic! One video which describes all my thinking and all my fears about the same sex parenting.


Sadly on one side there are people who try to give kids the best possible environment, on the other side are sadly people who talk just about me, me, me, my rights, me, my rights, my rights,...

I didn't say you were. Although I suspect you are a bit in the sense that you seem to have some preconception that gay parents are somehow lesser. This isn't an insult as most of us have prejudices no matter how hard we try not to.

Kids need good parents with 2 usually preferable to one but their sex or sexual orientation doesn't seem to be anthing to be concerned about.

People are often irrationally concerned that the kid's sexual orientation may be changed or that the kids are more likely to be sexually abused? Neirher of which are true.

 

[Wibble]

@Amethyst yeah of course everyone who is adopted is wondering who their real parents are.[/QUOTE]

I'm not.

 

[RexHamilton]

By the way, some people might find it ironic that youre dismissing us for lack of experience, yet are totally sure yourself that there are no good sides to gay marriage, with all of that huge level of experience you have in it

I was just thinking this as I was reading the last page or two. Or how couples without children, homsexual or heterosexual, can't have an opinion because they have no children and no experience in parenting.

The bottom line is, @Jerch thinks gays are ikky. There's nothing else to it. He says that gay couples shouldn't be allowed have children becuase it is not the ideal environment for a child to be raised. Now, I obviously don't agree, but lets just pretend he's right. Are gay parents worse than abusive or negligent parents and I don't just mean extreme cases where children are sexually or physically abused or neglected to the point of starvation. I mean every day environments in which children are unhappy.

I am a primary school teacher and I see many, many children who are in environments with bad parents. There are parents who send their children to school with a chocolate bar for lunch, don't help their children with homework or even talk to them after school. I know 7/8 year olds who make their own breakfast and make their own way to school. I know children who come to school having not been washed in a week. I know children who listen to extremely inappropriate things in their hom environments. And these are the non-extreme cases. These are the children who aren't even on social servies radar. These are the children who have no hope of help. They are not in danger of starving or being abused, but they are not being looked after as a child is.

So of @Jerch, you are so concerned about the children and you are not homophobic, then you should be actively campaigning to help these children. They are the children of heterosexual parents but they are not happy children and not children who have a good home life. Would some homosexual parents be the same? You're right they would. But there would be plenty of homosexual parents who would give these children a far, far better life than the one they are getting right now. To suggest that people are better parents, just because they are a heterosexual couple is obviously extremely insulting to gay people, but it's also very wrong and very, very ignorant.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

In the first few weeks of the referendum in this country, we had the likes of Keith Mills, Paddy Manning and their cronies of the Iona "Institute" on our tv screens and radios spouting the kind of research that you've put in this thread, totally unchallenged. We had them putting up posters all over the country of what a "perfect" family looked like that made children cry who didn't have a family that looked like that, that made grown people cry when it reminded them of losing a parent when they were children. We had these people claim that they were being silenced despite the fact that they had vast amounts of time and space in newspapers. We had them taking out revolting ads in newspapers. We had them casting dark hints at a "gay lobby", discuss gravely about a horrific future full of hybrid babies and designer children who would be thrown away when the parents got bored, none of which had anything to do with the law change. We had all of the same civil partnership stuff you mentioned, barefaced lies given the hundreds of differences between marriage and civil partnership. We had the sinister casting of the debate as all about men, conveniently forgetting that women can be gay too, and then the even more sinister aspersion that the men could be paedophiles, which we've seen in one of the videos from your country.

At first, naturally, anyone who had a passing interest in this debate was shocked and horrified. People like me who saw no reason to stand in the way of someone else's happiness, who has gay friends and knows they're just the same as me, were totally taken aback. Could they be right? Could there be some truth in all of the facts and figures the anti side were quoting?

So what did people like me do? We got educated. I put so much time into studying this topic because I felt it was important to do so, especially given the fact that with my vote I was going to decide the future of someone else, a future that would have no effect on my life whatsoever but a massive effect on theirs. I was voting on someone else's life.

