Nothing cowardly about voting the way you did mate - most of us are risk-averse and I wavered myself as the day of the vote neared.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Nothing cowardly about voting the way you did mate - most of us are risk-averse and I wavered myself as the day of the vote neared.
I'm sure the Greek people would love to see you tell that to them in person.
And the adequate support thing is becoming a huge issue. BoJo and Gove do not really want out.
How many leavers have you spoken to? 5? 10? 17.4 million? What sample size are you basing this "small club" assumption on? I'm intrigued because I too am a member of said small club.
You don't need free trade to trade normally.
It wasn't meant to be taken personal. I'm sure that there are plenty of great Greek people around. However their country is basically bankrupted and its horribly managed. It's living on life support thanks to the Eu bailouts. Do you think that from an Eu perspective greece would be missed if they were gone? The money that bailed them up would surely be missed but the country, I much doubt it
Was just thinking about something earlier on, as I sat in very heavy traffic in London. I was thinking about INFLATION. I wonder do people even know what that word means anymore? Been so long since price inflation was a real problem. At least a generation. I'd say there is a whole swathe of the British population that have no idea what inflation is. Just a thought.
How many you or I talk to is a pretty crazy way of attempting to work out what people voted for. If you are in doubt (and I am not sure how you could be) check out the nature of the successful campaign and profile the comments from leavers explaining their reasons. Words like 'democracy' are way down compared to repeated assertions about immigrants and jobs.
By small I mean a small portion of the Leave vote and nothing like enough to base an outcome on. Not small in absolute terms. Over a million, WAY less than 17m.
My dad is one. He voted for the EU 40 odd years ago and is one of a number who thinks it has become something he cannot vote for, something very different from the original free trade club of well off countries... and you can debate the selfishness or what have you of this position but is clearly understandable. You can also debate the pragmatism.
You keep saying they will lose billions. You don't mention the ones we will lose
Anyone with a modicum of commonsense knew that Johnson joined the leave camp as he was after the top job so that's not exactly news to me. In any case, I didn't listen to much he said during the campaign (and even less to that bellend Farage) and made my decision based on other sources.
So 1 million out of 17 million then? Errrrr, ok Einstein
It is a guess, of course. As is your little non-indicative straw poll of your mates.
True enough mate.
If the EU accepts a more nuanced approach to FoM, it would not only increase the chances of a deal with the UK but go to head off problems in other member states. It has been the EU's obsession with a one-size-fits-all approach that has exacerbated Europe's troubles, be they economic or in regard to immigration.
Limited freedom of movement still allows them to stand by their ideals, only a more sensible way. Britain can agree to revisit the quota every 5 or 10 years, which implies a degree of openness depending upon the domestic or global climate.
But while we still might pay an annual contribution the figure will be noticeably lower, on account of our withdrawal from the CAP, the CFP, the ECJ and the EEAS.
Limited freedom of movement still allows them to stand by their ideals, only a more sensible way. Britain can agree to revisit the quota every 5 or 10 years, which implies a degree of openness depending upon the domestic or global climate.
But while we still might pay an annual contribution the figure will be noticeably lower, on account of our withdrawal from the CAP, the CFP, the ECJ and the EEAS.
Would be a sad sad World, rather than limiting freedom of movement the EU should be working towards increasing it with the likes of Canada, Japan, Australia & NZ
Contributions decreasing means less distribution of wealth from the rich economies to the poorer up and coming ones, thus less chance that these countries will be more popular places to live in the future for freedom of movement workers.
fecking English and their small minded short term thinking mentalities, happy with a trip to Cornwall and Ibiza once a year, fecking up a beautiful ideal cause they think being lucky enough to be born in a country gives them more right to a better life than others in this One World. Selfish wankers.
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That principle is pretty baked in though. The power figures definitely won't move on it easily and this result is not close to enough to make it move on its own. You may be right in the end perhaps.
My point to the previous poster is that if you speculate on the results of a referendum to stay in/rejoin the EEA, I think at best you are looking at a narrow Remain win, with a huge block of voters unable to distinguish between EEA and EU, others voting it down because realistically it means no control on immigration and adoption of a huge body of EU legislation that we have no control over, etc. In short it pretty much blows away points 1 and 2 in the poll posted above. I do take on the argument that many voted Leave as a protest without much expectation that it would change anything, however, and may therefore grudgingly accept an EEA deal without too much noise if the negotiators at least tried to make the point about free movement and the accession of poorer economies being a big threat to the greater movement and its support in key nations. It just makes the whole result potentially such a huge waste of time and money.
Would be a sad sad World, rather than limiting freedom of movement the EU should be working towards increasing it with the likes of Canada, Japan, Australia & NZ
Contributions decreasing means less distribution of wealth from the rich economies to the poorer up and coming ones, thus less chance that these countries will be more popular places to live in the future for freedom of movement workers.
fecking English and their small minded short term thinking mentalities, happy with a trip to Cornwall and Ibiza once a year, fecking up a beautiful ideal cause they think being lucky enough to be born in a country gives them more right to a better life than others in this One World.
