Mass shooting at Gay night club in Orlando

I would guess part of the problem now is that these guys can operate almost entirely as 'lone wolves' with little or no actual ties to actual IS and then declare their 'allegiance' right before they do what they're going to do.... it's not as if IS won't claim them once they do act.

An attack like this doesn't need complex planning, input or financial support - just a willing nutjob.
 
JustAFan said:
I don't think being interviewed by law enforcement becomes part of a persons criminal record.
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That is correct. It begs the question of should something be put on file if you are questioned for certain things though.

This might run into a constitutionality conflict, however.
 
Trump has just said................

"Obama should step down because he didn't say Radical Islamic Terrorism" during his speech earlier.

WHAT THE FECK?

Hannity and O'Reilly and Cruz and Rubio are always banging on about this, as if saying those words will make it all stop. They really are all batshit insane. :mad::mad::mad: Make me so angry, how someone can just come out with such bollocks and have no consequences for it all. The man just speaks pure shit, utter hatred and absolute uninformed nonsense. When Obama was addressing the nation (world) hardly any of the facts were actually available, and he made it perfectly clear that people should be careful when making assumptions about the reasons for the mass shooting.

Obviously ISIS will jump on It and claim responsibility because it's an attack, by a Muslim, on American soil. It's a no brainer that they will say they were involved regardless of if they were or not. They have nothing to lose by saying so, and absolutely everything to gain (in their twisted minds)

Trump is just such an annoying fecking cnut. It's stopped being funny ages ago, but using a situation like this to gain votes is one thing, to use it against one of the best American Presidents in modern times is just repulsive. Yet again he's banging on about banning Muslims again now.

Can't he see his hatred and attitude will bring more death and destruction? Makes me so angry! Ignorant feckwit!
 
JustAFan said:
I don't think being interviewed by law enforcement becomes part of a persons criminal record.
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But it is obviously on a record somewhere - hence about 12 hours later we know he was interviewed. There could at the very least be further investigation which may stop him walking in somewhere and buying 2 assault rifles and a pistol with no questions asked.

It's pointless debating anyway, even the suggestion of an FBI background check impacting on someones 'right' to own a gun would probably spark civil war in 'merica.
 
Slide3.jpg

There's pretty indisputable proof that gun control works, I don't know why it's even a debate.
 
JustAFan said:
I don't think being interviewed by law enforcement becomes part of a persons criminal record.

I know people who have been questioned by the cops before including one coworker who got interviewed by the FBI as a person of interest in a child kidnapping case (he did not do it). I don't think that shows up against them if someone does a background check.
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A mate got interviewed over the Rachel Nickell murder cos he was walking his dog on Wimbledon Common at the time.
 
Eyepopper said:
But it is obviously on a record somewhere - hence about 12 hours later we know he was interviewed. There could at the very least be further investigation which may stop him walking in somewhere and buying 2 assault rifles and a pistol with no questions asked.

It's pointless debating anyway, even the suggestion of an FBI background check impacting on someones 'right' to own a gun would probably spark civil war in 'merica.
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Yeah the FBI keeps a record of people they interview, that is not the same as it being part of their record the public has access to.
 
Wolverine said:
Incidentally, Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the largest Islamic civil liberties group in the States has condemned the attack and urged Muslims to donate blood as have the local mosques/other groups.

Furthermore, the mayor of my home city was among 5 out of the 8 Muslim MPs who voted to legalise same sex marriage. Attitudes towards homosexuality in general in the western world, among muslims is variable in my opinion. Among the more conservative minded ones it would be more or less no more hostile towards homosexuality than say the evangelicals.

Such a senseless tragedy i can't even imagine what the families must be going through.
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Although polling is difficult a quick google show that the sign aren't that great -

UK poll on Muslims view on Homosexuality - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...se-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

US poll on Christian views on Homosexulity - http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-groups-grow-more-accepting-of-homosexuality/
 
Organic Potatoes said:
The one thing that could put Trump in office would be a terrorist attack. Feck.
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If ISIS were actually involved (which I doubt) it's almost certainly a strategic move. It will drive support to Trump, and Florida is marginally Clinton as far as I know.

Not sure how big a role Florida plays in the overall election.

It will certainly help Trump though, which I'd imagine is exactly what IS would want.
 
Eyepopper said:
If ISIS were actually involved (which I doubt) it's almost certainly a strategic move. It will drive support to Trump, and Florida is marginally Clinton as far as I know.

