Cristiano Ronaldo - Performances (wums will be thread banned)

[Cantona'sCollar]

Some of the posts in this thread, seriously. FFS someone on page 105 said that Neymar is above him in the list of this generation's players.

He was bad against Iceland and missed a penalty today, but come on. Whether you like him or not, you are completely clueless and should just stop watching sport altogether if you don't think Cristiano Ronaldo is one of the greatest players in history. Some people think that Messi being better can be used as a valid criticism of him - by that logic, there is around 3 players (maximum) in history that were actually good at football.

 

[jungledrums]

But when Messi is putting up similar numbers and doing much more than just goal hanging for most of his matches is Ronaldo not being over rated?

Ronaldo is being called one of the greatest when he simply isn't due to his goalscoring and non existent team play.

Also if Iniesta was to be more selfish and try and score more his team probably wouldn't be as good due to Iniesta not being able to distribute the ball better and get others into better positions?

It's almost laughable how every comment you make contradicts your criticisms of Ronaldo. Not to mention you entirely fail to mention Ronaldo's astonishing earlier years. At least be consistent: if you wish to criticise Ronaldo for ONE aspect of his game, then do the same with Iniesta, for the sake of this debate. Even in this season just past, you don't mention or include Ronaldo's assist tally... Unfortunately, the way Ronaldo has transformed himself as a player has, for some bizarre reason, detracted from his status. He's a legend of the game, the greatest goal scorer of all time, and deservedly on the discussion of the games greats. Messi is above him, but Messi is above everyone. I honestly believe that no player has reached the consistent heights of Messi and Ronaldo. 8+ years of consistent brilliance, at a level so far beyond the rest of their era.

 

[shamans]

I have to say, I find this thread to have gotten a bit ridiculous. Every time Ronaldo has a bad game he is put below the likes of Suarez, Neymar and/or Iniesta. I know it is difficult to take my opinion seriously since I prefer Ronaldo over Messi but if you have seen Ronaldo and think he is not comfortably at least the second best player in the world right now, then I am confused!

 

[129104946]

I have to say, I find this thread to have gotten a bit ridiculous. Every time Ronaldo has a bad game he is put below the likes of Suarez, Neymar and/or Iniesta. I know it is difficult to take my opinion seriously since I prefer Ronaldo over Messi but if you have seen Ronaldo and think he is not comfortably at least the second best player in the world right now, then I am confused!

I would honestly have Suarez ahead of Ronaldo. Not sure what Ronaldo adds that Neymar doesn't and Neymar adds a lot more.

 

[finneh]

I knew this was the impression you were under, hence remembering it with tinted glasses. From what I've read on here, it seems widely acknowledged 06/07 was his last season as that exciting player.

Although youtube highlights from any season can make it look like he was still that player.



This is from 11/12.

He's been that exciting player in bursts throughout his career; pick any season and you'll see a burst of what I class as "Ronaldo". In my view though he was technically incredible the year before and in truth I wouldn't argue with anyone who said their favourite Ronaldo was 06/07.

I think though that you have to mix the magic he showed that year with the ability to single handedly win games and drag your team forward (sometimes seemingly singlehandedly). In terms of that balance I'm not sure anyone ever (certainly not whos initials aren't LM) has met his standard in 07/08 .

The entire game now has become about numbers unfortunately, which is bizarre because Messi last season in my opinion was as influential as ever (more so I'd say).

 

[shamans]

I would honestly have Suarez ahead of Ronaldo. Not sure what Ronaldo adds that Neymar doesn't and Neymar adds a lot more.

Let's for a moment assume Neymar had one of the best seasons of all time. He has had just two or three seasons in Europe compared to how many of Ronaldo now? I don't know how you could say a player is better than another without even the same sample size.

 

[129104946]

Let's for a moment assume Neymar had one of the best seasons of all time. He has had just two or three seasons in Europe compared to how many of Ronaldo now? I don't know how you could say a player is better than another without even the same sample size.

I'm not even sure what you're saying because I didn't mention Neymar at all. Also, I never said Suarez was better than Ronaldo, although at the moment I think he is. I said I would take him over Ronaldo. I think it's close and definitely debatable.

 

[NYC]

I prefer United's version of Ronaldo, moreso than Real Madrid version of Ronaldo.

AS mentioned by others, Ronnie is definitely overrated as being one of the best ever category. ROnaldo reminds me a lot of Lampard actually. Both were overrated as players because they scored so many goals in their so called position. However, rather than actually playing in their position, they would always be in the box attacking the ball, etc....

