EU Referendum Results Thread | Leave have won, Cameron resigns

How did you vote to this: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU or leave the EU?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 321 75.5%
  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 80 18.8%
  • Spoiled ballot

    Votes: 24 5.6%

  • Total voters
    425
  • Poll closed .
No, it isn't. Where did you get the idea that 5% is very low?

Not wishing to put words in Ram's mouth but I'd suggest that the fact that the only EU country with lower unemployment than us being Germany with 4.5% suggests that we're not too badly off with most of the Northern EU countries being a percent or two higher than us, France and the US having double our unemployment rate and the rest of the EU rising to 24% by the time you hit the Med.

Why should I blame the immigrants for EU immigration policy? They didn't even have any democratic control over the EU immigration policy, nor did the people of the country that hosts them. There's just no denying that immigration from countries with considerable lower cost of living is making wages lower and increases unemployment.

Why don't you just admit that you don't care about your fellow countrymen for whom there is no job and you find it more important that labour is cheap and that is why you support the EU?

Immigrants aren't stealing anyone's job's it's a nasty xenophobic myth that has been with us since the Windrush landed in 1948, they're mostly doing jobs that our own people would refuse to do usually because they can get better money sitting on their arses. Without the hospital porters, nurses etc the NHS would have ground to a halt years ago, it almost is doing still thanks to the likes of Jeremy Hunt yet you still voted with politicians who swore blind they would use the money they saved us on EU membership on new hospitals despite them not being able to staff those hospitals without immigrants. The Polish plumbers and construction workers are filling skill shortages because British youth do not want to work in that industry and because the few who might find their way blocked as our government had removed many of the vocational training schemes and apprenticeships that once existed, and still are removing them. The Turkish migrants that run the car wash I use haven't stolen any British jobs, they've taken over a derelict former garage that was squeezed out of business by the buying power of supermarket forecourt petrol stations and work damned hard to provide a better and cheaper service than the old automated car washes that have ironically been removed from most supermarket petrol station forecourts.

I'd suggest you read back through some of Rams' or my older posts on workers rights, unemployment or disenfranchisement though before passing further judgement on how either of us think about the plight of our fellow man. It's not the EU that killed our unions though, it's not the EU that destroyed our industrial heartlands, it's not the EU that sold the middle classes on the dream of their kids going into higher education only to then remove the funding and saddle them with debt, it's not the EU that worked around the ECHR rules to introduce zero hour contracts and enable companies to offer salaries below minimum wage and it's sure as shit not the EU that has allowed their business mates so much leeway that they have had to belatedly reintroduce an anti slavery bill to deal with the criminal exploitation and trafficking of migrant workers in the UK.

You and your ilk have just fecked this country over for years to come and screwed my daughters generations prospects indefinitely yet are still trying to blame it all on the EU. Your childish and uninformed strop out of Europe will prove to be the most selfish and stupid political act in my lifetime and thaat's really going some considering the shit Thatcher, Reagan, Blair and Dubya pulled.
 
You still don't understand how it works.

Switzerland was the number one ranked economy in the entire world in terms of stability and competitiveness. It was a much better economy than ours. They have a trade surplus, we have a trade deficit. They accomplish more with lower taxes.

The UK is only the size it is because of the EU. Take that away and our economy is no longer the size that you think it is.

Your use of the word closed minded is terrible. This argument is looking at evidence and previous experience. Yours is looking at an opinion based on nothing but twisted truths and an inflated ego regarding our power.

It is a fact that all 27 member states need to agree on our trade deal. What the EU wants is irrelevant. The countries that we do not do business with still need to agree to our deal. I would like for you to tell me the incentives of these countries to agree to a trade deal that allows us to trade with some EU countries.
i get that the uk is the size it is becuase of the eu, im not arguing that at all.

look at it like a business, your a business, your biggest customer the 5th biggest business in the world, pulls out cos it is unhappy with the deal, it then collapses taking away all the money it was putting into the world economy, and your business....... you think that business will just carry on like normal? look what happens when a big business collapses, look at all the small businesses that sell to that big business that struggle or even collapse themselves.