Yes, much arrogance, selfishness, short termism about this. Though there is also a reverse argument to say that the EU has put barriers up to free trade outside itself.
Gone where? They're not going to just disappear.
Should we help them? Absolutely we should.
Why? Because we can.
Although, I say 'we', sadly 52% of voters don't care about being part of a larger community.
Ah, but would being free of the EU and particularly the Euro and simply subject to appropriate aid actually enable Greece to recover quicker?
Iceland did not bail out its banks, it took the shock and set on the path to recovery...
Iceland did not bail out its banks, it took the shock and set on the path to recovery...
Two points. The Leave campaign talked of maintaining CAP payments (except from the UK government). For all sorts of reasons this is problematic, and I would oppose it (not least as most of the money goes to massive companies, rather than individual farmers, a decision made by the UK Government).
Second, if the UK retains EU Law, which it will have to do (China does, and we will have to as well), then surely we would want a continued voice at the ECJ, if only for trade purposes and treaty interpretation?
Oh Aye, the EU certainly isn't perfect, but as capitalism goes, it's certainly one of the better systems. But like any good system, it has to keep evolving.
If it wasn't already the case, he is now hated by most European politicians.
The initial argument was based on the concept that Greece left the EU out of its own free will. As said the country won't be missed. That would in fact mean not bailing Greece out again and again
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I believe Greece did their homework before choosing to remain. Also who aid Greece if it decidestill to leave the EU. Maybe the UK would do that?
He doesn't care. He just turned up to troll them. Look at his face when sits down after the speech. He just wanted to tell them to feck off. I agree with Junker in that I didn't understand Farage or what his true motivation is. I think he wants to destroy the EU. After they won he crowed 'this is the first brick in the wall'.
The Leave campaign are trying to oust him from any negotiations so as another poster said yesterday, perhaps he is there for his UKIP audience back home for so he can get elected into the Houses of Parliament.
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But if he intends to continue in politic, he will face these people and that even if the EU is destroyed, which won't happen anytime soon, he will interact with these people.
Would be a sad sad World, rather than limiting freedom of movement the EU should be working towards increasing it with the likes of Canada, Japan, Australia & NZ
Contributions decreasing means less distribution of wealth from the rich economies to the poorer up and coming ones, thus less chance that these countries will be more popular places to live in the future for freedom of movement workers.
fecking English and their small minded short term thinking mentalities, happy with a trip to Cornwall and Ibiza once a year, fecking up a beautiful ideal cause they think being lucky enough to be born in a country gives them more right to a better life than others in this One World. Selfish wankers.
I know that you are keen Remainer, but that reply bears little resemblance to what i was suggesting. And like some others, it does appear that you hold an unpleasant prejudice against a section of British society.
Net levels of EU immigration that would have been the norm during Labour's time in office, is hardly a sad, sad world. Furthermore, such reductions open the door to individuals outside of the EU, and creates further capacity for refugees (the latter being permitted to work where they cannot at present). So what it represents, is a more intelligent and
I also think you'll find that the the UK actually adheres to its international development commitment of 0.7% of GDP,m unlike some of our European colleagues.
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He is an egomaniac. I think he enjoys the conflict TBH. His own party tried to ditch him after he failed to win his seat in the last general election but he fought back to stay as leader. It is a joke how high profile he is when he isn't even an MP in the UK.
Like Marine Le Pen then, they give our countries a bad name.
The opposite is true. It would mean making amendments to anti-immigration movements across Europe and give people like Le Pen and Wilders a field day, as well as proving Farage right.
This is not going to happen.
No, it would open the flood gates
So bascially, you are just reiterating the Brexiteer dream of reaping the benefits with next to none obligations tied to it...
Towards you? It's actually much more towards my Mum, her fella, her fellas kids and the dozens and dozens of Selfish wankers I've seen on the tv giving their reasons for leave votes.
Take it personally if you left for the same reasons as they did, to keep Britain to yourself and stop immigration. If you didn't, the the insult wasn't at all aimed towards you but I thought that much was obvious in my post. Plenty of people have some decent reasons to leave the EU, just a shame the huge majority do not.
Less freedom of movement is a sad World to me, I'm a guy who's had the chance to live and work in Britain (being British), Aus, NZ, Sweden, Norway and France... because fortunately for me I won the birth lottery.
You won't change my mind on freedom of movement, the UK problem is due to the lack of Unions, the stupid amount of benefits, all things the UK government could fix to stem the flow of immigration from within the EU. Paying into the EU and helping to grow economies like Poland also does this.
Freedom of movement gives people a chance for a better life, prevents repression, jealously and ultimately war.
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Primarily and most importantly they are byproducts of austerity and the financial crisis. Immigration, c'est un poisson rouge!
Yeah. after Hollande, Le Pen is the next French politician with a high profile in the UK.
So we should cut benefits and send more people into poverty to deter immigration?
No, that's not what I said at all.
So what do you mean by stupid amounts of benefits that the government could change to deter immigration?
Even though, she loses every elections she is involved in, at the exception of the europeans? She isn't even the biggest politician in her own party, her niece is far more popular and one of the rare FN MPs.