Not sure how big a role Florida plays in the overall election.

It will certainly help Trump though, which I'd imagine is exactly what IS would want.
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Diesn't Florida play a fairly significant role? Sure there was a hoohah about the count there an election or two back.
 
horsechoker said:
No rainbow flags on people's avatars on facebook, people must not care.
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Eyepopper said:
Yep, struck me earlier that there is a serious lack of 'pray for .....'

I guess most people are watching the footy.
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Rightly or wrongly, the shock of a mass shooting in America isn't great anymore and maybe it doesn't stir up the same emotions as an attack in a European country might.
 
Eyepopper said:
If ISIS were actually involved (which I doubt) it's almost certainly a strategic move. It will drive support to Trump, and Florida is marginally Clinton as far as I know.

Not sure how big a role Florida plays in the overall election.

It will certainly help Trump though, which I'd imagine is exactly what IS would want.
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IS involvement is not relevant. It's the perception of a terrorist attack by the public.

And Florida is massively important in the general election, along with Ohio.
 
JustAFan said:
Yeah the FBI keeps a record of people they interview, that is not the same as it being part of their record the public has access to.
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Yeah but we're talking about legislation that isn't there at the moment. I'm not sure how background checks work or are run in the states but you'd imagine when it comes to buying semi auto assault rifles and handguns - particularly together- a system could be designed whereby if someone has been questioned in connection with extremism (or something similarly serious), that questions are at least asked.

I'm not suggesting they could have stopped the guy with the current state of affairs, simply highlighting that something could be put in place, if there was an appetite to carry out adequate background checks - which there isn't.
 
Jippy said:
Diesn't Florida play a fairly significant role? Sure there was a hoohah about the count there an election or two back.
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Florida is tied for 3rd most electoral college votes with New York at 29. Only Texas and California are more important.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
IS involvement is not relevant. It's the perception of a terrorist attack by the public.
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Yep, which is why IS have been so quick to claim credit. I doubt they were involved in planning or supporting it directly though.

But your right, all the public will see will be 'muslim, ISIS'.

And Florida is massively important in the general election, along with Ohio.
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Thought so, couldn't be arsed to check.
 
langster said:
Watch that 30 second clip I just posted in a tweet above. That says it all mate.
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Scary how much power the lobbyists have isn't it?

We have (or possibly had, not sure if the case has been heard) the tobacco trade trying to bring our government to European courts to stop them introducing plain packaging on cigarettes.

Big business trumps democracy (excuse the pun).
 
RexHamilton said:
Rightly or wrongly, the shock of a mass shooting in America isn't great anymore and maybe it doesn't stir up the same emotions as an attack in a European country might.
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Hmmmmm..... maybe, maybe.
 
Eyepopper said:
Scary how much power the lobbyists have isn't it?

We have (or possibly had, not sure if the case has been heard) the tobacco trade trying to bring our government to European courts to stop them introducing plain packaging on cigarettes.

Big business trumps democracy (excuse the pun).
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The "land of the free" is a plutocracy for sure.
 
langster said:
Trump has just said................

"Obama should step down because he didn't say Radical Islamic Terrorism" during his speech earlier.

WHAT THE FECK?
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Time to declare war again. War on Drugs. War on Terror. War on Religion next

Edit: Sorry, a religion
 
Eyepopper said:
But it is obviously on a record somewhere - hence about 12 hours later we know he was interviewed. There could at the very least be further investigation which may stop him walking in somewhere and buying 2 assault rifles and a pistol with no questions asked.

It's pointless debating anyway, even the suggestion of an FBI background check impacting on someones 'right' to own a gun would probably spark civil war in 'merica.
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I doubt it would spark civil war. in hind site it is obvious this guy was a threat, but in reality it seems that when questioned by the FBI no red flags were raised. As more info comes out we may find this not to be the case, for now we work with what we know.

he passed three interviews with the FBI no reason to suspect he could not have passed a fourth.
 
RexHamilton said:
Rightly or wrongly, the shock of a mass shooting in America isn't great anymore and maybe it doesn't stir up the same emotions as an attack in a European country might.
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True but I would have thought this attacking being one of the biggest and an attack on homosexuals might have prompted the same reaction. Then again, it doesn't matter whether people pray or not.
 
Eyepopper said:
Scary how much power the lobbyists have isn't it?

