Pro BrExit voters - how do you feel now?

- why you voted leave

To force necessary reform; ideally for all of he continent, but Britain at a minimum. This was a defining opportunity to half the further encroachment of a European Union that is more interested in the acquisition of power than serving its people. There was no evidence that the balance of accountability would improve over time, if anything the opposite is the case.

We are restoring sovereignty that its politicians had demonstrated a diminishing competence in possessing, and taxes that they were wasting.

Cooperation ought to be embraced, a further layer of government, not so.


- if you still think you made the right decision and why

Absolutely. It took years to get to this point and it shall take time to find a new way. But the country has changed much since 1973, there are aspects of which we have benefited greatly and we must seek to find the right balance in separation.

Brexit did not suddenly create a divided society or racial tensions, yet it has shone a glaring light upon those ills which already existed. If the referendum hs shattered a few illusions is it really such a bad thing? I can't say that either the UK or the EU was producing any solutions prior to June 23rd.


- has the past week been as expected

The party political nonsense has actually been a little more chaotic than i expected. more-so in the case of Labour. The Lib Dems are still an irrelevance though; Tim Farron doesn't even deserve to stand in the corner let alone sit at the table.

The economic consequences have been within expected limits, and Sterling is likely to recover somewhat once MPs stop scratching each other's eyes out.


- how you expect next few weeks and months to play out.

I doubt whether anything significant will happen in the next week or two, although i am cautiously interested in the composition of our negotiating team.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
- why you voted leave

To force necessary reform; ideally for all of he continent, but Britain at a minimum. This was a defining opportunity to half the further encroachment of a European Union that is more interested in the acquisition of power than serving its people. There was no evidence that the balance of accountability would improve over time, if anything the opposite is the case.

We are restoring sovereignty that its politicians had demonstrated a diminishing competence in possessing, and taxes that they were wasting.

Cooperation ought to be embraced, a further layer of government, not so.


- if you still think you made the right decision and why

Absolutely. It took years to get to this point and it shall take time to find a new way. But the country has changed much since 1973, there are aspects of which we have benefited greatly and we must seek to find the right balance in separation.

Brexit did not suddenly create a divided society or racial tensions, yet it has shone a glaring light upon those ills which already existed. If the referendum hs shattered a few illusions is it really such a bad thing? I can't say that either the UK or the EU was producing any solutions prior to June 23rd.


- has the past week been as expected

The party political nonsense has actually been a little more chaotic than i expected. more-so in the case of Labour. The Lib Dems are still an irrelevance though; Tim Farron doesn't even deserve to stand in the corner let alone sit at the table.

The economic consequences have been within expected limits, and Sterling is likely to recover somewhat once MPs stop scratching each other's eyes out.


- how you expect next few weeks and months to play out.

I doubt whether anything significant will happen in the next week or two, although i am cautiously interested in the composition of our negotiating team.
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So what's the end goal of all this? When can we start to think that all of the sh*t we are seeing currently was worth it and what does Britain at that time look like?
 
And are you pleased that nutjobs like Gove and May are almost certain to be in charge of rewriting the entirety of British law should we trigger Article 50? Theresa May who isn't a fan of human rights that is. And Gove who, like Blair, isn't a fan of evidence.
 
Ramshock said:
@Red Dreams you were pro brexit?
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I was with the thought, we would not actually leave. I did not actually vote being here. But if I had been there, my feelings would not be different. I think leaving the EU is going to do more harm than good. Having said that, I was never in favour of surrendering our will to faceless people in the EU. Yes. I was consious of the fact the Germans were the strongest nation in the EU. I'm not anti them or anyone else. I'm simply pro-Britain from an Old Labour point of view.
 
Red Dreams said:
I was with the thought, we would not actually leave. I did not actually vote being here. But if I had been there, my feelings would not be different. I think leaving the EU is going to do more harm than good. Having said that, I was never in favour of surrendering our will to faceless people in the EU. Yes. I was consious of the fact the Germans were the strongest nation in the EU. I'm not anti them or anyone else. I'm simply pro-Britain from an Old Labour point of view.
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Fair enough.
 
endless_wheelies said:
So what's the end goal of all this? When can we start to think that all of the sh*t we are seeing currently was worth it and what does Britain at that time look like?
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The "sh*t" we are seeing currently is a mere ripple in the currents of change compared to what countries have endured whilst members of the EU.

The precise nature of the future will depend upon the terms of the deal we reach, but i think we can be a more outward looking country over time, and one with a less detached democratic process. For the latter in particular, the EU posed only an increasing threat. With no realistic or voluntary path to reform, the moment had arrived to bring home a different kind of reality to the folks in Brussels.


TwoSheds said:
And are you pleased that nutjobs like Gove and May are almost certain to be in charge of rewriting the entirety of British law should we trigger Article 50? Theresa May who isn't a fan of human rights that is. And Gove who, like Blair, isn't a fan of evidence.
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Unless we are now assuming that Cameron would have stood for office in 2020, in what way would a non-Brexit future differ? The addition of Osborne's name i suppose, however his standing within the party was already on the slide. Nor do look upon the Chancellor's involvement as the least bit beneficial.
 
According to a friend who voted leave (he is English. I am not so didn't vote):

Eastern Europeans, particulary polish and romanians are flooding England. We don't have the resources to accomodate all of them. If you go to my local mall you would think it is Eastern europe. They don't even mingle with us. I don't have a problem with immigration but it is unfair that a doctor from India or Pakistan has to go through eveything to come here and will be a part of society whereas it is just come and go for Easter Europe. Gypsies come here with their knife crime and scare locals. EU is a fail idea anyway.


This is what he had to say. I don't agree with him but I can tell you for a fact he is not a racist person.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
The "sh*t" we are seeing currently is a mere ripple in the currents of change compared to what countries have endured whilst members of the EU.

The precise nature of the future will depend upon the terms of the deal we reach, but i think we can be a more outward looking country over time, and one with a less detached democratic process. For the latter in particular, the EU posed only an increasing threat. With no realistic or voluntary path to reform, the moment had arrived to bring home a different kind of reality to the folks in Brussels.
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How is our sh*t related to sh*t that happened inside the EU? Ours is entirely self-inflicted and on the back of creditable economic growth within the EU.

Don't really understand the democracy argument, 90% of EU decisions were made through consensus between our elected leaders and the remainder went to council vote of our elected leaders, nothing was decided without the input of those who are democratically elected. Do you really think links between London and the political outreaches of our country will be helped now that London has total autonomy over all matters of funding etc and with less money to spread around? Why exactly will leaving the EU help that?

Specifically, how will being more outward looking and less democratically detached manifest itself and when we will we see it?
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I am cautiously interested in the composition of our negtiating team.
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It doesn't matter in the slightest who is in the negotiating team. None of the prospective leaders will allow free movement, end of negotiation.

Although there was one European leader, I forget which sorry, who said a deal without free movement might be possible if the British paid enough money.
He was trying and failing to hide his amusement as he said it though.
 
712 said:
It doesn't matter in the slightest who is in the negotiating team. None of the prospective leaders will allow free movement, end of negotiation.

Although there was one European leader, I forget which sorry, who said a deal without free movement might be possible if the British paid enough money.
He was trying and failing to hide his amusement as he said it though.
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Was reading today that people in the government think it might be possible to get in the single market without free movement, if we let our financial services go to Frankfurt.

But at least we'd get that £350m a week back!
 
Ubik said:
Was reading today that people in the government think it might be possible to get in the single market without free movement, if we let our financial services go to Frankfurt.

But at least we'd get that £350m a week back!
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Where? Or are you trolling?
 
Chorley1974 said:
Where? Or are you trolling?
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New Statesman. http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-vote-150000-conservative-members-will-decide

Why does that matter? Well, the emerging consensus on Whitehall is that, provided you were willing to sacrifice the bulk of Britain’s financial services to Frankfurt and Paris, there is a deal to be struck in which Britain remains subject to only three of the four freedoms – free movement of goods, services, capital and people – but retains access to the single market.
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Whether this is seriously being discussed is another matter.
 
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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
The "sh*t" we are seeing currently is a mere ripple in the currents of change compared to what countries have endured whilst members of the EU.

The precise nature of the future will depend upon the terms of the deal we reach, but i think we can be a more outward looking country over time, and one with a less detached democratic process. For the latter in particular, the EU posed only an increasing threat. With no realistic or voluntary path to reform, the moment had arrived to bring home a different kind of reality to the folks in Brussels.




Unless we are now assuming that Cameron would have stood for office in 2020, in what way would a non-Brexit future differ? The addition of Osborne's name i suppose, however his standing within the party was already on the slide. Nor do look upon the Chancellor's involvement as the least bit beneficial.
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I mean, there are no guarantees that a Conservative government that didn't deliver Brexit, and has been accused of human rights abuses by the UN for its austerity policies, is winning anything in the next election tbf, no matter how many constituency boundaries they redraw in order to rig the system.

But even assuming they did, well in fact the EU was there to rule against such wonderful ideas as scrapping the Human Rights Act, there to hopefully rule against the Snooper's Charter, was there to protect workers' rights, environmental legislation etc etc.

Now you've potentially given complete control to any lunatic in the Conservative party that can come up with the most convincing (to a bunch of lunatics) plan to (pretend to?) halt globalisation whilst still making money. And believe me, they don't care about whether you're making money or not, your life is just a vague consequence of their actions.
 
712 said:
It doesn't matter in the slightest who is in the negotiating team. None of the prospective leaders will allow free movement, end of negotiation.

Although there was one European leader, I forget which sorry, who said a deal without free movement might be possible if the British paid enough money.
He was trying and failing to hide his amusement as he said it though.
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The freedom of movement combined with the expansion of the EU with poor countries is essential to the EU dream of the race to the bottom: The cost of labour, working conditions and working hours etc should be dragged down to Bulgarian level for all Europeans.

So the EU will, as always, ignore the interests of Europeans to trade easily with the UK in favour of the EU need to have it's revenge and push through the race to the bottom by blackmailing non members into accepting free movement.

Free movement is of course a good thing, if it is between countries with comparable living standards and cost of living. Between rich countries en poor countries it means that people from poor countries will arrive in massive numbers, work harder for less money, send that money home and worsen job security and pay for the native workers. Immigration is good when it's for the right reasons, if it's just pushed through for the reason of lowering the cost of labour (and let the unemployement benefits be paid for by other workers), it's plain wrong.

The right wing elite of Europe is just leaning back and watching how the left wing in the UK is fighting their fight, because they don't understand what they are fighting for.
 
I voted to leave, and I'm relieved that we'll be leaving. No regrets at all. However, it's not something to be smug about, as there are so many people worried about the short term implications.
 
Ubik said:
New Statesman. http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-vote-150000-conservative-members-will-decide

Whether this is seriously being discussed is another matter.
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That's a load of rubbish and I expect they've just thrown that in there as it's a nothing article. Firstly the 'bulk' of our financial services arent directly affected by Brexit it's probably less than a quarter.

Secondly Mifid 2 will be implemented prior to Brexit at this rate and that will provide equivalency. That's not to say they definetely won't move but that's a wider consideration and not directly a Brexit one. I'm sure the loosening of bankers bonus limitations would be a strong incentive to stay
 
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Dr. Funkenstein said:
The freedom of movement combined with the expansion of the EU with poor countries is essential to the EU dream of the race to the bottom: The cost of labour, working conditions and working hours etc should be dragged down to Bulgarian level for all Europeans.

So the EU will, as always, ignore the interests of Europeans to trade easily with the UK in favour of the EU need to have it's revenge and push through the race to the bottom by blackmailing non members into accepting free movement.

Free movement is of course a good thing, if it is between countries with comparable living standards and cost of living. Between rich countries en poor countries it means that people from poor countries will arrive in massive numbers, work harder for less money, send that money home and worsen job security and pay for the native workers. Immigration is good when it's for the right reasons, if it's just pushed through for the reason of lowering the cost of labour (and let the unemployement benefits be paid for by other workers), it's plain wrong.

The right wing elite of Europe is just leaning back and watching how the left wing in the UK is fighting their fight, because they don't understand what they are fighting for.
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That's half true. I think the fact that our own government allows so much illegal immigration by not cracking down on employers who offer way less than minimum wage with terrible working conditions (modern slavery) is a much bigger problem personally. Take the Calais camp. You think these African guys are queuing up to risk life and limb by throwing themselves on the back of a lorry because our benefits system is so much more generous than France's or Germany's? German social security is infinitely better than ours. They queue up because they know they can come here and work on the black. Nobody ever talks about this.

The other aspect to all this is that we're moving into a time where low and medium skilled jobs are going to disappear if they aren't done cheaply. Again nobody is addressing this, but ultimately we're going to have a lot of joblessness if we don't. It's a lot easier to just keep asking people to work for a bowl of rice for now rather than talk about things like universal income. The Green party, to their credit, are as far as I know the only people to have discussed ideas like this. And they're pro-EU lefties who want to create more high skilled science jobs of course.

So, ultimately, freedom of movement is promoting job growth but wage stagnation which is the best we can hope for until some fecker proposes something better. And the EU isn't the cause of this problem. Automation, artificial intelligence, new manufacturing methods etc are causing it. And meanwhile the EU is at least protecting your basic rights unlike our own extremely right wing government who will sell you down the river at the first opportunity.
 
712 said:
It doesn't matter in the slightest who is in the negotiating team. None of the prospective leaders will allow free movement, end of negotiation.

Although there was one European leader, I forget which sorry, who said a deal without free movement might be possible if the British paid enough money.
He was trying and failing to hide his amusement as he said it though.
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Control of borders is a red line, because it was this specific issue that let to the Brexit vote. And so when negotiations commence, it has to be stressed by us very clearly that we will have control of our borders. This issue is not negotiable. Then the EU will have to go away and decide among themselves what the consequences will be. They'll have to be very careful how they restrict us in trade in order not to cause terrible harm to their own economy.
 
712 said:
It doesn't matter in the slightest who is in the negotiating team. None of the prospective leaders will allow free movement, end of negotiation.

Although there was one European leader, I forget which sorry, who said a deal without free movement might be possible if the British paid enough money.
He was trying and failing to hide his amusement as he said it though.
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I think the EU commission feels more strongly about that than the some of the key member states who have to weigh the domestic politics. The principle may not change but I can see concessions.

If the EU wants to hold together it needs to reform otherwise we'll see a sad state of affairs as the right leaning euro sceptic parties become empowered. It's hard to see it going any other direction
 
TwoSheds said:
That's half true. I think the fact that our own government allows so much illegal immigration by not cracking down on employers who offer way less than minimum wage with terrible working conditions (modern slavery) is a much bigger problem personally. Take the Calais camp. You think these African guys are queuing up to risk life and limb by throwing themselves on the back of a lorry because our benefits system is so much more generous than France's or Germany's? German social security is infinitely better than ours. They queue up because they know they can come here and work on the black. Nobody ever talks about this.

The other aspect to all this is that we're moving into a time where low and medium skilled jobs are going to disappear if they aren't done cheaply. Again nobody is addressing this, but ultimately we're going to have a lot of joblessness if we don't. It's a lot easier to just keep asking people to work for a bowl of rice for now rather than talk about things like universal income. The Green party, to their credit, are as far as I know the only people to have discussed ideas like this. And they're pro-EU lefties who want to create more high skilled science jobs of course.
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Left wing people should wonder why they suddenly find themselves on the same side as Goldman Sachs. Do they really want the same Britain? And they should wonder why they find themselves hooking up with the antidemocrats.

So, ultimately, freedom of movement is promoting job growth but wage stagnation which is the best we can hope for until some fecker proposes something better. And the EU isn't the cause of this problem. Automation, artificial intelligence, new manufacturing methods etc are causing it. And meanwhile the EU is at least protecting your basic rights unlike our own extremely right wing government who will sell you down the river at the first opportunity.
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But as an independent UK, you can at least vote out the extremely right wing government. That's not possibly withe the extremely right wing EU-government.

I'm not that pessimistic about automation etc. It costs jobs, but it also creates wealth and jobs. To keep people working, you've got to produce high value goods that require skilled workers, so you've got to invest in people and their skills. Not every one has the brains to do the number crunching behind automation, but a lot of people have the brains and hands to make beautiful things rich people from Europe, the Middle-East and China want to have. The UK isn't producing and exporting enough, it's become dependent on the financial sector, but a financial sector has to feed off something real, like production of goods people want to own or services people enjoy.

It reminds me of what an old right wing politician said during Occupy Wall Street, he said those people were just jealous of the Cadillacs of succesful people. He was living in the past, successfull people don't buy Cadillacs anymore. If your succesfull your not going to buy a 50's engine in a 20's chassis skrewed together by 2010's working poor in of their 2 or 3 jobs they need to have to pay the poor. The Chinese and Middle Eastern successful or otherwise rich people prefer a Volkswagen over a Cadillac because they are made by highly paid, highly skilled, jobsecure, devoted German workers. The future of manual labour is in the expensive high quality goods. Not just cars, but boats, furniture, clothes, anything the ever growing number of rich people want is generally of high quality and made by skilled people with their hands.

To stay in the automotive sector: Britain has Brilliant engineers dominating F1, producing the most coveted traditional sportscars and luxury cars of the highest handbuilt quality, they're also producing the most innovative hybrids. But all this high tech, the knowledge and skill in production is not trickling down into real mass production. I think Britain should start mass producing and exporting again, and a lower Pound Sterling only helps. This also had to happen if the UK had remained a member of the EU, the Brexit only makes it more urgent.
 
Dr. Funkenstein said:
Left wing people should wonder why they suddenly find themselves on the same side as Goldman Sachs. Do they really want the same Britain? And they should wonder why they find themselves hooking up with the antidemocrats.
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And Brexit voters should wonder why they suddenly find themselves on the same side as Donald Trump and Vladmir Putin. Do they really want the same Britain?

See, two can play at that stupid game.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Control of borders is a red line, because it was this specific issue that let to the Brexit vote. And so when negotiations commence, it has to be stressed by us very clearly that we will have control of our borders. This issue is not negotiable. Then the EU will have to go away and decide among themselves what the consequences will be. They'll have to be very careful how they restrict us in trade in order not to cause terrible harm to their own economy.
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It seems abundantly clear that full access to the common market requires freedom of movement.
The only concessions I see is getting are on things like the 10% tariff on cars. The Germans won't want that hitting BMW, VW and Merc sales.
 
Once article 50 is triggered the EU can wait 2 years and let trade happen on WTO rules. Meanwhile any business to whom EU access matters will shuffle across.

BMWs costing 10% more won't effect the wealthy, they are a presige brand with a price to match. Vauxalls or Nissans costing 10% more the a Peugeot or Fiat or Seat will be a bigger deal
 
Pexbo said:
All the above were happy to let the Caf know how they voted in the Referendum thread.
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I ended up voting remain actually. I work in the city and like all the benefits that cheap labour brings to me. I like the cheap cleaning service, the cheap car wash and what not.

While I Idealistically agree with most of the leave arguments, none of that affects me. I go private for treatment, dont need a council flat or a school place. Also, most of those who suffer due to EU are northerner labour voters so I could comfortably say feck 'em.
 
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AshfordLad said:
I ended up voting remain actually. I work in the city and like all the benefits that cheap labour brings to me. I like the cheap cleaning service, the cheap car wash and what not.

While I Idealistically agree with most of the leave arguments, none of that affects me. I go private for treatment, dont need a council flat or a school place. Also, most of those who suffer due to EU are northerner labour voting cnuts so I could comfortably say feck 'em.
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You sound like a nice chap.
 
AshfordLad said:
I ended up voting remain actually. I work in the city and like all the benefits that cheap labour brings to me. I like the cheap cleaning service, the cheap car wash and what not.

While I Idealistically agree with most of the leave arguments, none of that affects me. I go private for treatment, dont need a council flat or a school place. Also, most of those who suffer due to EU are northerner labour voters so I could comfortably say feck 'em.
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I did wonder where all this concern for UK came from, ever since thatch people have had an "I'm alright Jack" attitude or "as long as I'm alright" way of thinking. And despite "My Country" getting fecked over I doubt anyone would care if there own security was guaranteed.

Having said that, I do hope you land on your arse one day
 
Pexbo said:
You sound like a nice chap.
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At least he's honest and understands what the EU is about. It's for people like him. He works in the City, so probably he's a parasite by profession. The good news is he will be out of a job soon, because the UK isn't big enough to feed all those parasites by itself.
 
Interesting that there's very little talk regarding FTSE 100 at a 5 year high and the 250 recovering nicely. It seems the biggest hit market is Italy.
 
Dr. Funkenstein said:
At least he's honest and understands what the EU is about. It's for people like him. He works in the City, so probably he's a parasite by profession. The good news is he will be out of a job soon, because the UK isn't big enough to feed all those parasites by itself.
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I'm working poor and voted remain and I suspect most like me did. The two groups who most voted out were pensioners and the unemployed, people who don't work, people with nothing to lose. Oh and the racists
 
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