Mass shooting at Gay night club in Orlando

[FlawlessThaw]

He's an apologist twat who can't go five seconds without trying to dodge a question on the ideological hatred espoused by Islam because it offends his back patting feel good sensibilities.

Shame he doesn't go round defending guns and asking the real question of why there isn't any dialogue on bombs.

Looking back on that interview, I have to say that Sky News Presenter was extremely obnoxious. The attack was clearly homophobic, to simply move away from that is harsh, can understand why Jones was upset.

 

[RedDevil@84]

ISIS is now claiming the attack that it was their caliphate soldier blah blah.
They waited 48 hrs or so and then thought "Hell!! Let us take credit for a lunatic's action, because it is big number and will help other radicals to feel proud"

 

[Snowjoe]

That was a great thread.

Say what you will about some of those UR defectee's but they were alright.

Reading through that again was epic

Needs some threadmarks!

 

[Carolina Red]

ISIS is now claiming the attack that it was their caliphate soldier blah blah.
They waited 48 hrs or so and then thought "Hell!! Let us take credit for a lunatic's action, because it is big number and will help other radicals to feel proud"

It does connect to them though. They put out a call for acts of terror to be committed in their name in the US during Ramadan, which started last week.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/us/orlando-shooting-isis-ramadan-attacks/index.html

 

[phelans shorts]

ISIS is now claiming the attack that it was their caliphate soldier blah blah.
They waited 48 hrs or so and then thought "Hell!! Let us take credit for a lunatic's action, because it is big number and will help other radicals to feel proud"

Yeah, they're bound to claim any attack that gets them notoriety and will cause panic. Reminds me of Al Qaeda claiming the Madrid bombings.

 

[::sonny::]

ISIS is now claiming the attack that it was their caliphate soldier blah blah.
They waited 48 hrs or so and then thought "Hell!! Let us take credit for a lunatic's action, because it is big number and will help other radicals to feel proud"

Agreed

 

[villain]

It does connect to them though. They put out a call for acts of terror to be committed in their name in the US during Ramadan, which started last week.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/us/orlando-shooting-isis-ramadan-attacks/index.html

They call for acts of terror to be committed in their name at basically all times, even against Muslims.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I've just read what Owen Jones did. Why exactly was anyone complaining about that?

 

[Carolina Red]

They call for acts of terror to be committed in their name at basically all times, even against Muslims.

Yes, but this was a bit specific, and then it happened.

I'm not saying they coordinated it, but I do see a connection between the recent call and then this attack.

 

[villain]

Yes, but this was a bit specific, and then it happened.

I'm not saying they coordinated it, but I do see a connection between the recent call and then this attack.

At the same time, they've called for other attacks to happen, threatened other cities, and nothing has happened either.

This just sounds like throwing so much at the wall, and some of it eventually sticking. I could be wrong however, as more details come out in the next few days/weeks.

 

[sun_tzu]

Yes, but this was a bit specific, and then it happened.

I'm not saying they coordinated it, but I do see a connection between the recent call and then this attack.

And thy guy apparently called 911 pledging allegiance to ISIS as well

Gay pride in London in a couple of weeks - the Euros going on, Tour De France soon, all the major music festivals of the summer - I hope this tragic event is isolated but the next few weeks certainly present further targets.

No idea what any long term solution is - no doubt trump will have a (bad) idea or two though

 

[DJ Jeff]

Shame he doesn't go round defending guns and asking the real question of why there isn't any dialogue on bombs.

Looking back on that interview, I have to say that Sky News Presenter was extremely obnoxious. The attack was clearly homophobic, to simply move away from that is harsh, can understand why Jones was upset.

I'm not defending guns, I'm saying there's far more to be said on this incident than tutting about gun control and ignoring the other massive factors because they hurt your feelings.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I'm not defending guns, I'm saying there's far more to be said on this incident than tutting about gun control and ignoring the other massive factors because they hurt your feelings.

Such as homophobia, which was exactly Owen Jones' point.

 

[DJ Jeff]

Such as homophobia, which was exactly Owen Jones' point.

Yes, homophobia as dictated by what, which he completely failed to mention? He has previous form for completely dodging the homophobia within conservative Islam, have a look at his YouTube. He has no right to get uppity about people not addressing the real issue and root cause when he himself constantly does the same.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Yes, homophobia as dictated by what, which he completely failed to mention? He has previous form for completely dodging the homophobia within conservative Islam, have a look at his YouTube. He has no right to get uppity about people not addressing the real issue and root cause when he himself constantly does the same.

Its quite an easy answer this: it was dictated by Homophobia.

 

[DJ Jeff]

Its quite an easy answer this: it was dictated by Homophobia.

It was dictated by the radical Islam the guy subscribed to.

 

[Fearless]

I'm not defending guns, I'm saying there's far more to be said on this incident than tutting about gun control and ignoring the other massive factors because they hurt your feelings.

Exactly. Everyone's pussyfooting around the Islamic factor as per usual and if somebody dares mention it they get castigated for being a NRA loving racist and a Donald Trump supporter.

Ridiculous.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

As has been put many times, you don't have to be Muslim to be homophobic. Sure this bloke's homophobia probably stems from it and the fact that ISIS and Islamic fundamentalism has been mentioned many times points towards, but I suspect given the behaviour of this guy in the past he would have been a bigot regardless.

 

[Smores]

I've just read what Owen Jones did. Why exactly was anyone complaining about that?

Honestly can't understand how anyone could side with Sky there. They were purposefully trying to remove the homophobic nature of the attack either because they think it has wider appeal as a general Islamic terrorist attack or because gay issues don't fit in with their image.

I've been really suprised with the coverage this story has got across the media.

 

[NinjaFletch]

It was dictated by the radical Islam the guy subscribed to.

I don't see what your issue is here, he shot up a gay nightclub because he hates gay people. That act is inherently, and foremost, homophobic in exactly the same way that shooting up a synagogue full of Jewish people or a mosque full of Muslim people is anti-semitic and islamophobic respectively.

Was that an attitude that was influenced by the radical aspects of the religion? Sure. But I assume you've actually watched the video and seen the people he was arguing with and why he got so angry? Because what riled up Owen Jones wasn't that people were saying that this attack was committed by a radical Islamist, but because they were arguing it wasn't homophobic. How can you possibly agree with that?

 

[Rado_N]

Have the FBI commented on the religious aspect of the shooters motivation?

 

[DJ Jeff]

I don't see what your issue is here, he shot up a gay nightclub because he hates gay people. That act is inherently, and foremost, homophobic in exactly the same way that shooting up a synagogue full of Jewish people or a mosque full of Muslim people is anti-semitic and islamophobic respectively.

Was that an attitude that was influenced by the radical aspects of the religion? Sure. But I assume you've actually watched the video and seen the people he was arguing with and why he got so angry? Because what riled up Owen Jones wasn't that people were saying that this attack was committed by a radical Islamist, but because they were arguing it wasn't homophobic. How can you possibly agree with that?

I'm not agreeing with that. Of course it's homophobic. I'm saying Owen Jones has past form, constantly, for ignoring the homophobia inherent in Islam. And he'd shy away from that were it brought up.

 

[adexkola]

Have the FBI commented on the religious aspect of the shooters motivation?

As of this morning, no. Investigation still ongoing.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I'm not agreeing with that. Of course it's homophobic. I'm saying Owen Jones has past form, constantly, for ignoring the homophobia inherent in Islam. And he'd shy away from that were it brought up.

Which, even if true, is - of course - utterly irrelevant to the reasons why he was angry with Sky News.

 

[Rado_N]

As of this morning, no. Investigation still ongoing.

I didn't think so, ta.

 

[DJ Jeff]

Which, even if true, is - of course - utterly irrelevant to the reasons why he was angry with Sky News.

He's angry with them for not accepting the motivations of the attack and trying to shy away from them. He himself shies away when the motivations of most Islamic terrorism has been shown to him. It's not wrong to complain about what Sky were doing at all, but it's hypocritical to do so as a person who has form for doing the very same thing.