im not trying to twist any truths, im just trying to show you that this isnt going to just affect Britain, the remain campaign has been banging on about how we live in a global economy for months, their right, listen to them, what happens to one of the biggest economies in the world affects others!
 
i get that the uk is the size it is becuase of the eu, im not arguing that at all.

look at it like a business, your a business, your biggest customer the 5th biggest business in the world, pulls out cos it is unhappy with the deal, it then collapses taking away all the money it was putting into the world economy, and your business....... you think that business will just carry on like normal? look what happens when a big business collapses, look at all the small businesses that sell to that big business that struggle or even collapse themselves.

im not trying to twist any truths, im just trying to show you that this isnt going to just affect Britain, the remain campaign has been banging on about how we live in a global economy for months, their right, listen to them, what happens to one of the biggest economies in the world affects others!

You fundamentally misunderstand the fact that we are not a customer of the EU. We cannot move on until you understand this. It literally changes everything when discussing a trade deal.
 
You fundamentally misunderstand the fact that we are not a customer of the EU. We cannot move on until you understand this.
in what way arnt we a customer? we imports billions of billions of pounds worth of goods from eu buinneses, please enlighten me?
 
It seems the Leave voters are stupid or racists, probably both.
In fact in this great world we live in we are all racists and more than likely stupid.
 
What I find interesting is that life expentancy is 89 for people who are 73 now which cannot be quite right.

It's normal for life expectancy to vary across age groups and obviously natural, even if counter-intuitive, that older people have higher life expectancy. It's actually the life expectancy of the younger age groups in that table that is almost certainly wrong, as it seems far too high.
 


I really think its mad, hindsight or not, to put historical decisions in the hands of stay at home moms and joe plumbers. I mean there are many people outraged that their morning shows were cancelled to cover the Brexit.
 
I've explained this to you like 5 times but you refuse to acknowledge it.
ive read each of your posts none of then explain how exactly the fact the EU is going to be fine suddenly having its biggest costumer/ consumer / trading partner collapse, without any consquences to them.

honestly if you have a decnt answer i would love to hear it, but you seem to be going agaisnt all the experts who are saying thier will be a recession across europe as well as here
 
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Until someone sends that letter to the EU under Article 50 then the UK remains in the EU, wonder how long they can drag it out

Cameron wont send it I don't think so probably depends on who the next leader is... will they want to start negotiations in the background and try to agree a framework for things and possibly let the French and German elections go past before starting the formal process (if so this could well be late 2017 early 2018 before the two years starts (taking us very close to the next UK general election - presuming the 2 years was achievable)

Or will they feel they have to be seen to do it straight away to be enacting the will of the referendum (but possibly going in to negotiations in a very tough climate i.e. the French / Germans wont want to make any concessions otherwise their own frexit gerexit folks will be pushing for concessions / referendums as well)

Sensible approach 2018 and make the next election almost a second referendum on accepting whats on offer - probable approach is boris writing a letter (in crayon) to start atricle 50 on his first day as PM before jetting off and bumbling around Europe taking about frogs and krauts
 
ive read each of your posts none of then explain how exactly the fact the EU is going to be fine suddenly having its biggest costumer/ customer / trading partner collapse, without any consquences to them.

You need to stop thinking that 'the EU' receives custom from us. The EU is not one institution. We do not ship to 'The EU'. We do not order from 'The EU'. This is not how it works. Please understand this.

This is how it works.

The EU is made up of countries A, B, C, D, E and F.

We do business with countries A, C and F. We do no business with B, D and E.

Countries A, C and F are gutted that we left. Countries B, D and E are unaffected.

This is how it works. The EU cannot say shit about the business they lose. They lost no business at all. Countries A, C and F lost business. Countries A, C and F would love to agree a trade deal with us to replace that business (about 10% of their yearly exports) but all the rest of the countries in the EU don't care. They get nothing from us. They lose nothing from us. But here's the kicker, they still have a vote in whether our trade deal goes through.

So you need to stop saying that 'the EU' loses a tonne of business from us. No it doesn't. A few countries in the EU lose business with us, the rest lose shit.

