Do you think David Moyes would have succeeded if he spent the money LvG has been given?
The Spurs thread
- Thread starter GlastonSpur
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Do you think David Moyes would have succeeded if he spent the money LvG has been given?
No. What it has to do with this though?
I never said that we'll finish for sure above Spurs next season.
But over the course of a long time, the bad managers get sacked and the bad players gets sold. And unless someone clones Fergie, all teams will have their share of good and bad managers, so this evens out.
Put it on some other way. We can afford on completely risking signings like Di Maria and Martial but Spurs can't. And eventually, over a large number of years, this will be the difference in the end.
Buuuurn!
A twelve year old wouldn't have this exquisite understanding of statistics.
Where did you get that number from? The transfermarkt database lists him with 17 goals and 19 assists in 81 matches and afaik they even count it as an assist if you get fouled in the penalty area.
It's also quite easy to pick up goals and assists when your team utterly shits on most of their opponents, for example Pizarro had 13 goals and 9 assists in 1091 minutes (that's a goal or assists every 50 minutes) in his first season and 11 goals and 4 assists in 854 minutes in his second season (57MpG/A).
If he was such a top performer at Bayern he would've played more than 340 league minutes in his final season, Bayern wouldn't have sold him in the middle of the season and someone like Weiser wouldn't have gotten to play twice as much when he replaced him.
Last edited:
"As a result of these accounting shenanigans, clubs often look at EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Depreciation and Amortisation) for a better idea of underlying profitability. On this basis, United are the undisputed champions, as their operations have produced enormous cash flow over the years.
Despite a fall in 2014/15 from £130 million to £120 million, this is still substantially more than other clubs, e.g. Arsenal’s EBITDA of £64 million is only around half of United’s, while Manchester City’s 2013/14 figure was also much lower at £75 million. Indeed, United are projecting an astonishing £165-175 million of EBITDA for 2015/16." http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Manchester United
I think United are just too big for Spurs to become a serious rival over a long period of time without sugar daddy money
Despite a fall in 2014/15 from £130 million to £120 million, this is still substantially more than other clubs, e.g. Arsenal’s EBITDA of £64 million is only around half of United’s, while Manchester City’s 2013/14 figure was also much lower at £75 million. Indeed, United are projecting an astonishing £165-175 million of EBITDA for 2015/16." http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Manchester United
I think United are just too big for Spurs to become a serious rival over a long period of time without sugar daddy money
This post and the stream of previous posts you've made in this thread are completely at odds with each other.
There are more important things to a genuine football fan than how many trophys his or her club has won and certainly more important than how much money their club has or can blow on transfers. Sadly for you I don't think this is something you will ever be able to understand or indeed enjoy.
You seem very frustrated that there's a genuine possibility that a club like Spurs could be challenging your position again next year, you feel it's an injustice as they have less money so how can it be fair for a club like that to challenge your bank account.
"As a result of these accounting shenanigans, clubs often look at EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Depreciation and Amortisation) for a better idea of underlying profitability. On this basis, United are the undisputed champions, as their operations have produced enormous cash flow over the years.
Despite a fall in 2014/15 from £130 million to £120 million, this is still substantially more than other clubs, e.g. Arsenal’s EBITDA of £64 million is only around half of United’s, while Manchester City’s 2013/14 figure was also much lower at £75 million. Indeed, United are projecting an astonishing £165-175 million of EBITDA for 2015/16." http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Manchester United
I think United are just too big for Spurs to become a serious rival over a long period of time without sugar daddy money
Exactly. And no it is not fair. It is the reason why I was always against FFP, because it just means that the rich gets richer.
It is a very elitist system. Most of the clubs need to make near-perfect decisions to compete, and then a big bad decision and they are on square one, while a few clubs can make insane decisions repeatedly and still do fine.
As fair as TV rights in England are, they aren't fair enough. In an ideal world, all the TV money in addition to all the UCL money EPL clubs get, should be divided into 20 equal parts. The top clubs will anyway get more money because of their commercial deals.