 

[Mal donaghy]

You like to come across as the pinnacle of intellect but often let it down with crass and stupid posts like this. This thread has been a disgrace from the start, the talk being directed away from the people who actually died in this atrocity.

I didn't find your joke particularly funny if you can tell and had it been made by anyone else who wasn't in the Caf clique I'm sure they'd have been thread banned or worse.

Well said that man.

 

[mu77]

It was dictated by the radical Islam the guy subscribed to.

this

Have the FBI commented on the religious aspect of the shooters motivation?

they will after they get info on him , he was on a watch list. regardless - on a watch list still got a legal gun. How?

 

[Rado_N]

they will after they get info on him , he was on a watch list. regardless - on a watch list still got a legal gun. How?

The NRA.

 

[Nighteyes]

Exactly. Everyone's pussyfooting around the Islamic factor as per usual and if somebody dares mention it they get castigated for being a NRA loving racist and a Donald Trump supporter.

Ridiculous.

Spot on.

You should add Christianity as well and any other religion that subscribes to this bs. They seem to inspire a relatively lesser number of loons than Islam but you have the Pope himself spreading bigoted garbage.

 

[PedroMendez]

radical islam is homophobic. Islam in general tends to be homophobic. That must be the worst kept history in the world.

 

[kps88]

they will after they get info on him , he was on a watch list. regardless - on a watch list still got a legal gun. How?

Not sure if this has already been covered but Obama gave a talk just 9 days ago when he said the FBI, monitoring known ISIS sympathisers, are powerless to stop them from walking into a shop and buying guns.

 

[Seveneric]

Not to sound like a twat but is this not getting a bit hackneyed now, beaming flags onto the London Eye, Brandenburg or wherever? It seems like people focus more on the aesthetics than the meaning. Very Facebook-esque.

It all seems so pointless, because you know what needs to be done to stop stuff like this from happening again won't be done. Flags and lighting up buildings is nice and all, but it feels useless knowing in a week or so, this could happen again.

 

[NinjaFletch]

It all seems so pointless, because you know what needs to be done to stop stuff like this from happening again won't be done. Flags and lighting up buildings is nice and all, but it feels useless knowing in a week or so, this could happen again.

Go on...

 

[Man of Leisure]

Not sure if this has already been covered but Obama gave a talk just 9 days ago when he said the FBI, monitoring known ISIS sympathisers, are powerless to stop them from walking into a shop and buying guns.

Someone did provide a link to that earlier. Sadly, it was quite prophetic.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

And getting worse..

One day mother nature will unleash her fury on us all.

I would welcome a zombie apocalypse with open arms.

 

[DOTA]

Homophobia is a problem in Islam, it is a problem in wider America and it's a problem globally. All three of these things are relevant to the debate. I'm personally concerned there is more interest in talking about the first one than the others - because it ties in to a general growing concern that Islamic values and Western values are at odds and it's easier to look at one specific element than problems in wider society.

As a couple of others said in this thread, when I first heard about the attack I was expecting the perpetrator to be white (and indeed not a Muslim). You can say 'you don't need to be a Muslim to do this but it helps' but you need to focus on the 'don't need to be' part as well as the 'but it helps' bit if you're to address the whole picture.

 

[Smores]

radical islam is homophobic. Islam in general tends to be homophobic. That must be the worst kept history in the world.

Is there a mainstream religion that isn't homophobic? I think it's just accepted that those of very strong faith tend to be homophobic, the majority realise it's outdated.

My missus had an unhinged employee recently going on about a sodomite conspiracy and he didn't know what to do about it. She's planning to ring the authorities once she's passed it through work but it's quite scary these unhinged people exist, makes me glad they don't have ready access to weapons here.

 

[mu77]

The NRA.

Not sure if this has already been covered but Obama gave a talk just 9 days ago when he said the FBI, monitoring known ISIS sympathisers, are powerless to stop them from walking into a shop and buying guns.

republican leadership really , they voted a piece of legislation down. blood covered hands.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This is only the beginning of larger scale mass shootings from radical Islamists in America. All those high powered weapons that are out there makes it too easy.