Both to me are SS, not winger or CM. I've seen so many times, ROnaldo F up counter attacks for RM it is so crazy that he has the title of best in the world... Currently, I would rate Bale over ROnnie now and a lot of folks think Madrid will suffer without Ronaldo, however, I think it will be the opposite. Ronnie needs Madrid more than Madrid need Ronnie.

 

[Spock]

Assuming form over the last five seasons, Messi and Ronaldo leave everyone else in the dust.

Form over the last two weeks? We can have that conversation.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The best player of their generation is Iniesta. End of story.

 

[Red Stone]

Ronaldo's problem is that his level seems to drop when he really, really wants something. That extra desire seems to make his otherwise pinpoint finishing a bit forced and wasteful. We saw it at United where he fluffed two penalties in the final Champions League games in '08. He went missing for huge parts of the La Decima final and this years final.

At this stage of his career, I think he only has one or two things left he desperately wants to achieve, and success with his national team is one of them. He doesn't have much time left to do it, and he knows that Portugal won't win it if he doesn't perform at his very highest level. I'm no psychologist, but his petulant attitude, the constant attempts at goal and the uncharacteristic misses all point to him not quite being able to cope with the pressure of carrying the expectations of his entire country on his shoulders, but also the desire to achieve the one thing missing from his career.

At the surface he looks like a model professional with the most determined and unbreakable mentality ever seen in a footballer, but underneath it all there's a fragile ego. We've seen it multiple times since he first came to United with the tears and acts of petulance at times. He's pushing himself harder than probably anyone in the world and is clearly desperate for success. What happens when that desperation becomes too much? It wouldn't surprise me it causes him to go over the edge a bit. He's a very instinctive player with his movement and finishing. Getting too caught up in the importance of the occasion could be just enough to mess up his otherwise flawless finishing technique. Overthinking a penalty makes him miss the thing he's usually better at hitting than anyone else in the world.

That might be the downside of being as driven and single-minded as Ronaldo is. In extremely stressful high-pressure situations, the more casual players who can free their minds always look a level above. For example, it's why Balotelli never misses a penalty. On the complete opposite end of the spectrum to Ronaldo you have Garrincha. Not an ounce of professionalism in him, but after playing a World Cup final he'd wonder when the next game of the tournament was. The occasion meant nothing to him, yet he won and was the best player in two successive World Cups.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Thread is getting too feisty and personal.

Can't we all just get along and bash Ronaldo together? Where is @Bob Loblaw?

I was out drinking tonight. Hopefully it's been settled now and the Cristiano arselickers have finally accepted he's always going to be in Messi's shadow.

No? Ok then.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I have to say, I find this thread to have gotten a bit ridiculous. Every time Ronaldo has a bad game he is put below the likes of Suarez, Neymar and/or Iniesta. I know it is difficult to take my opinion seriously since I prefer Ronaldo over Messi but if you have seen Ronaldo and think he is not comfortably at least the second best player in the world right now, then I am confused!

Some of the criticism here is ridiculous I agree. But Suarez is better than Ronaldo. He has been the best footballer in the 15/16 season, and better than Ronaldo comfortably. His overall level has been incredible.

These poor performances of Ronaldos won't matter IMO. The group is too weak and I see them winning their last game to go through. And I don't think they even need that? Isn't there a lifeline for the best 3rd placed sides? So they could make it through that.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

He loves a stat pad match, surely he'll do it at the third attempt?

How anyone thinks he's the world's best is beyond me. Anyone who thinks he's better than Messi deserves sectioning.

 

[129104946]

He loves a stat pad match, surely he'll do it at the third attempt?

How anyone thinks he's the world's best is beyond me. Anyone who thinks he's better than Messi deserves sectioning.

Like, @amolbhatia50k said, even Suarez has been better, comfortably too.

Suarez has scored more goals this season without being the focal point of his team and without taking every single free kick/penalty. More assists as well. On top of putting in the best defensive shift of any forward that I've seen in a long time.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Like, @amolbhatia50k said, even Suarez has been better, comfortably too.

He's scored more goals this season without being the focal point of his team and without taking every single free kick/penalty there is. More assists as well. On top of putting in the best defensive shift of any forward that I've seen in a long time.

Agree. I do still think Messi had the best season though if you're only talking goal about injury free periods (otherwise, Suárez nails it). I think Messi's season has been hugely underrated, again because he didn't score as many as someone else.

He makes Barcelona tick, he creates the majority of their chances, he runs their midfield, he attracts all the opposition's attention. Suárez is a great player but he's a few levels below Messi if you ignore injuries.

 

[NYC]

Crazy thing was when Messi was out, Neymar and Suarez was on fire, especially Neymar. It seems Neymar's drop in form happened when the Tax fraud case started to take light.

 

[Baxter]

Genuinely think judging players on internationals is pointless.

 

[NK86]

Crazy thing was when Messi was out, Neymar and Suarez was on fire, especially Neymar. It seems Neymar's drop in form happened when the Tax fraud case started to take light.

That simply shows Neymar hasn't got it in him, yet, to shine at an extremely high level throughout a whole season. These things people say that Neymar was brilliant for a few matches when Messi was out and then claim he is better than Ronaldo is laughable.

 

[rollingstoned1]

AS mentioned by others, Ronnie is definitely overrated as being one of the best ever category. ROnaldo reminds me a lot of Lampard actually. Both were overrated as players because they scored so many goals in their so called position. However, rather than actually playing in their position, they would always be in the box attacking the ball, etc....

This is funny because around 2007 when Ronaldo wasn't yet a goalscoring beast there was a poster on a forum I was a regular on who had a signature of Ronaldo being Lampard on turbo charge which on hindsight I find is a pretty accurate description. That combination of pace and his off the ball runs is what enables him to miss 2-3 chances and still score a brace in any given match.

 

[Speak]

Almost everyone else who scores a lot of goals in Europe is more clinical. He's not even a great finisher - he just takes loads of shots. A great goalscorer, but not a great finisher.

The reason most wouldn't have him up there is because, unlike the other legends, his best skills aren't anything to do with his feet.
His two best assets are his sprinters physique/athleticism and his heading ability. You could add movement into the mix, but his physique aids him with that too.

Many don't like him because we've all played football, and would hate to play with someone like Ronaldo's personality, even if he helped us win games.

 

[Nighteyes]

The older players are massively overrated on here. As much as I think he's a massive fecking prick, he's only behind (Quite a bit behind) Messi when it comes to GOAT.

 

[K2K]

The older players are massively overrated on here. As much as I think he's a massive fecking prick, he's only behind (Quite a bit behind) Messi when it comes to GOAT.

I'm not sure about that one,although nostalgia means older players are more revered perhaps.

However I think he is argurably the greatest goal scorer in history.Even better than Muller.

 

[Nighteyes]

I'm not sure about that one,although nostalgia means older players are more revered perhaps.

However I think he is argurably the greatest goal scorer in history.Even better than Muller.

That's the problem and hence overrated. Not to mention the fact that the current players have their game dissected and scrutinized on far greater levels leading to more criticism. Doing what Ronaldo and Messi have done over the last 10 years is almost unprecedented. Scoring and creating goals is the most important thing and these are pretty fecking good at it.

 

[VanGaalEra]

Thread title says WUM's will be banned, all I see is low post WUM's and that Pink Moon fella posting some absolute dross.

 

[Revan]

I have to say, I find this thread to have gotten a bit ridiculous. Every time Ronaldo has a bad game he is put below the likes of Suarez, Neymar and/or Iniesta. I know it is difficult to take my opinion seriously since I prefer Ronaldo over Messi but if you have seen Ronaldo and think he is not comfortably at least the second best player in the world right now, then I am confused!

Suarez is better than Ronaldo, based on the last season. In fact, I would say that he's better than Messi too.

Of course, I am not comparing their entire career, but at the moment, the cannibal is the best player in the world.

Putting Neymar ahead of Ron is ridiculous though.

 

[VivaObertan]

How can anyone say he doesn't strike the ball well? He didn't score yesterday (omg, end of world) but he forced at least three good saves from the Austrian goalkeeper.

2nd best player of all time after the Argentine.

*libelous comment removed*

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I agree that that it's nuts to put Neymar ahead of Ronaldo. Had he kept that early season phenomenal form up I'd have agreed (and many probably did expecting it to) but it didnt so he doesn't deserve such high praise. Ronaldo is the better player and the one I'd rather rely on.

As for the topic of WUMs

Thread title says WUM's will be banned, all I see is low post WUM's and that Pink Moon fella posting some absolute dross.