Now when it comes to negotiating a trade deal, every country has to vote yes. We go to the EU and we say 'look guys, we need to replace 45% of our exports. Please help us out'. Countries B, D and E say 'what's in it for us? We don't care. We haven't lost anything by you leaving.' This notion that 'the EU' will be crippled by us leaving just isn't true. First of all a lot of them don't even trade with us, and secondly the amount that the ones who do actually trade with us contribute, is very small because the huge amount you think we import from the EU is actually much smaller amounts split between a lot of countries. It does not matter if France are distraught that they lost a tonne of business from us. They need to convince 26 other countries to vote yes to a deal that hasn't affected them. This is where we are forced to agree to things we don't want, because we have to replace a lot more than they lost, and we need to give an incentive to the countries we don't currently trade with.
 
ive read each of your posts none of then explain how exactly the fact the EU is going to be fine suddenly having its biggest costumer/ customer / trading partner collapse, without any consquences to them.

Because we do not trade with the EU. We trade with countries in the EU. The EU is an umbrella, not one entity. It's really not that complicated.

A simple example - in a basic world imagine all of our imports are from one country, say Germany. But our exports are to 3 countries, say France, Germany and Italy.

Germany? Sure it's in their interest to make a deal with us.

France and Italy? They couldn't give a shit. They could tag on the tariffs and we would lose out because we need to sell to them. If they can't buy from us they go elsewhere.

Also you're missing another fundamental point. Have you considered that certain countries only took our exports because being in the free trade area made our prices competitive. Now that we are out who is to say they can't find another country in the EU to buy the goods from now that it'd be cheaper.

Also, a final fundamental to try and explain again. Imagine Our 23bn imports come from 10 countries. That's 2.3bn pee country. Do you honestly think they couldn't handle that loss? Also what makes you think they can't find other customers?

We are one country, importing to and exporting from 27. Therefore there gains and losses are split between 27 presuming equality between them, whereas we feel the full force of the gains and losses.

It's simple, basic economics.
 
Cameron wont send it I don't think so probably depends on who the next leader is... will they want to start negotiations in the background and try to agree a framework for things and possibly let the French and German elections go past before starting the formal process (if so this could well be late 2017 early 2018 before the two years starts (taking us very close to the next UK general election - presuming the 2 years was achievable)

Or will they feel they have to be seen to do it straight away to be enacting the will of the referendum (but possibly going in to negotiations in a very tough climate i.e. the French / Germans wont want to make any concessions otherwise their own frexit gerexit folks will be pushing for concessions / referendums as well)

Sensible approach 2018 and make the next election almost a second referendum on accepting whats on offer - probable approach is boris writing a letter (in crayon) to start atricle 50 on his first day as PM before jetting off and bumbling around Europe taking about frogs and krauts

Its in the EU interest to have the enemy within out as soon as possible
 
im gonna go with months it will be the person who takes over from cameron who has to do it

Probably will be, but what if they never send it,they don't have to, civil unrest in the streets, probably the longer it goes on the more unrest there will be amongst the Leavers- "why hasn't it been sent yet"
 
Which part of leaving and causing a recession seemed like a good idea? Cause I looked in to both sides and found it absolutely impossible to rightfully justify a leave vote. Nothing suggests we'll be better off out, it's all blind hope and wishful thinking combined with a dash of nostalgia for the good old days.


Well 1.3 million or thereabouts more people saw enough reason to vote leave over remain too, I'm still overjoyed about the outcome and people should respect that. People are panicking and acting like the UK is going to crash and burn. It won't at all.
 
Cameron wont send it I don't think so probably depends on who the next leader is... will they want to start negotiations in the background and try to agree a framework for things and possibly let the French and German elections go past before starting the formal process (if so this could well be late 2017 early 2018 before the two years starts (taking us very close to the next UK general election - presuming the 2 years was achievable)

Or will they feel they have to be seen to do it straight away to be enacting the will of the referendum (but possibly going in to negotiations in a very tough climate i.e. the French / Germans wont want to make any concessions otherwise their own frexit gerexit folks will be pushing for concessions / referendums as well)

Sensible approach 2018 and make the next election almost a second referendum on accepting whats on offer - probable approach is boris writing a letter (in crayon) to start atricle 50 on his first day as PM before jetting off and bumbling around Europe taking about frogs and krauts

They want us out asap.

The EU's leadership has demanded Britain activate Article 50 exit talks "as soon as possible" as they attempt to end the uncertainty over the bloc, "however painful that process may be".

President Tusk, President Schulz and Prime Minister Rutte met this morning in Brussels upon the invitation of European Commission President Juncker.

"Any delay would unnecessarily prolong uncertainty. We have rules to deal with this in an orderly way. Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union sets out the procedure to be followed if a Member State decides to leave the European Union," the official statement said. "We stand ready to launch negotiations swiftly with the United Kingdom regarding the terms and conditions of its withdrawal from the European Union."
 
You need to stop thinking that 'the EU' receives custom from us. The EU is not one institution. We do not ship to 'The EU'. We do not order from 'The EU'. This is not how it works. Please understand this.

This is how it works.

The EU is made up of countries A, B, C, D, E and F.

We do business with countries A, C and F. We do no business with B, D and E.

Countries A, C and F are gutted that we left. Countries B, D and E are unaffected.

This is how it works. The EU cannot say shit about the business they lose. They lost no business at all. Countries A, C and F lost business. Countries A, C and F would love to agree a trade deal with us to replace that business (about 10% of their yearly exports) but all the rest of the countries in the EU don't care. They get nothing from us. They lose nothing from us. But here's the kicker, they still have a vote in whether our trade deal goes through.

So you need to stop saying that 'the EU' loses a tonne of business from us. No it doesn't. A few countries in the EU lose business with us, the rest lose shit.

Now when it comes to negotiating a trade deal, every country has to vote yes. We go to the EU and we say 'look guys, we need to replace 45% of our exports. Please help us out'. Countries B, D and E say 'what's in it for us? We don't care. We haven't lost anything by you leaving.' This notion that 'the EU' will be crippled by us leaving just isn't true. First of all a lot of them don't even trade with us, and secondly the amount that the ones who do actually trade with us contribute, is very small because the huge amount you think we import from the EU is actually much smaller amounts split between a lot of countries. It does not matter if France are distraught that they lost a tonne of business from us. They need to convince 26 other countries to vote yes to a deal that hasn't affected them. This is where we are forced to agree to things we don't want, because we have to replace a lot more than they lost, and we need to give an incentive to the countries we don't currently trade with.

Well explained. However just to play devils advocate a bit, is it factually correct that all the countries must approve it? If we agree a deal with the whole of the EU sure, but is it not a possibility we agree with individual nations, such as Germany for example? I don't know the answer to that tbh.

In any case we still lose out because I'd put money on the fact we export to more countries than we import from and it's only be the ones we import from that would care.
 
Well 1.3 million or thereabouts more people saw enough reason to vote leave over remain too, I'm still overjoyed about the outcome and people should respect that. People are panicking and acting like the UK is going to crash and burn. It won't at all.

Fair enough you are overjoyed but at least 48% of the country aren't happy with the result and "people should respect that". Given the immediate reaction from an economic point of view, people panicking is probably fair enough. Not all of us have faith.
 
Well 1.3 million or thereabouts more people saw enough reason to vote leave over remain too, I'm still overjoyed about the outcome and people should respect that. People are panicking and acting like the UK is going to crash and burn. It won't at all.

There's nothing the Caf loves more than a good meltdown.
 


This all has a very Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith vibe about it.

 
Well explained. However just to play devils advocate a bit, is it factually correct that all the countries must approve it? If we agree a deal with the whole of the EU sure, but is it not a possibility we agree with individual nations, such as Germany for example? I don't know the answer to that tbh.

In any case we still lose out because I'd put money on the fact we export to more countries than we import from and it's only be the ones we import from that would care.
The whole point of the EU is that the continent can get a better deal by working together. And that's achieved by giving everyone a veto, so no law passes without consent from every countries officials.
 
It's the young who have to live with this. Not the old.

More ageist crap. What is old and how long until they die please? Are you suggesting that anyone with say, less than a certain amount of time to live, should vote entirely on the basis that other people with a different opinion are going to live longer? Are they also not going to "live with it"? Does the fact that they have less time to live make their voice any less valid?

Not forgetting the inherent assumption in your statement that the "old" (whoever they are) have made a mistake.
 