But I guess that is not going to happen, which is why the likes of Spurs won't become a bigger club than United even we really rehire Moyes while they keep Pochetino and clone Kane. Eventually, the lack of money will catch up and Pochetino + both Kanes will join Madrid, while United sacks Moyes again.
Banter aside (and yes, I always try to banter with Glaston cause he is a bit annoying; you'll see that for yourself if you continue here), all I was saying is something that you can say as neutral. Just replace United with Real Madrid and Spurs with Atletico and it is the same result. Or with Juventus and Roma. Or with Bayern and Dortmund.
The system is rigged. It is and has been so since the nineties. Forget the talks that only decisions matter, it isn't so. If it was that way, Real would have been in Spanish fifth decision.
And yes, it is nice that there are other things in football bar trophies. Otherwise, we would have just 10 or so clubs in European top leagues. Which would be sad. But looking from a cynical point of view, things are this way. You win trophies if you're rich. If not, the starts need to be aligned that when you punch above your weights, the richer teams are in crisis. Which happens not very often.
Last edited:
I think you have taken his posts as a personal attack on Spurs. It's only a discussion about whether a small club can sustain this kind of success over a long period of time when facing behemoth clubs like United
All this genuine fan nonsense and frustration over spurs has come out of nowhere from you
Is there a reason that Spurs don't seem to be increasing their commercial revenue? Pretty awful growth compared to the rest. It's went from a £40m gap in 2009 to £140m in 2014.
Some of yous really take talking about football clubs really personally.
I certainly don't think he's slow. But you're entitled to your opinion.
I'm not a Spurs fan btw.
The full-backs provide the width and penetration. It's a pretty common tactic. Atlético rely heavily on their full-backs also.
Because they don't have many fans. City's obviously is inflated, the others are directly linked with the number of fans and the success of the club.Is there a reason that Spurs don't seem to be increasing their commercial revenue? Pretty awful growth compared to the rest. It's went from a £40m gap in 2009 to £140m in 2014.
Liverpool having 2.5 the commercial income that Spurs have, despite that Spurs this season will finish 4 times ahead of them in the last 5 years, just shows what I am talking about.
There is only a type of ticket for a club to become a giant club. And that is by getting a sugar daddy. All the other things are just a footnote and can change things only locally (for a small number of years).
Of course, but their personnel isn't even close to Atletico's. If they can pull it off again next season then good for them, but I'd add a some pace in wide areas to offer a different dimension.
There are a number of areas we need to improve, in an ideal world this Summef we would strengthen with another high quality striker, if he could also play wide it would be a big advantage, if he can't we will also need a wide player and another CM player.
Bentaleb will likely go, along with Yedlin, Carroll and maybe even N'Jie.
We need more quality in depth but not a bigger squad, 2 or 3 in plus CCV and Dominic Ball returning and maybe Alex Pritchard as well.
I think we will try to sign Wanyama/Witsel, Batshuayi/ Berahino and one more.
Really?
Griezmann = Kane
Koke = Eriksen
Carrasco = Lamela
Juanfran = Walker
Oliver < Ali
Gabi < Dembélé
Godín > Alderweireld
Luís > Rose
Giménez < Vertonghen (For now)
Oblak < Lloris
Dier = Saúl
Torres > Njie
Atlético have more depth in the striking department, but both are similar in terms of overall quality.
Last edited:
Alderweireld better than Godin!?! Rose over Luis seems nuts too. And the 'for now' disclaimer for Vertongen when Gimenez is like 8 years younger and likely to be far better in couple of years
Sorry, that was a typo. Godín is better. But he does need a special setup to play the way he does. He won't be the same player under a different manager. Except maybe at Leicester. Haha.
Godin is one of the best CBs in world football. I like Alderweireld but he is no way better than Godin.
You have to be a Spurs fan.Not a big difference? Try £217m net spend difference over the last 5 seasons: http://www.transferleague.co.uk/pre...tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons.