I read everything I could. I fact-checked. I sought out legitimate sources. I went to the root of sources and found out who was really behind them. I read bios of researchers looking for biases. I looked where their funding for that research came from.

What did we find? Well, over the course of the rest of the referendum, as people stopped being shocked and started asking questions, the veil started to fall. We learned about the likes Mark Regnerus, Robert Oscar Lopez, and where exactly the funding for all of these posters and newspaper ads were coming from. We learned about how right-wing evangelical Christians in America wanted to keep Ireland "pure" for their own purposes so that they could point to it as a beacon in their sermons - they probably think the same way about your country. We got informed about the exact legal situation - I even read most of the report that the anti people commissioned, the hundred odd pages of it, which could only reach the lame conclusion that a passed referendum would ensure noone could be discriminated against. We watched how the arguments of the anti people started to collapse once they were questioned and how they tried to brush off the likes of UNESCO telling them off for misusing their data. We watched how their deep, bitter bias came to the front and the mask started to fall. They started to say wilder and more desperate things in the debates now that their "research" was shown to be lies.

That's most likely not why our referendum passed, though. The reason it passed was because people looked around and said, "You know what? You're not actually that different from me". People listened to the hearfelt stories of others whose lives they were going to change. People saw that what they wanted from marriage was not something sinister, but exactly the same thing that straight people want from marriage. It was a revelation for the country and I hope your country will have the same revelation. Some day, you will too, no matter what you think, when it finally touches someone close to you. For some people, that's the only thing that will break through to them.

 

[Player Red]

Oh my good stop it.

It turned out that I am arguing with bunch of dudes, who know nothing about real parenting other then their fancy studies. I think this is also a big problem in LGBT that they just don't have experience what is like to be a parent and what kid really need.
But it is sad, that you can't see a difference of what mother gave you and what father gave you. Ask them if they think two man's or two woman's can raise a child as good as father and mother and insult them when they will answer you with no.

So you just want to deny them the right to be a parent?

 

[Player Red]

Oh my good stop it.

It turned out that I am arguing with bunch of dudes, who know nothing about real parenting other then their fancy studies. I think this is also a big problem in LGBT that they just don't have experience what is like to be a parent and what kid really need.
But it is sad, that you can't see a difference of what mother gave you and what father gave you. Ask them if they think two man's or two woman's can raise a child as good as father and mother and insult them when they will answer you with no.

You are from Slovenia, where 38% of marriages end in divorce, does this mean that there are loads of kids in your country running around with mental issues because they didn't have the "perfect" family?

 

[Jippy]

I didn't say you were. Although I suspect you are a bit in the sense that you seem to have some preconception that gay parents are somehow lesser. This isn't an insult as most of us have prejudices no matter how hard we try not to.

Kids need good parents with 2 usually preferable to one but their sex or sexual orientation doesn't seem to be anthing to be concerned about.

People are often irrationally concerned that the kid's sexual orientation may be changed or that the kids are more likely to be sexually abused? Neirher of which are true.

Clearly the latter is particularly ridiculous and offensive, but do think some people worry that the kids may be bullied a lot growing up. While it may be a different age to when you and I went to school, kids can still be incredibly cruel. Not saying this is in any way a reason not to have gay parents, but I reckon some of their kids will have a tough time.

 

[RexHamilton]

Clearly the latter is particularly ridiculous and offensive, but do think some people worry that the kids may be bullied a lot growing up. While it may be a different age to when you and I went to school, kids can still be incredibly cruel. Not saying this is in any way a reason not to have gay parents, but I reckon some of their kids will have a tough time.

There is even more chance of this when people attach a stigma to it. I'd wager, the children doing most of the bullying are the ones that find something strange about a same sex couple, which would generally be an attitude they take from home.

 

[Wibble]

But seriously.. You give your family as one example. If there was one that was opposite, wouldn't it change your mind? If there was a child who preferred to sleep with their father, or a mother who was better at controlling the kids?