While I agree with your dislike for WUMs and agenda driven cheap shots, this critique has little credibility coming from a bloke who posted this after Argentina won their opening game without Messi.

This Argentina side finally looked like a team, should stick with this 11 throughout the tournament.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

How can anyone say he doesn't strike the ball well? He didn't score yesterday (omg, end of world) but he forced at least three good saves from the Austrian goalkeeper.

2nd best player of all time after the doping Argentine.

The older players are massively overrated on here. As much as I think he's a massive fecking prick, he's only behind (Quite a bit behind) Messi when it comes to GOAT.

I really don't know how you lot make such tall claims with such certainty. Hopefully you've seen loads of Pele, Maradona and Di Stefano because everyone who has seen plenty of them, usually tends to put them a tier above. Certainly I don't hear them putting Messi and Ronaldo as the top 2 all on their own.

 

[Revan]

I really don't know how you lot make such tall claims with such certainty. Hopefully you've seen loads of Pele, Maradona and Di Stefano because everyone who has seen plenty of them, usually tends to put them a tier above. Certainly I don't hear them putting Messi and Ronaldo as the top 2 all on their own.

To be fair, no-one here (and barely anywhere) has seen plenty of Pele and Di Stefano. It is mostly watching documentaries with the chosen match in international stage.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Agree. I do still think Messi had the best season though if you're only talking goal about injury free periods (otherwise, Suárez nails it). I think Messi's season has been hugely underrated, again because he didn't score as many as someone else.

He makes Barcelona tick, he creates the majority of their chances, he runs their midfield, he attracts all the opposition's attention. Suárez is a great player but he's a few levels below Messi if you ignore injuries.

To be honest, I think Suarez has had the best season of any player even discounting the 2 months Messi missed.

I'm not really looking at goals between the 2 to determine that, but I think Messi in certain big games this season wasn't as influential as he could have and should have been IMO. Whereas last season(2014-2015), he stepped up in almost every single big game and put his stamp on it.

Not saying Suarez is the better player, because he isn't. But he definitely had the best season of any player in Europe imo.

I think you can also argue Suarez is their most important player. I know it sounds ludicrous, but when Messi or Neymar are missing, one of them can step up to make up for the absence somewhat. When Suarez is missing, it changes the entire dynamic of their team.

 

[Nighteyes]

I really don't know how you lot make such tall claims with such certainty. Hopefully you've seen loads of Pele, Maradona and Di Stefano because everyone who has seen plenty of them, usually tends to put them a tier above. Certainly I don't hear them putting Messi and Ronaldo as the top 2 all on their own.

I have seen lots of full Maradona games and I'm baffled as to why he's rated higher than Messi. Watched lots of videos of the other two and have the same feeling. It's a non contest. Messi shits all over them. When you have a player who's the best dribbler ever, the best passer ever AND one of the one of the best goalscorers ever then he quite clearly belong in a league of his own. Plus who here is old enough to have seen all those players?!? Doubt there's anyone. Most of them are going off the odd games here and there for Pele and Di Stefano.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

I'm not sure about that one,although nostalgia means older players are more revered perhaps.

However I think he is argurably the greatest goal scorer in history.Even better than Muller.

Jimmy Greaves is the best goalscorer to ever play the game.

Ronaldo does not hold a candle to the man in terms of goals per chance. Ronaldo is a far, far better player of course, in fact I think his concentration on scoring records has actually been a detriment to him as an all round player. He was much more effective for a team when he played for us than he is now.

 

[Nighteyes]

Jimmy Greaves is the best goalscorer to ever play the game.

Ronaldo does not hold a candle to the man in terms of goals per chance. Ronaldo is a far, far better player of course, in fact I think his concentration on scoring records has actually been a detriment to him as an all round player. He was much more effective for a team when he played for us than he is now.

Got any actual evidence for that tall claim?

Ronaldo has a better scoring rate despite playing a lot of his initial seasons as a winger.

 

[VivaObertan]

I really don't know how you lot make such tall claims with such certainty. Hopefully you've seen loads of Pele, Maradona and Di Stefano because everyone who has seen plenty of them, usually tends to put them a tier above. Certainly I don't hear them putting Messi and Ronaldo as the top 2 all on their own.

Because of evolution.

Drop any of the top 5 players in the world into absolutely any era pre 1990 and they would wipe the floor with everyone. Faster, stronger, greater skill set and knowledge.