Your problem is that you look backwards and assume nothing will change from here on. But things have already changed and are continuing to change: Liverpool have been out of the top 4 - bar one season - for a long while now. Chelsea have dropped out twice in the last 5 seasons. Man. Utd will probably be out this season, which will make it a non-top-four finish in 2 out of the last 3 seasons. And as I've said before, within 2 years Spurs will be in the top 10 globally for income, and that's before our new stadium complex opens. Times are changing, but stick with your comforting mantra if you wish.
PS. Virtually every club sells star players from time to time - for every Bale, Modric and Berbatov there is, from Man. Utd, a Beckham, Ronaldo and De Gea (nearly last summer, and probably this summer).
Without sounding condescending to Spurs, Leicester winning the title is like Blackburn/Villareal/Deportivo winning the title. It'll be difficult for them to sustain this going forward. I'd love to be proven wrong.
Spurs winning in the near future would be like Valencia winning the title. It's a superlative achievement and they will continue to be up and about near the 4th place, but the Reals and Barcelonas will always come back to take the glory.
I like Spurs, even after knowing Glastonspur and I wish them well.
Spurs winning in the near future would be like Valencia winning the title. It's a superlative achievement and they will continue to be up and about near the 4th place, but the Reals and Barcelonas will always come back to take the glory.
I like Spurs, even after knowing Glastonspur and I wish them well.
Did I just read that Felipe Luis is a worse player than Danny Rose?
I've pointed to the trends in a previous post - I suggest you go back and read it.
You've completely made up a trend. I read your post and it's bullshit.
In your trend post, you said 3 years for Man Utd and 6 years for Spurs, just to make the outcome favorable to Spurs. Shouldn't you at least consider the same timespan for a trend?
Let's trend it by considering using 6 and 3 years for Spurs and United then. Go on?
We have enough fans to fill the 61k stadium when it opens. And if you don't think that the new stadium complex will vastly increase Spurs commercial income then either you're living in cloud cuckoo land or you simply haven't looked at what the complex involves and will be hosting.
This is pretty much insane. I would go with:
Griezmann > Kane
Koke > Eriksen
Carrasco = Lamela
Juanfran > Walker
Oliver = Ali
Gabi > Dembele
Godin > Alderweireld *
Luis > Rose
Gimenez > Vertonghen
Oblak < Lloris
Dier = Saul
Torres > Njie
Godin has been the best CB in the world for the last 3 seasons. He is far far better than Alder (whom I labelled as the best CB in EPL by a country mile a week ago, only to be attacked by a lot of United fans claiming that Smalling is better), and Gimenez is better than Alder too. In fact, that partnership (and Atletico's complete defense) is by far the best defense in the world. There is a reason why Atletico sold Alder in the first place.
Also, Spurs as good as Atletico. Do you realize that you are 7 points below Leicester while they have the same points as Barca and are ahead of Real. You pissed yourself before the BVB match started, while they eliminated Barca.
Whom do you support? You know that Caf accepts fans of other teams, so no reasons to pretend like that Chelsea fan who lied for two years here. In fact, if you get found out to have lied, you might be banned for that.
Last edited:
Commercial deal is quite also based on the fans from outside the state. You won't be making United numbers (or half of it) even if your stadium capacity gets increased to 100k and you fill it completely.
You will grow commercially, but not by much. On short term, the stadium will actually harm you (just ask your neighbors). Obviously on the long term it will help you, but not by 200m or so which is what you need to get United-like numbers.
Guys it was a typo, he does not believe alderweireld to be better than Godin.
Fergie fall out with Beckham, and we still have De Gea. Ronaldo is essentially the only case.
And yes, Real historically was able to sign, or at least unsettle United players. A tough world but we have to live with it. When a club is richer and has a bigger reputation, that is what happens.
This is pretty much spot on. Spurs will be there but more as a team who consistently challenges for fourth with maybe at times challenging for the title.
Leicester will vanish next season.
United, Chelsea and City will always be there. Well, until the system doesn't change.
Sorry there lads, copied and pasted my < and > wrongly.