My son slept with both of us or either of us if one of us was away. He had no preference. And neither of us needed to be controlling as we discussed and reasoned about stuff with him from a young age. I also did more of the school run type stuff as well.

 

[Wibble]

Clearly the latter is particularly ridiculous and offensive, but do think some people worry that the kids may be bullied a lot growing up. While it may be a different age to when you and I went to school, kids can still be incredibly cruel. Not saying this is in any way a reason not to have gay parents, but I reckon some of their kids will have a tough time.

Some places where there is prejudice.

My son and his mates don't give a stuff about such things, or race or colour or ethnicity. There are a few kids with gay parents at his school and it is seen as normal (or more likely irrelevant).

 

[unchanged_lineup]

My son slept with both of us or either of us if one of us was away. He had no preference. And neither of us needed to be controlling as we discussed and reasoned about stuff with him from a young age. I also did more of the school run type stuff as well.

And there we have a fifth example, Jerch.... maybe there are families in this world that are different to yours

 

[Wibble]

I think this is also a big problem in LGBT that they just don't have experience what is like to be a parent and what kid really need.

I didn't have any experience being a parent until I became a parent.

 

[Jippy]

There is even more chance of this when people attach a stigma to it. I'd wager, the children doing most of the bullying are the ones that find something strange about a same sex couple, which would generally be an attitude they take from home.

Some places where there is prejudice.

My son and his mates don't give a stuff about such things, or race or colour or ethnicity. There are a few kids with gay parents at his school and it is seen as normal (or more likely irrelevant).

Will take years in some places though. My missus is from Mauritius and wasn't that long ago that they decriminalised homosexuality. Anal is still illegal (for men and women). One of her mate's cousins is gay and is scared he would be disowned if he came out. Some countries seems light years away from accepting gay adoption.

 

[McUnited]

To be fair to Jerch, he's probably not the most offensive poster in this thread. That would go to @McUnited, who earlier posted about people marrying animals after I made the interracial comparison on one of the early pages.

I imagine one would only take offence if you equate the two. The fact that I didn't equate the two would suggest that offence should not be taken, unless it's the very mention of marrying animals that one finds offensive.

Leaving this aside, I'm not sure that throwing out such accolades, whether warranted or not, engenders fruitful discussion.

 

[langster]

My son slept with both of us or either of us if one of us was away. He had no preference. And neither of us needed to be controlling as we discussed and reasoned about stuff with him from a young age. I also did more of the school run type stuff as well.

My youngest son often slept in bed with me, and only really stopped in the last 6 months or so since he turned 9. His older brother was exactly the same. I did 90% of the school runs for both of them, morning drops to school and afternoon pick ups, they also always came with me when I did the food shopping, and I cooked every night when I lived at home with their mum. Their mother was always completely opposite to me in how we should discipline the boys too, with her being shout, scream and sometimes worse, and I being the more rational, calm, loving and caring and the one prepared to listen before judging or handing out punishments. It was often widely pointed out to me (us) that I was the mother figure and she was more like a father. The point being, I had to be both really.

When we separated my eldest lad got kicked out by his mum and came to live with me, he would have come to live with me if he hadn't been kicked out, but his mum forced the issue and made him choose, she didn't like the answer so kicked him out. My youngest would be here permanently if he could be, too.

Kids just need loving caring parents. That's it. People who will be there for them, listen to them, care for them, help educate them, stop them from being frightened, understand their problems and look after them. It matters not if that's a mother and a father, or two mothers or two fathers, more that the parents they do have are there for them and happy. Parents arguing, fighting and falling out all the time is by far the most destructive thing in a childs upbringing. Single parents have it far tougher, and I know from experience that kids just need love and support.

 

[Shamwow]

I can't wait until people stop indoctrinating their kids with religion. Believe it yourself sure but let your kids make up their own mind please! I might be waiting a while mind.

 

[RexHamilton]

Kids just need loving caring parents. That's it. People who will be there for them, listen to them, care for them, help educate them, stop them from being frightened, understand their problems and look after them. It matters not if that's a mother and a father, or two mothers or two fathers, more that the parents they do have are there for them and happy. Parents arguing, fighting and falling out all the time is by far the most destructive thing in a childs upbringing. Single parents have it far tougher, and I know from experience that kids just need love and support.

End of argument as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Amethyst]

I imagine one would only take offence if you equate the two. The fact that I didn't equate the two would suggest that offence should not be taken, unless it's the very mention of marrying animals that one finds offensive.

Leaving this aside, I'm not sure that throwing out such accolades, whether warranted or not, engenders fruitful discussion.

Perhaps, but the fact you even went there was weird. I don't believe for one moment you aren't aware of the difference between a gay person wishing to marry a fellow consenting adult and them wishing to marry their 'deceased dog'.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Perhaps, but the fact you even went there was weird. I don't believe for one moment you aren't aware of the difference between a gay person wishing to marry a fellow consenting adult and them wishing to marry their 'deceased dog'.

Anyone who brings that up in an argument knows exactly why they are doing it.

This isn't so much an argument about gay marriage as it is a scare tactic and a demeaning remark about gays. The idea is to suggest that somehow the love between two persons of the same sex could be no more than that between a person and an animal. It's really just an inflammatory remark that assumes that homosexuals are less human than heterosexuals, but let's consider it anyway.

The real question isn't "if two men can marry, then why not a man and a pig," but rather, "if a man and a woman can marry, then why not a man and a pig?" How about "if a man and a woman can get married, why not a man and his sister?" A man and his sister would, after all, be an opposite-sex couple. Rhetorically, these questions are identical. Better still, "if a man and a woman can marry, then why not a man and a man?"

These rhetorical questions aren't arguments; they're just inflammatory remarks which make the hidden assumption that heterosexual couples are worthy of marrying but homosexual couples are not. (It's almost circular reasoning in some respects; because homosexuals are unworthy of marriage, ask a rhetorical question that's supposed to relate that unworthiness.) This hidden assumption can be challenged and invalidated simply by asking the same question a different way, inverting or removing the assumption. If heterosexuals can get married, why not a man and his sister? If heterosexuals can get married, why not homosexuals? And if you don't like answering questions like that one, why are you asking them?

 

[ravi2]

Kids just need loving caring parents. That's it. People who will be there for them, listen to them, care for them, help educate them, stop them from being frightened, understand their problems and look after them. It matters not if that's a mother and a father, or two mothers or two fathers, more that the parents they do have are there for them and happy. Parents arguing, fighting and falling out all the time is by far the most destructive thing in a childs upbringing. Single parents have it far tougher, and I know from experience that kids just need love and support.

This is so true.

 

[Wibble]

Kids just need loving caring parents. That's it.

That is the long and short of it.

 

[adexkola]

I think that for so many people, the norm, or what pops into their head, when they imagine a family best suited to take care of a child, is a heterosexual couple joined in marriage. Ignoring same sex marriage or partnerships for the moment, anything else that doesn't fall under that ideal os frowned upon as not ideal. For example, adoption panels are extremely biased against single men looking to adopt a kid. All they see are red flags. At best, one is gently encouraged to find a wife before reapplying. Society sees marriage as the most stable place to raise kids in. I'm not sure if that is right but this is done with the best interest of the kid at heart.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

The whole thing is such nonsense anyway. Like @Silva said, marriage is simply a load of bullcrap. Sometimes it works out, most of the time it doesn't. There's no 'perfect family' or 'perfect union'.

I'm raised by a single mother. She worked long hours 30 miles from where we lived leaving me alone sometimes because she was disowned by her parents for having me and couldn't pay for childcare. I grew up intelligent enough, don't have any problem with my sexuality despite not having a man in the house. I'm sound emotionally. What @Jerch said is personally insulting to me if I choose to because, guess what, by your 'opinion', you are saying that anything less than a man and woman is a failure and I'm having (potential)problem because of it. How does that sound to you?