I bet importers are stocking up right now on euros/stock as the pound/euro is the best its been in weeks!
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
What was the result of the referendum of the number of constituencies that voted to leave v the number that voted to stay. does anyone know?
I guess thats what this will come down to now as the MPs will have to vote in line with their constituents.
I guess thats what this will come down to now as the MPs will have to vote in line with their constituents.
It might be because we don't have a standing constitution. Just statutes and there being no precedent.
£ is bound to crash again if, May calls a snap vote and the parliament agree to trigger it.
IMO, that's May's only option.
Surgeon sticks her own knife in.
Pound rising is not a bright side for me
Another option May has is, calling a snap GE.
In that case, she risks opening the door again to UKIP.
In that case, she risks opening the door again to UKIP.
I think thats what she will do - but I actually think her best option (not the one I want her to take) would be to call an election - to say she is going to the people for a mandate to trigger article 50 and she would expect any mp elected on that mandate to back it in a vote - given the state of labour she would probably walk the election with a very workable majority and then have 5 full years to take us out of europe and not have to face a vote too soon afterwards (should the negotiations go as badly as I suspect they will) - not sure the has the metaphorical balls to do it though.
So lets say parliament votes 52 v 48% to go ahead with brexit hard style
Will the remain camp be happy with a game of paper scissors rock to try and overturn it? Or draw lots, or anything that will get the result I want
Will the remain camp be happy with a game of paper scissors rock to try and overturn it? Or draw lots, or anything that will get the result I want
I hope she does and then the people that voted for Cameron can elect the next fool that wants a referendum
I agree with other posters that MPs are unlikely to seek to overturn the result of the referendum. However, the parliamentary vote makes it more likely that May will have to offer a workable exit strategy to get the required Commons majority. To my mind, that must include continuing access to the single market (with the corresponding guarantee of freedom of movement for EU workers). In other words, I think something like the Norway model becomes more likely after today's vote, which, while a downgrade on the status quo, is at least a concrete plan and would be immeasurably preferable to the wishful thinking and castles in the air of the Brexit side.
Brexit logic.
Which is ironically what the leavers want us to believe they voted out for...
Okay, this is how the numbers work - the ref results can be found here for any geeks like me who like to play around in Excel:
http://www.electoralcommission.org....u-referendum/electorate-and-count-information
But of the areas counted, there were 382 in total of which 263 voted to leave and 119 voted to remain.
However, in terms of actual voting numbers this worked out as 16,141,241 who backed remain to 17,410,742 who backed leave a difference of 1,269,501 people. That difference accounts for less than 2% of the estimated 65million population (this percentage increases if you consider the voting population, 18 and over).
Interestingly, 637 MP's declared their stance prior to the referendum, of which 479 backed remain and 158 backed leave.
To me the key points show:
- Huge discrepancy between the general public and elected politicians
- Relatively minor difference in terms of the numbers of people for each argument
- Big difference in the total number of areas for each side (due to smaller populations in more rural areas)
What a clusterfeck of a situation our political class has created.
Big lesson number one - don't leave complex legal, economic and logistical decisions in the hands of the general public and expect them to know enough in a matter of weeks to make a fully informed decision. It's not fair and the parliamentary system was created to prevent this kind of situation.
An emotional middle finger to the establishment if ever I saw one, should never have been possible.
EDIT: To add, the size of the electorate was 46,500,001 of which 33,551,983 voted (72% turnout). Interestingly it would only have taken 634,751 voters (a mere 1.89%) to change their minds to have gotten a different result. That's how close this ref was and that is why parliament needs future involvement in how this all pans out. In my humble opinion of course.
Last edited:
Of course they won't be happy. Their country has taken a massive decision they don't agree with. Why would they suddenly be happy about it? Don't pretend the exact same wouldn't be going on from Leave voters if the opposite outcome had happened.
Wait, the idiot wants to come over here? Oh, hell no!
Yes I agree, parliamenty oversight makes a hard Brexit a very difficult proposition. That's what is making prominent leavers jumpy.
My opinion is that even without parliamentry oversight, a hard brexit would be a shit outcome when 48% of the electorate voted to remain.
She risks UKIP taking an uncomfortable number of seats.
The feeling among Leave voters, that the government and labour are trying to screw them is growing. I think UKIP would capitalise on that.
No-one has to be happy with any result they don't like but they should accept it and deal with it. Referendum result was clear, accept and move on. I am not able to vote in the uk or in NL, I live with whatever outcome.
Vote leave campagin director
Do you recall how the Labour government and many of its MPs acted regarding the Lisbon Treaty? Hardly events which instil confidence in the integrity of these people.
The scenario which @MoskvaRed outlined, will be seen as a betrayal by much of the electorate. It would be extremely damaging for credibility of the Commons, and foster an even worse political climate in this country than exists at present.
Labour should call for a general election, let the country vote on the parties chosen direction of implementing brexit rather than a slogan. No one voted for whatever May's interreptation of Brexit may be.
If its shown anything its that referndums are a terrible idea especially those asking non-specific questions. Lets hope we never have one on the death penalty or we'll be asking if the public voted for death for littering or just murderers
If its shown anything its that referndums are a terrible idea especially those asking non-specific questions. Lets hope we never have one on the death penalty or we'll be asking if the public voted for death for littering or just murderers
How was it clear? 52% of the vote - roughly a third of the country voted for leave. It's not clear at all.
Also we live in a democracy - we shouldn't just accept it and deal with it, instead we should still be debating. Especially when the campaign was so awful - so many lies and run awfully.
Or for remoaning traitors, probably
Labour are still in too much of a mess right now.
Labour would still be in a tight spot. Analyst speculate that up to 9m labour voters voted for leave.
She misses the point which is that if you have been moaning about losing British parliamentary sovereignty you cannot complain about today's result.
I personally would have been happy with the EU parliament voting on whether we can submit Article 50 given it's the only parliament in which I have elected representatives.
At least you now have to admit that the referendum wasn't at all about regaining British parliamentary sovereignty but about enforcing your own views on the country
If the remainers didn't acted like complete idiots and wasted their credibility and time calling the leavers racists and idiots, they could have destroyed the "democratic" and national sovereignty arguments.
Remember that much of the 48% feel a sense of betrayal as, in their view, the leave vote majority was obtained by spreading falsehoods. There is also a frustrating assymetry to the debate in that, while the remain camp can articulate what they want, the Brexit side seems unable to propose any coherent plan. If they could articulate what they want (in a realistic sense rather than have cake and eat it), then it might be easier to find some solution that doesn't leave half the country feeling alienated fron the other half.
No need for them to lose their "shit". Brexit will happen and we will leave.
52 v 48, clear?
Democracy? So the govt has been asked to take uk out the eu and some impartial judges have said not without PM vote, democracy.
I actually hope now that the whole idea is rejected and whatever carnage follows that in civvy street can be traced back to one man, Cameron.
Do you accept the point, that MPs and previous governments (Labour in particular) have actively misled the public on th EU in the past? And that there are grounds to question the future conduct of MPs, as they would seek to undermine/dilute Brexit?
I think that's the very optimistic approach to looking at today's result, but what I'm going for too.
It seems the obvious solution/ tactic for May. I'm wondering if she's not doing it to avoid receiving too much responsibility for drawing up Brexit. At the moment with a slim majority she has plenty of ways to shift blame if we don't get the type of deal the country hopes for (i.e. restrictions on immigration with no economic drawbacks), which is the very likely outcome to negotiations. If she called an election promising all sorts of outcomes to Brexit which then failed to materialise, she then becomes a failure with no-one else to blame.
Again, this might just be wishful thinking. Maybe the Tories are just committed to the fixed term act for some reason.
That's a given. Some are losing their shit because a their dream of a "hard brexit" is being threatened.