Who was worse, Moyes or Van Gaal?

Who did a worse job?

  • Total voters
    716
Pogue Mahone said:
Not even close?

Overall
Van Gaal's win % was worse than Moyes (52% v 53%).
We scored fewer goals per game under him than Moyes (1.29 vs 1.6) The worst in the history of the club!

2015/16
Van Gaal oversaw a season with the joint highest number of games in which we didn't score (one more than under Moyes)
He had our worst ever PL goal difference (7 worse than Moyes)
We made the most backward passes of any team in the PL
We made more fouls than any other team in the league

Those last four stats came from his second season in charge, when he had had the sort of time and money to invest in the team that Moyes could only have dreamed of. A campaign where Liverpool, Chelsea and City all fired their managers and Leicester emerged as champions. Leicester!
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Thats rubbish though. Moyes had the exact same opportunities as Van Gaal did. That he chose not to spend the money is his own fault and even then he bought two players for a combined £65m and broke our transfer record doing so. I don't think 'money spent' absolves Moyes at all.

Van Gaal played dour football that made us awful to watch, but at the very least it was part of a plan - one thats worked for him in the past - to win football matches. Under him we finished 4th, qualifying for the Champions League, and 5th on goal difference. Under Moyes we finished 7th. Under Van Gaal we won the FA Cup, under Moyes we won nothing.

Under Van Gaal we witnessed the emergence of players like Rashford, Fosu-Mensah, Lingard, and CBJ under Moyes we got Januzaj for about half a season.

The goal stats and win percentages don't favour Van Gaal, then again Moyes had the advantage of a fitter, fresher, and better Rooney and RVP. They might not have been particularly good in the Moyes season either, but they were a damn sight better than the quality of striker that we had to put up with under Van Gaal.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Not even close?

Overall
Van Gaal's win % was worse than Moyes (52% v 53%).
We scored fewer goals per game under him than Moyes (1.29 vs 1.6) The worst in the history of the club!

2015/16
Van Gaal oversaw a season with the joint highest number of games in which we didn't score (one more than under Moyes)
He had our worst ever PL goal difference (7 worse than Moyes)
We made the most backward passes of any team in the PL
We made more fouls than any other team in the league

Those last four stats came from his second season in charge, when he had had the sort of time and money to invest in the team that Moyes could only have dreamed of. A campaign where Liverpool, Chelsea and City all fired their managers and Leicester emerged as champions. Leicester!
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You're wasting your time mate. People will ignore all of that stuff because of their irrational hatred for Moyes...that what it boils down to.
 
Moyes hands down. It cannot get any worse than a Man Utd coach stating that we should aspire to be like City, that Liverpool are favourites at a fixture at OT and that Rio/Vidic should learn off Jagielka!
 
Moyes.

He performed 1/10 in every aspect of his job. The transfer market where he took a holiday throughout, the matches, the tactics, his hair. Just all very bad.

LvG was dreadful too. But with a CL finish in his first season and an FA Cup win in his second, he wasn't quite as bad. But very boring and out of touch.
 
LvG atleast had an idea of what to do, alright it didn't work as well as he thought it would but he was but it did work.

Moyes seemed like he had no clue how to win a football match at times, that game with all the crosses into a basically empty box leaps out as the prime example.
 
pixel said:
I'd agree with the op. Both of them were terrible, but with moyes we always kinda knew that it was going to be a huge risk. Nobody thought of him as a great coach who would bring in a new style of play or summat.
Lvg came with a quite some reputation. I remember the German guys, (Balu I think it was) who said we could be in for a disappointment with Lvg. But most of us chose to focus on his work with barca, or even the success he had with bayern. It felt like we were getting a coach who would be worthy of United, someone who could improve our style of play. From that perspective it was a total disaster. Plus he was backed heavily in the transfer market.
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Yeah I'll agree Van Gaal was the bigger let down. We went into his second season talking about the possibility of maybe extending his contact. Moyes was just never cut out for it. I'd still say on balance though that Moyes was worse.
 
Sadly I have to go with Van Gaal..
I had no hopes for Moyes but had some with Van Gaal so it´s that crazy Dutchman for me..
 
Moyes.

He did nothing in his first summer as opposed to Van Gaal, who at least tried to change something. By that I mean buying and selling players. Or by introducing a discernible style of play. Under Van Gaal our players actually played like a team that was coached. We were boring and often shite, but at least structured with some semblance of identity.

We couldn't string three passes together under Moyes. We were regularly embarrassed by almost every side in the top half of the division. He had a title-winning squad in the summer of 2013 that needed a new left back and two midfielders. He added Fellaini, Mata and an upcoming Januzaj to the squad and floundered. His comments to the press were generally stupid and he was quick to pass the buck.

Van Gaal at least arrested the slump in his first season here and went on to win the FA Cup, a great trophy that we hadn't won in a very long time. And when things were going tits up, he just about managed to wangle his way through the crisis and make something out of the season. Moyes on the other hand just dropped his pants and allowed our season to fall off a cliff.

I've never been so disenchanted with football like I was in that season under Moyes. Every game against a remotely acceptable side was, in my mind, a guaranteed defeat. Under Van Gaal, I genuinely went in to the majority of games expecting a good result. I didn't expect to be entertained, though, and I guess that's the biggest gripe people have with his tenure.

I'm probably a touch biased because I did and still do like Van Gaal as a bloke. I think he's genuine, grafts his arse off and believes in his methods (to a fault). Moyes is just a condesending, entitled arsehole that behaved like a big baby throughout his time here and even moreso since he's left. There isn't a single positive to be taken from his time at United. Januzaj signing a new contract, perhaps.
 
It's Van Gaal for me. Simply because he was there longer and was taking us backwards again. The football wasn't good under Moyes but it wasn't as soul destroying as what we played last season. And that was Van Gaal's team. For all the talk of how well he did getting rid of deadwood he saddled us with players worse or just as bad.
 
Van Gaal was shit, but at at least he knew what he wanted to do. He wasn't able to pull it off, but at least he had a plan.

Moyes on the other hand was your classical deer caught in the headlights.
 
Leroy The Red said:
It's a tough one, statistically Moyes was worse but when you factor in the state of the PL during their respective reigns you could argue LVG was far worse.
Moyes was a coward, said self defeating things, felt sorry for himself and generally spent 9 months here afraid of his own shadow.
LVG spent a lot of money but produced football worse than what it was under Moyes. He was stubborn, sometimes downright idiotic but at least he had confidence in himself and at times was quite funny. He was also tactically superior to Moyes, who's record against the better sides was laughable. Plus he won the FA Cup.
I personally found myself more angry at LVG than at Moyes but maybe that's because I expected a lot more of LVG.

I think overall all things considered Moyes was worse but LVG angered me more, there.....
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Statistically, Van Gaal was worse actually.
 
The Moyes appointment will surely go down as one of the most catastrophic choices any board has ever made in the history of any sport. Especially when the paradigm of Liverpool with Souness and Roy Evans was there for all to see. Yet somehow when the crucial moment arrived the football experts on our board opted for introversion, chose tradition over quality and made an assessment of the squad that couldn't be further from reality even if it had been made by a 10 year old United fan. In this sense, whenever you ask a question like this, the vast majority will point towards Moyes because they feel, and to an extend rightfully so, that the Scot represented everything that was wrong about the club during his tenure at OT. Going by the same logic, LvG came to clear the mess but ultimately failed to create a side that could play his style of football at a top level. But these things happen often in sports.

At the end of the day, LvG left a taste of silverware behind him. What did Moyes leave? Rooney sitting on a fat contract plus two players in Mata and Fellaini we have no use for. At least Bastian will find a club by the end of the transfer window, the other two are stuck here with no one willing to pay anywhere neer the fees we paid for them or cover their wages.

LvG failed because he tried to build a side around the "big names" he inherited. A younger version of LvG would have probably taken his axe and he would have chopped several heads after his first season. As it proved the United job, at his age, was one job too many for him.

Performances and the quality of our football have been poor under both of them. Posting stats of back passes, useless possession etc. to paint a prettier picture of Moyes is pointless. The 0-3 defeats at OT to Liverpool and City, the game in Greece against Olympiacos and the infamous "82 crosses" game against Fulham were the lowest points United has fell in terms of tactics, team spirit and general direction since the late 80s. Trying to turn every game into a one goal contest isn't pleasing to the eye but, at least, it's a plan.
 
From a Liverpool fan mate of mine:

I like LVG more than I did Moyes!

I think LVG may have been worse! However he did win us a cup so wasn't all bad. Plus promoted a few youngsters.
 
Not even close for me.

Lvg was poor but at least he took us into the CL and then missed out by a whisker. Moyes took us to seventh.

Lvg generally bought good players (notably Martial) and left a good squad-it's noticeable that Mourinho seems happy to stick with the players he inherited, suggesting he thinks the squad is generally strong. Moyes bought Fellaini and Mata, both of whom have been poor.

Lvg played eight games against Liverpool and City and only lost one. Moyes played four league games against them and lost them all, by an aggregate of 11-1 (the 1 being a last-minute goal).
 
I have misgivings about how good the team Moyes inherited was but there's no excuse for taking champions from 1st to 7th. 1st to 4th and he gets a second season and who knows what would happen. Louis van Gaal didn't cover himself in glory overall despite winning the FA Cup and earning United a return to the Champions League, a return they wasted it ought to be said. Under both, United played football you wouldn't pay to watch. I fell asleep during some of United's games last season. Moyes big game record was abysmal, van Gaal's was respectable. For Moyes, it was job that he was unqualified for. Van Gaal was qualified for the United job but it was one big job too many, akin to when a player plays for one season too long. Overall, i'd say Moyes did a worse job.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
Moyes was worse, yet Van Gaal somehow was an ever bigger disappointment.
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Because people expected LVG to achieve something, seeing him able to to get top 4 in his first season and hearing his big talk (his fault).

Many people knew Moyes would be shite from the get go, so there was wishful thinking, but never expectation thus less disappointment.
 
Moyes was easily worse. Remember the state of us against the bigger sides and his aspirations to reach City's level. He was an absolute cretin who caused massive embarrassment to the club. LvG had to pick up Moyes' mess after all. LvG outstayed his welcome to some extent, but he did win us an FA Cup.
 
Moyes. Humiliated by every big team home and away except arsenal.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Not even close?

Overall
Van Gaal's win % was worse than Moyes (52% v 53%).
We scored fewer goals per game under him than Moyes (1.29 vs 1.6) The worst in the history of the club!

2015/16
Van Gaal oversaw a season with the joint highest number of games in which we didn't score (one more than under Moyes)
He had our worst ever PL goal difference (7 worse than Moyes)
We made the most backward passes of any team in the PL
We made more fouls than any other team in the league

Those last four stats came from his second season in charge, when he had had the sort of time and money to invest in the team that Moyes could only have dreamed of. A campaign where Liverpool, Chelsea and City all fired their managers and Leicester emerged as champions. Leicester!
Click to expand...

Those stats don't mean much mate when you consider in Moyes season in charge we only won 2 games against teams that finished in the top 10 that year. And only scrappy home wins vs Arsenal and Stoke. Two wins vs decent teams in an entire season, let that sink in for a minute. The vast majority of Moyes points haul came against bottom half sides which you would expect a team who had finished the previous two season with 89 points to beat anyway.

And then when you add the fact he inherited a team that was a points accumulating machine and that had ran away with the league the year before 3rd-4th at least should have been a tap-in. And yet we scraped 7th due to Moyes mismanagement.

I think Van Gaal messed up many things during his time at United not least assembling a relatively poor squad. But any point totals he earned were basically done with his own team. Had he managed Sir Alex's side right after his retirement we would have came 4th at least and comfortably in my opinion. And conversely had we allowed Moyes the opportunity to build a side to the extent Van Gaal did i shudder to think where he would have finished.
 
Moyes without question, why would anyone think differently.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
At least Bastian will find a club by the end of the transfer window, the other two are stuck here with no one willing to pay anywhere neer the fees we paid for them or cover their wages.
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There's no club going to be mug enough to cover Schweinsteigers wages. Or Rojo's.
 
Van Gaal.

Moyes got absolutely no backing in what was already going to be a very tough job. Van Gaal has no excuse for finishing outside the top 4 in a season where Chelsea absolutely crumbled and he'd spent the money he had.
 
On paper, Van Gaal was probably worse. Invested loads of money and played some of the dullest football ever seen at Old Trafford. However, he did much better in the big matches. There was always a chance of winning away to a big rival and the FA Cup win gave us a reason to celebrate. Those things were unthinkable under Moyes. The latter was completely out of his depth and received a few absolute maulings in the big games. Both utterly shite managers during their time here but I think Van Gaal's big game record, the emergence of Rashford and the FA Cup win ultimately made me look at his reign slightly more favourably. So Moyes for me.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Thats rubbish though. Moyes had the exact same opportunities as Van Gaal did. That he chose not to spend the money is his own fault and even then he bought two players for a combined £65m and broke our transfer record doing so. I don't think 'money spent' absolves Moyes at all.
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That's not rubbish at all. Van Gaal had more transfer windows to do business in and more money to spend. He categorically had more time and money available to build a great team than his predecessor. That shouldn't even be up for debate.

Van Gaal played dour football that made us awful to watch, but at the very least it was part of a plan - one thats worked for him in the past - to win football matches. Under him we finished 4th, qualifying for the Champions League, and 5th on goal difference. Under Moyes we finished 7th. Under Van Gaal we won the FA Cup, under Moyes we won nothing.

Under Van Gaal we witnessed the emergence of players like Rashford, Fosu-Mensah, Lingard, and CBJ under Moyes we got Januzaj for about half a season.
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At the same point in Januzaj's career we were all as excited about him as we are right now about any of our more recent academy graduates. Seems strange that you're absolving Van Gaal of any blame for him not developing on the promise he showed under Moyes. Does Mourinho get a pass if Rashford et al are left out in the cold this season?

Besides, academy players mature at different points in time. Moye showed - with Januzaj - that he was willing to give youth a chance. He just didn't have the same players available as Van Gaal (who, let's not forget only gave Rashford his debut because of a freak injury to Will Keane)

The goal stats and win percentages don't favour Van Gaal, then again Moyes had the advantage of a fitter, fresher, and better Rooney and RVP. They might not have been particularly good in the Moyes season either, but they were a damn sight better than the quality of striker that we had to put up with under Van Gaal.
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And who's fault is that? Shouldn't a manager who spent as much Money as Van Gaal did have the squad he wants by his second full season in charge?
 
Moyes was absolutely out of his depth and turned a championship winning side into Everton mark 2. LVG love him or hate him brought some sort of stability to the club, after Moyes had wrecked it , but it was clear that his style of football lost a lot of the team. They just looked bored and frustrated by always passing back or to the side.
I don't hold a grudge about either managers for the record and it hasn't hurt us by experiencing some bad seasons, older fans (like myself) will remember us before Fergies successful teams and it made us hungrier to succeed in the long run. I believe this side we have at the moment and certainly the manager we have at present will really look to challenge for the title. It does feel completely different to how it has been over the last few years, I can't explain it but I'm very confident that this team will perform very well over time.
 
How's that even debatable?

LVG indeed made us looking most boring team, unable to score goals, but he qualified for the CL in his first season (missed out CL on goal difference in his second season), won FA Cup, made us very competitive against top teams (I believe we had the best results against top5/top6 in both seasons) and promoted few youngster along the way. He was a good tactician in those important games, but overall he's so stubborn to his philosophy which simply didn't work. Top manager should adapt to the players, not make them play in one, particular way only.

Moyes on the other hand was simply out depth on every possible department: losing all the important games, no plan whatsoever regarding transfer business (overpaying for Fellaini on last day of the transfer window, while he had a lower buy-out clause till the end of July). Basically he implemented his mid-table mentality to our team with his famous quotes about "trying to make it as hard as possible for Newcastle at Old Trafford" or "aspiring to be City's level". That 10 months were just a miserable nightmare.

Overall, I'll remember LVG era rather fondly as he was the manager we needed at that time, someone proven who will rebuild the morale, attract some top players without CL football and would install his confidence to the team. Which he did. Football wasn't great as his philosophy didn't work, but he left us with a trophy and kept us close to the top (level points with City & very good results vs top teams). While all Moyes has done was draining players out of their confidence and talking his mid-table shite while finishing 7th.
 
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Alock1 said:
Van Gaal.

Moyes got absolutely no backing in what was already going to be a very tough job. Van Gaal has no excuse for finishing outside the top 4 in a season where Chelsea absolutely crumbled and he'd spent the money he had.
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This is a fair point... that Van Gaal didn't finish in the top 4 last year is an absolute joke considering the money spent and the standard of the rest of the league.

Plus, he got us dumped out of the easiest CL group we could have asked for.
 
acnumber9 said:
There's no club going to be mug enough to cover Schweinsteigers wages. Or Rojo's.
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Let's see, there are reports that he will find a club either in Germany or Italy by the end of the transfer window. The club and Mourinho are also very calm about the whole situation, after the initial storm in the media, while Bastian has kept quiet too. These things indicate that he will probably find a new destination to end his career. As for Rojo, he's nowhere near the wages the others get, so he really isn't such a big problem for us.
 
LVG managed 4th and 5th with a lot of investment, Moyes managed 7th with only Fellaini to add. It seems Moyes might even have the edge here but then again, it sounds like its his own fault that we only signed Fellaini. One thing I will say though is that LVG seemed to know what he wanted to do, just that what he wanted to do was boring and not suited to PL. Moyes on the other hand seemed clueless. Anyone remember that game with like 80 crosses?
 
Both were awful but with Moyes it felt that every match we played we would get a thumping. With LVG at least I never felt we would be humiliated on the pitch. Yeah the football was mind-numbing but that was slightly better than the stick on a shit served by Moyes.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
Let's see, there are reports that he will find a club either in Germany or Italy by the end of the transfer window. The club and Mourinho are also very calm about the whole situation, after the initial storm in the media, while Bastian has kept quiet too. These things indicate that he will probably find a new destination to end his career. As for Rojo, he's nowhere near the wages the others get, so he really isn't such a big problem for us.
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And yet they're still here. There's been reports of clubs wanting Mata and Fellaini too. Mata is the one who'd find a club easiest out of them all. If Schweinsteiger leaves it will likely be us having to give him away or pay him off to subsidise his wages because nobody will be paying him to play for 20 minutes a game for half a season.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
This is a fair point... that Van Gaal didn't finish in the top 4 last year is an absolute joke considering the money spent and the standard of the rest of the league.

Plus, he got us dumped out of the easiest CL group we could have asked for.
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Forgot to mention that. They both had one season of CL football and we looked better (and went deeper) in that competition under Moyes than we did under Vangle. Against tougher opponents.
 
Moyes was far far worse. We had some bright spots under LVG, we won a lot of big games against our rivals and won the FA cup.
The money spent issue doesn't wash. Was had money to spend, he just refused to cause he was dithering.
 
Moyes was backed. He and Woodward collectively made a hash of that summer window, but we had money and were more than willing to throw it around had we (Moyes?) been more decisive.

We allowed him to break our transfer record for Mata in the January, let's not forget.
 
Moyes and as others said it's not even close.

LvG had very good record against top sides. He finished 4th in his first season with arguably worse squad that needed rebuilding. Then next year he finished level points with the 4th, won FA cup. With Moyes we were 7th pretty much the whole season with a championship winning squad.

Both were crap but at least LvG delivered a 4th place finish and a cup.
 
For all the talk of Moyes not having a clue it kind of ignores that despite being confident in what he said neither did Van Gaal. He signed players to play 3-5-2 and then abandoned it after about 6 games. He signed Rojo because he was left footed. He whinged endlessly about not having enough pace in attack yet sold every quick player we had and didn't replace them. Maybe it's because it's more fresh in the memory that I'm judging Van Gaal differently because I didn't like Moyes either but right now I'd say Van Gaal annoyed me more.
 
RedPed said:
You're wasting your time mate. People will ignore all of that stuff because of their irrational hatred for Moyes...that what it boils down to.
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And yet the guy you are replying to freely admits he hates Van Gaal with a passion, so is his opinion that Van Gaal was worse also borne out of an irrational hatred for the man?

Pogue Mahone said:
Which made me hate Van Gaal with a passion.
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Maybe, maybe not. But it's also quite likely he just genuinely believes Van Gaal was worse just as many people seem to think Moyes was worse. And hatred isn't that much of a factor in their thinking.
 
Kag said:
Moyes was backed. He and Woodward collectively made a hash of that summer window, but we had money and were more than willing to throw it around had we (Moyes?) been more decisive.

We allowed him to break our transfer record for Mata in the January, let's not forget.
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We've been spending money like it's going out of fashion since Fergie retired. Under both our most recent managers. Van Gaal spent a lot more money than Moyes, though. You simply couldn't have matched that level of spending in the two transfer windows Moyes had available to work in.
 
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