Cameron wont send it I don't think so probably depends on who the next leader is... will they want to start negotiations in the background and try to agree a framework for things and possibly let the French and German elections go past before starting the formal process (if so this could well be late 2017 early 2018 before the two years starts (taking us very close to the next UK general election - presuming the 2 years was achievable)

Or will they feel they have to be seen to do it straight away to be enacting the will of the referendum (but possibly going in to negotiations in a very tough climate i.e. the French / Germans wont want to make any concessions otherwise their own frexit gerexit folks will be pushing for concessions / referendums as well)

Sensible approach 2018 and make the next election almost a second referendum on accepting whats on offer - probable approach is boris writing a letter (in crayon) to start atricle 50 on his first day as PM before jetting off and bumbling around Europe taking about frogs and krauts

True with elections coming up in France and Germany they are not going to be too concerned about the UK - unless Boris can interest them in his chocolate cake.
 
Yes but only we can start the process (but I would expect them to push to get it wrapped up within the 2 year framework that's allowed which will inevitably lead to a messy deal all round)

Unless they vote you out. As said no one likes having deserters around.
 
Well 1.3 million or thereabouts more people saw enough reason to vote leave over remain too, I'm still overjoyed about the outcome and people should respect that. People are panicking and acting like the UK is going to crash and burn. It won't at all.

The irony of course is by claiming everything will not crash and burn, you're speculating just as wildly as people who do think it'll crash and burn.

Nobody knows what the future holds now, and people will voice their concerns.
 
A more accurate age bracket at which the polls start to show sentiment shift in favour of leave was 45 years and above. The UK population of 18-44 year olds is lower than the population of people 45 years and above according to the last census.

If turn out was equal between both groups, the over 45's would have more voters. I don't think it's fair to generalise younger voters with being too lazy to vote until we know the actual turnout figures by those demographics.

Of course not. And it's a lazy as generalizing that the older voter vote is not as valid because they ain't got much time left.
 
You need to stop thinking that 'the EU' receives custom from us. The EU is not one institution. We do not ship to 'The EU'. We do not order from 'The EU'. This is not how it works. Please understand this.

This is how it works.

The EU is made up of countries A, B, C, D, E and F.

We do business with countries A, C and F. We do no business with B, D and E.

Countries A, C and F are gutted that we left. Countries B, D and E are unaffected.

This is how it works. The EU cannot say shit about the business they lose. They lost no business at all. Countries A, C and F lost business. Countries A, C and F would love to agree a trade deal with us to replace that business (about 10% of their yearly exports) but all the rest of the countries in the EU don't care. They get nothing from us. They lose nothing from us. But here's the kicker, they still have a vote in whether our trade deal goes through.

So you need to stop saying that 'the EU' loses a tonne of business from us. No it doesn't. A few countries in the EU lose business with us, the rest lose shit.

Now when it comes to negotiating a trade deal, every country has to vote yes. We go to the EU and we say 'look guys, we need to replace 45% of our exports. Please help us out'. Countries B, D and E say 'what's in it for us? We don't care. We haven't lost anything by you leaving.' This notion that 'the EU' will be crippled by us leaving just isn't true. First of all a lot of them don't even trade with us, and secondly the amount that the ones who do actually trade with us contribute, is very small because the huge amount you think we import from the EU is actually much smaller amounts split between a lot of countries. It does not matter if France are distraught that they lost a tonne of business from us. They need to convince 26 other countries to vote yes to a deal that hasn't affected them. This is where we are forced to agree to things we don't want, because we have to replace a lot more than they lost, and we need to give an incentive to the countries we don't currently trade with.
i understand what your saying.... but you dont think the fact that the few countrys (A C and F ) lose so many billions of pound in business, its knock gonna have affect across EU? i can understand that countrys stoping the trade deal, i don't undertsand how that amount of money suddenly leaving the eu market isn't going to affect other countrys?
 
Prime Minister Boris: "First, the bad news - there's no food left; now, the good news - we've won the exclusive contract for bicycle clips from Sparta."
 
The thread on The Student Room was almost 50-50. So its probably not fair laying off the entire blame on the old farts.