It's like saying the original Mercedes SL (1955 or something) is the best car ever as opposed to the 2016 Mercedes SL because the former was by far the best thing around at the time though statistically (speed, features, safety, reliability etc) it falls short in every aspect.

I love watching the videos of Best, Charlton, Pele, Maradona et al because they absolutely dominated the era they played in BUT they are pretty much playing a different game to what is played now.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Got any actual evidence for that tall claim?

Ronaldo has a better scoring rate despite playing a lot of his initial seasons as a winger.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ice-as-many-shots-as-any-other-la-liga-player

Ronaldo has only an 11% strike rate, half of Suarez. There are no similar stats for Greaves because of the times, but if you think he wracked up these statistics in that era using more chances than Ronaldo I have no idea what to say. The man was simply the finest goal scorer ever to pull on boots.

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...er-england-spurs-and-chelsea-striker-in-stats

 

[montpelier]

I have seen lots of full Maradona games and I'm baffled as to why he's rated higher than Messi. Watched lots of videos of the other two and have the same feeling. It's a non contest. Messi shits all over them. When you have a player who's the best dribbler ever, the best passer ever AND one of the one of the best goalscorers ever then he quite clearly belong in a league of his own. Plus who here is old enough to have seen all those players?!? Doubt there's anyone. Most of them are going off the odd games here and there for Pele and Di Stefano.

1986 WC ? Which Maradona won more or less on his own btw. OK, let's say you have a point. Not doing much in games, except winning them, repeatedly, with astounding goals.
England, Belgium, thinks there's another, tried it again in 1990 through force of reputation & more the assists that time, wasn't that great in that one, admittedly. The 1990 Argentina team were comprehensively crap btw. tell me about Messi's WC success or is he just flat-tracking la Liga as part of easily the best team?

 

[Nighteyes]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ice-as-many-shots-as-any-other-la-liga-player

Ronaldo has only an 11% strike rate, half of Suarez. There are no similar stats for Greaves because of the times, but if you think he wracked up these statistics in that era using more chances than Ronaldo I have no idea what to say. The man was simply the finest goal scorer ever to pull on boots.

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...er-england-spurs-and-chelsea-striker-in-stats

So, you don't really know and probably never even saw Greaves play to the level you have with Ronaldo? Got it.

Besides, those stats for Ronaldo are padded up by the pot shots he takes from outside. In the box he's pretty fecking clinical most of the time.

 

[redwar]

IMHO if you want to rate a footballer as one of the greatest he 's got to have some important characteristics.
- Showing up when it matters (WCs, EUROs, CHL semis and finals)
- Unusual playmaking abilities that change the game along with extraordinary dribbling that opens every defense.


Pele, Cruyff, Maradona have been called great because of their ability to produce this kind of football, meaning game-changing ability along woth skills, when all the eyes are on them.

Messi and Ronaldo are miracles in terms of consistensy, but they are like machines that stop when some serious shit is going on.
Ronaldo also lacks playmaking ability. He doen't bring his trammates in the game.

Let's see some other players. Zidane was also compared with the great ones. You surely understand the reason. He scored crucial goals, like the ones against Leverkusen and Brazil, and dominated one more WC final. Ronaldinho - although he had less good seasons than Messi and Ronaldo, he produced some of his greatest football against big teams. Although he had only 3-4 good seasons, people dared to compare him to the great ones 10 years ago. And yes, you knew he could change any game. Any fecking game.

So, that's my point. Can Ronaldo and Messi make you believe that they can change ANY fecking game? I think not.
Iniesta though...

 

[redwar]

It's just boring to ignore context though. Greatness is more than just pure physical attributes and takes into account when and where they played and what obstacles they had to face, in football for example the quality of the pitches, shoes and the ball and of course much more.

To give you a different example to your Mercedes SL one: Do you think every sprinter who runs faster today than Jesse Owens did in the 30's is a greater sprinter than him? I'm sure there are many who can ran 100m faster than 10.2s today, but their achievements are totally meaningless in comparison. Ignoring the context of achievements in sports is really the most boring way to look at greatness, at least for me. Sure, an average modern sprinter is faster than previous world record holders. He's certainly not greater though. How a player influenced the evolution of the sport, the impact he had on his team and on the public within his era plays a massive role in greatness, always has and hopefully always will.

Thank you for this comment. My thoughts written in proper english. I can't give you a like for this, but somebody should. One of the best comments I have read in this forum.