We have (or possibly had, not sure if the case has been heard) the tobacco trade trying to bring our government to European courts to stop them introducing plain packaging on cigarettes.

Big business trumps democracy (excuse the pun).
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It's disgusting, it's plainly costing peoples lives. We can have this argument about gun control all day long. As I and many other have said, the American public are all for gun control, some polls say as many as 70% are for complete reform of gun control laws, yet the President has just said he can't stop people like the guy today buying guns all because of the NRA! And Trump has the fecking nerve to attack Obama over it. The worst part about it is, many people will believe Trump and slate Obama for it. It just makes me sick, and extremely sad. I'm seriously worried about Trump, he's exceedingly dangerous because he is so fecking thick. He will play right in to not only ISIS hands, but also Russia's and China's too.

Events like today really wont help at all.
 
langster said:
It's disgusting, it's plainly costing peoples lives. We can have this argument about gun control all day long. As I and many other have said, the American public are all for gun control, some polls say as many as 70% are for complete reform of gun control laws, yet the President has just said he can't stop people like the guy today buying guns all because of the NRA! And Trump has the fecking nerve to attack Obama over it. The worst part about it is, many people will believe Trump and slate Obama for it. It just makes me sick, and extremely sad. I'm seriously worried about Trump, he's exceedingly dangerous because he is so fecking thick. He will play right in to not only ISIS hands, but also Russia's and China's too.

Events like today really wont help at all.
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Not to mention the fact that Trump went on record to say that he could "stroll down Times Square shooting people and not lose votes".
 
JustAFan said:
As a side question was I the only one who when they first heard about this thought it would turn out to be a white right winger?
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No, I thought that too. Although as soon as I heard otherwise, I pretty much predicted the chain of events. Unfortunately it's all too obvious and people like Trump and co are just so damn transparent. :(
 
JustAFan said:
I doubt it would spark civil war.
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It won't because the NRA will never let it happen.

he passed three interviews with the FBI no reason to suspect he could not have passed a fourth.
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I'm not even saying being interviewed should stop you being able to own a gun, but it could, and should, at least delay you in getting them or make it slightly more difficult - particularly if you've been interviewed in relation to suspected terrorist sympathies - maybe another interview about why you want 2 assault rifles and a handgun, but thats where we get into owning a gun being a 'right' in America and thats where the civil war suggestion comes in. I'm obviously being slightly facetious, but there are elements in the US that will go batshit at even the suggestion of the federal govt restricting access to guns. It's all part of the insane attitude when it comes to gun ownership.
 
langster said:
It's disgusting, it's plainly costing peoples lives. We can have this argument about gun control all day long. As I and many other have said, the American public are all for gun control, some polls say as many as 70% are for complete reform of gun control laws, yet the President has just said he can't stop people like the guy today buying guns all because of the NRA! And Trump has the fecking nerve to attack Obama over it. The worst part about it is, many people will believe Trump and slate Obama for it. It just makes me sick, and extremely sad. I'm seriously worried about Trump, he's exceedingly dangerous because he is so fecking thick. He will play right in to not only ISIS hands, but also Russia's and China's too.

Events like today really wont help at all.
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Trumps solution is to ban muslims, not guns. Thats how fecked up the situation is.
 
Eyepopper said:
It won't because the NRA will never let it happen.

I'm not even saying being interviewed should stop you being able to own a gun, but it could, and should, at least delay you in getting them or make it slightly more difficult - particularly if you've been interviewed in relation to suspected terrorist sympathies - maybe another interview about why you want 2 assault rifles and a handgun, but thats where we get into owning a gun being a 'right' in America and thats where the civil war suggestion comes in. I'm obviously being slightly facetious, but there are elements in the US that will go batshit at even the suggestion of the federal govt restricting access to guns. It's all part of the insane attitude when it comes to gun ownership.
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At the VERY MINIMUM, it should mean at the most you could apply for is a handgun for home protection. Personally, I would think even that would be too much, but even that restriction would have stopped events like today. You have to ask yourself, why the feck someone who is interesting the FBI would want an assault rifle? It's beyond lunacy.
 
Eyepopper said:
Trumps solution is the ban muslims, not guns. Thats how fecked up the situation is.
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Yup, and events like today will only fuel the fire he has started and get more people on his side. It's particularly frustrating because the last two weeks have been a fecking nightmare for him, now he will feed off this like a vulture, he will pick the carcass clean with absolutely no respect or thought for the people or families involved. They deserve better.
 
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