I've edited it now.
I've edited it now.
These are all significant trend changes compared to the preceding comparable time period for each club, none of them invented "bullshit", just plain facts:
* Chelski have finished out of the top 4 twice in the last 5 seasons. Try comparing to the 5 seasons before that.
* Man. Utd will likely make it 2 seasons out of 3 outside of the top 4. (OK, this is not yet a fact). Try comparing to the 3 seasons before that.
* Spurs have finished in the top 4 three times in the last 6 years. Try comparing to the 6 seasons before that.
* Liverpool have been out of the top 4 for a long time bar one season. Try comparing to the Prem era before that.
It's not just about Spurs and United. The landscape has been shifting significantly and is continuing to shift. It's obvious from the facts given above.
Apart from what everybody already mentioned Njie who has like 5 goals in his pro career better than Torres? Sure Torres is shot but that seems nuts.
Juanfran > Walker also seems more apt rather than the other way round.
United
15/16 - 59 points (win last 4 - 71)
14/15 - 70 points 4th
13/14 - 64 points 7th
12/13 - 89 points 1st
11/12 - 89 points 2nd
10/11 - 80 points 1st
09/10 - 85 points 2nd
08/09 - 90 points 1st
Spurs
15/16 - 69 points (win last 3 - 78)
14/15 - 64 points 5th
13/14 - 69 points 6th
12/13 - 72 points 5th
11/12 - 69 points 4th
10/11 - 62 points 5th
09/10 - 51 points 8th
08/09 - 46 points 11th
If it ends up being a gap of less than 10 points at the end of the season when Spurs have had their best season ever and us with the disaster of LVG then I think it's a very small gap which will be overturned next year with the arrival of Mourinho.
15/16 - 59 points (win last 4 - 71)
14/15 - 70 points 4th
13/14 - 64 points 7th
12/13 - 89 points 1st
11/12 - 89 points 2nd
10/11 - 80 points 1st
09/10 - 85 points 2nd
08/09 - 90 points 1st
Spurs
15/16 - 69 points (win last 3 - 78)
14/15 - 64 points 5th
13/14 - 69 points 6th
12/13 - 72 points 5th
11/12 - 69 points 4th
10/11 - 62 points 5th
09/10 - 51 points 8th
08/09 - 46 points 11th
If it ends up being a gap of less than 10 points at the end of the season when Spurs have had their best season ever and us with the disaster of LVG then I think it's a very small gap which will be overturned next year with the arrival of Mourinho.
I've edited mine. My > and < were the opposite of what they should be.
Kane is equal to Griezmann. If his name was Kanedinho, there would be no discussion.
Eriksen and Koke are both sides' most creative outlet. Koke is better at the defensive side of the game, Eriksen is better technically. Even overall.
Gabi is a great leader and hard worker, but a water carrier who raises his game for the big occasion. An in form Dembélé is better.
Ali is streets ahead of Oliver who is nothing more than untapped potential at the moment. Different roles though.
Godín is better than Alderweireld, yes. But Giménez, who I think could become the best centre back in the world, is not better than Vertonghen overall at present.
Luís in an Atlético shirt is pretty much Carlos.
Oblak is another outstanding young goalkeeper they've found. But Lloris edges him for now.
Oh, and I am a United fan. I just don't have my head buried up my arse.
Apart from what everybody already mentioned Njie who has like 5 goals in his pro career better than Torres? Sure Torres is shot but that seems nuts.
Juanfran > Walker also seems more apt rather than the other way round.
2 posts up and edited already anyway.
Pretty much this.
However I'd have Oblak and Lloris reversed, especially when we compare them in the air and currently Oblak the season he's having.
Atletico sold Alder to accommodate Gimenez.
I don't see either of Spurs CB's budging that Atletico duo. Just to remind you Atletico have conceded just 16 goals in La Liga this season and 5 in CL(two of them when they were a man down against Barca).
I also don't think there is a team in the world that would take Kane over Griezmann if both were available and at the same price..
Last edited: