David Moyes | West Ham in talks with him for managerial job

That's created by results not by press conferences.

prath92, you really need to read up a bit on sports psychology. Yes getting results is obviously important but a positive attitude is also a large part of creating a winning mentality which contributes to that success to begin with. The physical and mental aspects are a cycle which feed one another.

Why do you think Alex Ferguson after a bad result would always state with a lot of confidence, "There will be an improvement/reaction next week, no doubt about that"? It was his way of sending a message 1) to the players of the higher standard they were expected to reach 2) to the next opponents they should be worried 3) to the world that he expected nothing less than a win. That is a winning mentality. And the result would almost invariably be that the players would raise their game, the opponent would shrink and United would win.

In contrast, when Moyes states Sunderland are in a relegation battle and the players he has aren't good enough, or sends out an unclear message about pressure and their poor league position, how does that affect his player confidence, encourage the opposition and where does it set expectations? It almost encourages the team to fail. And so they do.

Top sports players need that positive mental attitude to perform to the best of their ability and a good manager plays a large part in encouraging that.
 
Everything about him invokes an overwhelming feeling of misery. Listening to his press conferences used to be torture.
 
Jesus why can't we leave the guy alone

"we're in a relegation battle " he would be crazy to say anything else , they are in a relegation battle every season, change there managers like I change my socks ( once a month wether needed or not !! ) had a diabolical transfer window and only have 1 forward on the books ! What do you expect him to say , we are aiming for Europe !!

His players ARE shite and he DOES need new ones

Let's just leave him alone we have our own problems to deal with because the battle for the top 4 is going to be more difficult than ever before

Saying "we're in a relegation battle" before the seasons barely started shows everyone inside and outside the club that you have no belief you can do any better.

If you're a manager in any walk of life and you tell the staff below you that they're all shite and need replacing, what good does that do for the morale of your team and their respect for you?

He's a muppet.
 
I, for one, will never tire of this constant belittling of Moyes.

It's cathartic.

It somehow eases the pain from many years ago, akin to group therapy.

The people that come into these threads and say how tiresome it is should just avoid any thread to do with Moyes, frankly, because Moyes bashing is a fun and easy pasttime and the guy -deserves it-.
 
Rafa's "fachts" debacle is the perfect antidote to your ridiculous "press conferences make no difference to players, coaches, owners etc" argument. Just ask Steven Gerrard:



The fact that I've had to spell this out for you tells me all I need to know.

That is an extreme example. Rants from Rafa and Keegan mean nothing. In those cases they made a series of attacks against a manager (SAF). If rafa had said literally anything else, no one would have remembered it at all

Unless you think that Moyes' comments were the same as this, no one will care about it.

So no, it has no relevance here at all. Zero.

prath92, you really need to read up a bit on sports psychology. Yes getting results is obviously important but a positive attitude is also a large part of creating a winning mentality which contributes to that success to begin with. The physical and mental aspects are a cycle which feed one another.

Why do you think Alex Ferguson after a bad result would always state with a lot of confidence, "There will be an improvement/reaction next week, no doubt about that"? It was his way of sending a message 1) to the players of the higher standard they were expected to reach 2) to the next opponents they should be worried 3) to the world that he expected nothing less than a win. That is a winning mentality. And the result would almost invariably be that the players would raise their game, the opponent would shrink and United would win.

In contrast, when Moyes states Sunderland are in a relegation battle and the players he has aren't good enough, or sends out an unclear message about pressure and their poor league position, how does that affect his player confidence, encourage the opposition and where does it set expectations? It almost encourages the team to fail. And so they do.

Top sports players need that positive mental attitude to perform to the best of their ability and a good manager plays a large part in encouraging that.

Firstly, its abundantly clear he is maybe 1% of SAF (if we are being generous)

Secondly, nobody gets motivated after a loss because of press conferences. At united it may work because losses arent very frequent. At Sunderland, its quite possible that they will lose maybe half their games every season. And there is no one thing you can say after a series of losses. Last year mourinho (someone who is 100 times the manager moyes is) struggled in his conferences after losses as he couldnt just blame refs. He had a conference where he just said "I have nothing to say"

Most of the encouragement would definitely be in the training. And plus as you yourself agreed, that was no negative comment either. So I dont even understand this whole nonsense, Im sorry.
 
That is an extreme example. Rants from Rafa and Keegan mean nothing. In those cases they made a series of attacks against a manager (SAF). If rafa had said literally anything else, no one would have remembered it at all

Unless you think that Moyes' comments were the same as this, no one will care about it.

So no, it has no relevance here at all. Zero.



Firstly, its abundantly clear he is maybe 1% of SAF (if we are being generous)

Secondly, nobody gets motivated after a loss because of press conferences. At united it may work because losses arent very frequent. At Sunderland, its quite possible that they will lose maybe half their games every season. And there is no one thing you can say after a series of losses. Last year mourinho (someone who is 100 times the manager moyes is) struggled in his conferences after losses as he couldnt just blame refs. He had a conference where he just said "I have nothing to say"

Most of the encouragement would definitely be in the training. And plus as you yourself agreed, that was no negative comment either. So I dont even understand this whole nonsense, Im sorry.
At this point I'd usually start talking about the importance of controlling narrative around a club but I'm sure it would go straight over your head. Hell, judging by your last post, Fergie himself could walk into your bedroom right now and recite the passage from his last book about how integral successfully managed press conferences were to his success and you'd still probably shake your head and string together a couple of incoherent paragraphs to convince yourself you're right. Thankfully for everyone following this thread, I'm not going to do that so you can enjoy your cognitive dissonance in peace.
 
At this point I'd usually start talking about the importance of controlling narrative around a club but I'm sure it would go straight over your head. Hell, judging by your last post, Fergie himself could walk into your bedroom right now and recite the passage from his last book about how integral successfully managed press conferences were to his success and you'd still probably shake your head and string together a couple of incoherent paragraphs to convince yourself you're right. Thankfully for everyone following this thread, I'm not going to do that so you can enjoy your cognitive dissonance in peace.

yeah sure. I would expect any one to understand that SAF is someone who is incomparable to anyone, (especially since I also mentioned it in my previous post) and that no one can be like him but clearly its something you dont grasp and you expect every manager to be at his level. So lets just leave it at that. Im glad you didnt create another nonsensical post though.
 
It's never his fault, huh? The Sociedad job, it wasn't his fault there either.

Of course the overall responsibility comes down to the manager and he will pay the price if they don't perform but if you have seen Sunderland's last 2 games where they were beating Palace however completely capitulated with silly defensive errors and the last game against West Brom where Defoe missed an absolute sitter, these things are outside of the Manager's control.
 
And?

What does that have to do with me commenting on how Moyes teams regularly start seasons?



It's amazing how Moyes keeps finding himself in these impossible situations that no manager on planet earth could do better in.

So just because Moyes had a bad spell at United, he is the only manager in these situations? Plenty of managers find themselves in these situations. Didn't he win his first game at United 4-1? He started with an Everton side struggling with relegation, its always going to be tough at first. Your pointed out that Moyes has bad starts yet Sunderland have had bad starts in the majority of the last 4 seasons.

Of course Moyes should do better and no one mentioned remarks about 'no other manager could do better' apart from you. I simply pointed out that some mistakes on the field are outside of the manager's control.
 
He doesn't help himself. I'm not even a United fan and I can't stand the guy. To have such little self-awareness and tendency to shift blame is a poor combination.

I do think he's a decent manager but getting the United job went to his head and he overestimated his abilities as a result.

I agree that he wasn't good enough at United but he probably still feels that he was promised time at United however wasn't given it. Saying that he does mention it of his own accord in the press so probably needs to focus on his future plans. However some of the personal insults on here are just pathetic and shows people being hypocritical when they keep referring to his past mistakes. I mean there was even a post on here somewhere analysing the Everton wage bill:lol:
 
Yeah, he's already told us that. And that players are not good enough to play for him, and that he cannot hold them by the hand and they need to be held responsible. Brilliant man manager.

Truth is it's always largely manager's fault when a team is doing so badly. If he came out and said he will try to fix it, he made mistakes etc., I don't think people would hate him. It's that he then comes out and says stuff like that he is a CL manager, players are not good enough and he can do nothing etc. is why people seriously dislike him. I mean it's the same David Moyes who put all credit behind Sociedad win over Barcelona on him saying 'I showed out there what David Moyes can do', despite the fact they almost always beat them at Anoeta anyway. He's a maniac and very unlikeable. I think people will react differently when/if van Gaal manages his next team. He was a maniac too but a) not as deluded, b) reasonably likeable, c) successful.

I do agree that he hasn't helped himself in the press with this remarks however he has also stated that he takes responsibility for the defeats when he managed here. I wouldn't judge all his man management attributes based on a few remarks, seemed to have a decent relationship with players at Everton.
 
I do agree that he hasn't helped himself in the press with this remarks however he has also stated that he takes responsibility for the defeats when he managed here. I wouldn't judge all his man management attributes based on a few remarks, seemed to have a decent relationship with players at Everton.

Yep, because they were not 'letting him down' and since his third or fourth season the entire team was basically his players who he had brought. A manager coming to a new team and immediately saying that he needs to replace at least half of the players because they are not good enough, which happened both at United and Sunderland, is really in poor taste. Another factor is IMO that he started to believe in himself too much after Man Utd move, he seemed relatively modest prior to that but has gone completely mental in terms of ego since. He genuinely seems to consider himself one of top 10 managers in the world, I feel.
 
Secondly, nobody gets motivated after a loss because of press conferences. At united it may work because losses arent very frequent. At Sunderland, its quite possible that they will lose maybe half their games every season. And there is no one thing you can say after a series of losses. Last year mourinho (someone who is 100 times the manager moyes is) struggled in his conferences after losses as he couldnt just blame refs. He had a conference where he just said "I have nothing to say"

Yet Moyes was the same at United, saying he needed new players, that Liverpool were coming to Old Trafford as favourites, that we needed to aspire to Man City's level. So his negativity does not change across clubs or appear proportional to the frequency of wins/losses... it's just... Moyes.

Mourinho's failure to positively manage press conferences last season was a bit of a special case because 1) Chelsea were in uncharted territory suddenly losing so many games and 2) he had lost half the dressing room. So yes, he was in a quandary about what to say.

As you say, Sunderland are used to losing so Moyes could easily follow Mark Hughes' lead at Stoke and at least feign a message of strength and confidence to try and break the cycle of defeat. Instead Moyes propagates it.


Hell, judging by your last post, Fergie himself could walk into your bedroom right now and recite the passage from his last book about how integral successfully managed press conferences were to his success and you'd still probably shake your head...

Let's try it. I haven't got the book with me now but there are comments online...

@prath92

"For a manager, no matter the result, at a press conference you need to come out as the winner.

"You can kill yourself in a press conference... It’s an important part of your job."


~Alex Ferguson

One of many Moyes failures, prath92?
 
Yep, because they were not 'letting him down' and since his third or fourth season the entire team was basically his players who he had brought. A manager coming to a new team and immediately saying that he needs to replace at least half of the players because they are not good enough, which happened both at United and Sunderland, is really in poor taste. Another factor is IMO that he started to believe in himself too much after Man Utd move, he seemed relatively modest prior to that but has gone completely mental in terms of ego since. He genuinely seems to consider himself one of top 10 managers in the world, I feel.

I can't remember him saying he needs to replace half the players however I know he said Sunderland would continue to fight against relegation which perhaps isn't what you want to hear as a fan. I don't think the bold part is true, I'm not sure how you can say he believes that based on a few comments. He probably did get a taste of high level management and wanted to continue with that however he would have been better perhaps going to a job like Celtic if he wanted further CL experience.
 
I can't remember him saying he needs to replace half the players however I know he said Sunderland would continue to fight against relegation which perhaps isn't what you want to hear as a fan. I don't think the bold part is true, I'm not sure how you can say he believes that based on a few comments. He probably did get a taste of high level management and wanted to continue with that however he would have been better perhaps going to a job like Celtic if he wanted further CL experience.

That's assuming Celtic would even entertain employing this bumbling idiot. Brendan Rodgers is ten times the manager Moyes will ever be (and I have no love for that white-teethed scouse bellend!).

I wish I got the financial benefits for being as terrible at my job as Moyes does at his.

The man epitomises misery and depression.
 
I can't remember him saying he needs to replace half the players however I know he said Sunderland would continue to fight against relegation which perhaps isn't what you want to hear as a fan. I don't think the bold part is true, I'm not sure how you can say he believes that based on a few comments. He probably did get a taste of high level management and wanted to continue with that however he would have been better perhaps going to a job like Celtic if he wanted further CL experience.

Well, he did say that he considers himself a Champions League level manager and also that he should be managing at the top, because that's what he witnessed at Man Utd. Well considering United are definitely a top 10 club (not team), it leads me to believe that he indeed sees himself there or thereabouts.
 
I agree that he wasn't good enough at United but he probably still feels that he was promised time at United however wasn't given it. Saying that he does mention it of his own accord in the press so probably needs to focus on his future plans. However some of the personal insults on here are just pathetic and shows people being hypocritical when they keep referring to his past mistakes. I mean there was even a post on here somewhere analysing the Everton wage bill:lol:

I do see the undervaluation of the job he did at Everton, I personally think he did great there despite no trophies.
 
I really doubt that post match conferences make any differences to players, coaches, owners etc.

So you think if a manager effectively says in public that he thinks his current players are shit and that he needs to replace them, that wouldn't affect those players confidence and willingness to fight for him.

Jesus.
 
So just because Moyes had a bad spell at United, he is the only manager in these situations? Plenty of managers find themselves in these situations. Didn't he win his first game at United 4-1? He started with an Everton side struggling with relegation, its always going to be tough at first. Your pointed out that Moyes has bad starts yet Sunderland have had bad starts in the majority of the last 4 seasons.

No i didn't, see this confirms for me that you probably didn't follow that discussion all that closely before jumping in to defend poor Dave, someone else pointed out Moyes teams historically start slowly. I then agreed and commented that it's probably because of his training methods in pre-season. Sunderland having poor starts in previous seasons under other managers has feck all to do with that.

Of course Moyes should do better and no one mentioned remarks about 'no other manager could do better' apart from you. I simply pointed out that some mistakes on the field are outside of the manager's control.

Are you for real mate? This is your post that i replied to
Some of the mistakes on the pitch have been dreadful, no Manager would have been able to prevent those.

This follows the narrative over the last few years that many like to peddle that the United job was an impossible task that no manager could have succeeded in, in other words it wasn't Moyes fault. Much like now with people spouting similar guff about how Moyes has taken on an impossible task trying to keep Sunderland up. No manager could prevent his players from being so shit, relegation is inevitable etc. etc. In other words as usual it's not Moyes fault. Bullshit.
 
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Let's try it. I haven't got the book with me now but there are comments online...

@prath92

"For a manager, no matter the result, at a press conference you need to come out as the winner.

"You can kill yourself in a press conference... It’s an important part of your job."


~Alex Ferguson

One of many Moyes failures, prath92?
I appreciate the effort but I'd recommend simply ignoring the guy. To paraphrase the infamous Nigel Pearson, he's gone full Ostrich with this one.
 
I can't remember him saying he needs to replace half the players however I know he said Sunderland would continue to fight against relegation which perhaps isn't what you want to hear as a fan. I don't think the bold part is true, I'm not sure how you can say he believes that based on a few comments. He probably did get a taste of high level management and wanted to continue with that however he would have been better perhaps going to a job like Celtic if he wanted further CL experience.

“Ultimately you have to have good players on the pitch and, at the moment, we’re not getting enough good players on the pitch. We need to get a better team, it’s as simple as that. We need to get a team which can give us results.”

You are right he didn't say he needed to replace half his players, he actually said he needed to replace them all. Man management David Moyes style.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...oyes-sunderland-crystal-palace-premier-league
 
Surely, when he was interviewed for the job, he highlighted the positives of the squad? Did he go in and tell the chairman that all the players were shit, they were in a relegation battle and that it was a futile task to expect him to change anything for the better?
 
So you think if a manager effectively says in public that he thinks his current players are shit and that he needs to replace them, that wouldn't affect those players confidence and willingness to fight for him.

That's basically what he said about the MUFC team of champions whom he inherited, when he joined us.
He said that in the Summer there will be a major rebuild (ie. most of the current players will be sold/replaced).
I think that this rhetoric prompted Vidic and Evra to exit the sinking ship.

Did he also do this when he managed Real Sociedad?
 
That's basically what he said about the MUFC team of champions whom he inherited, when he joined us.
He said that in the Summer there will be a major rebuild (ie. most of the current players will be sold/replaced).
I think that this rhetoric prompted Vidic and Evra to exit the sinking ship.

Did he also do this when he managed Real Sociedad?

No idea mate but it wouldn't surprise me one bit. Thats Moyes modus operandi these days.
 
That's basically what he said about the MUFC team of champions whom he inherited, when he joined us.
He said that in the Summer there will be a major rebuild (ie. most of the current players will be sold/replaced
).
I think that this rhetoric prompted Vidic and Evra to exit the sinking ship.

Did he also do this when he managed Real Sociedad?

Sure he didn't know anything about the players, otherwise he'd have canned the lot of them in pre-season (going by his daft logic). They tell me this. I never realised he could do this. Like some bloke missing a TV, internet or access to tickets.

I'm surprised his head didn't fecking explode on the bench when Van Persie scored the first goal, an acrobatic kick, in the opening game of the season against Swansea. I'm only learning now what a good striker Van Persie PFA Player of the Year 2012 and PL Top Goalscorer 2013 really is...
 
No i didn't, see this confirms for me that you probably didn't follow that discussion all that closely before jumping in to defend poor Dave, someone else pointed out Moyes teams historically start slowly. I then agreed and commented that it's probably because of his training methods in pre-season. Sunderland having poor starts in previous seasons under other managers has feck all to do with that.

Are you for real mate? This is your post that i replied to

This follows the narrative over the last few years that many like to peddle that the United job was an impossible task that no manager could have succeeded in, in other words it wasn't Moyes fault. Much like now with people spouting similar guff about how Moyes has taken on an impossible task trying to keep Sunderland up. No manager could prevent his players from being so shit, relegation is inevitable etc. etc. In other words as usual it's not Moyes fault. Bullshit.

Oh please, 'jumping in to defend poor Dave', this shows your biased opinions. I was responding to your comments about the slow starts are down to his training methods, pointing out that it is common for other managers to also have slow starts so how is the slow start related to his training sessions exactly?

I was referring to the fact that players make mistakes on the field and these are not in the control of the manager. If you read my other posts I have clearly stated the ultimate responsibility falls to the manager. There is no narrative to pedal. I have clearly stated in other posts that Moyes wasn't good enough at United. Clearly your hatred for Moyes is affecting your arguments.
 
You are right he didn't say he needed to replace half his players, he actually said he needed to replace them all. Man management David Moyes style.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...oyes-sunderland-crystal-palace-premier-league

How on earth is saying you need a better team saying you need to replace the whole team? He is saying they need to improve which they do and he is saying that improvements are needed in January which they are to improve the team and make it better. He is clearly stating the squad needs improving and in the same article, Big Sam is saying saying he was concerned at the lack of signings. The article is stating the failure of summer recruitment is affecting their form and Moyes needs to take responsibility for that however he is not stating they need to change the whole squad. The fact he is alluding to they have some good players however not enough clearly reflects this point.
 
How on earth is saying you need a better team saying you need to replace the whole team? He is saying they need to improve which they do and he is saying that improvements are needed in January which they are to improve the team and make it better. He is clearly stating the squad needs improving and in the same article, Big Sam is saying saying he was concerned at the lack of signings. The article is stating the failure of summer recruitment is affecting their form and Moyes needs to take responsibility for that however he is not stating they need to change the whole squad. The fact he is alluding to they have some good players however not enough clearly reflects this point.
Maybe it's David Moyes that needs to improve. But nope, he never takes responsibility. Always the fault of everyone else.
 
So you think if a manager effectively says in public that he thinks his current players are shit and that he needs to replace them, that wouldn't affect those players confidence and willingness to fight for him.

Jesus.

That comment was in relation to what he said in the previous conference.
 
prath92, you really need to read up a bit on sports psychology. Yes getting results is obviously important but a positive attitude is also a large part of creating a winning mentality which contributes to that success to begin with. The physical and mental aspects are a cycle which feed one another.

Why do you think Alex Ferguson after a bad result would always state with a lot of confidence, "There will be an improvement/reaction next week, no doubt about that"? It was his way of sending a message 1) to the players of the higher standard they were expected to reach 2) to the next opponents they should be worried 3) to the world that he expected nothing less than a win. That is a winning mentality. And the result would almost invariably be that the players would raise their game, the opponent would shrink and United would win.

In contrast, when Moyes states Sunderland are in a relegation battle and the players he has aren't good enough, or sends out an unclear message about pressure and their poor league position, how does that affect his player confidence, encourage the opposition and where does it set expectations? It almost encourages the team to fail. And so they do.

Top sports players need that positive mental attitude to perform to the best of their ability and a good manager plays a large part in encouraging that.

No wonder Keane got fired, the guy hardly knew how to praise anybody bite