Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Classical Mechanic]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-complaint-that-leave-campaigns-misled-voters

Hope something happens here. Sick of the way 'democratic' elections and referendums are run in this country.

 

[NinjaFletch]

My Dad is 80 next month he was born in 1936 his uncle was killed fighting to retake Caan and he was bombed during the war. Go on tell me again how stupid and racist he is because he voted leave which he did like most of the people of his generation and your mothers.

I don't get what point your trying to make here? If you fought in the war you can't be racist or are you actually trying to tell us that nobody of that generation is a racist?

Because everyone knows thats not true.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Also how do Brexiter's feel about Theresa May flirting with India over access to Indian markets in return for freer movement of people?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Leavers actually believe that immigration will come down significantly?

 

[Jippy]

I made the point that the majority of people of that generation voted brexit. I think that is true, if I am wrong you can show me the breakdown that says otherwise, can you do that?

I made the point versus someone who said voting brexit was like voting for Hitler. Do you believe that because I don't, and neither do the generation which stopped him?

lots of stupid posters then talk shite about how old people are who fought in the war and how few of them there are etc etc. This thread is really full of people who can't follow an argument.

Not sure you actually read my post. I said one of the reasons a lot of the elderly voted out is cos they have an inherent mistrust of Europe owing to the war.

 

[Fener1907]

Also how do Brexiter's feel about Theresa May flirting with India over access to Indian markets in return for freer movement of people?

As somebody who was utterly bemused by the claims that 20 million Turkish people were set to flood into Britain - a dumb headline on so many levels, but still no less galling to see it there in print - I suppose that must seem like a drop in the ocean when you're flirting with a country of over 1 billion people. I hope they sink the island.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Also how do Brexiter's feel about Theresa May flirting with India over access to Indian markets in return for freer movement of people?

It's brilliant, just bloody brilliant.

No more moving to France, Italy, Spain, Scandinavia, but hey, we have an agreement with Inidia... Delhi anyone?

 

[Dobba]

With David Davis leading the negotiations, the UK will probably come out of them with two EU memberships.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Not sure you actually read my post. I said one of the reasons a lot of the elderly voted out is cos they have an inherent mistrust of Europe owing to the war.

I doubt many people who fought in the war are still alive and would make up a very small percentage of any voters. Somehow he doesn't like people pointing out this fact.

More interesting is that in the 1975 referendum, a massive majority voted in favour of the EEC, the people who voted then did include a lot of people who did fight or were affected by the war, plus the young generation of which I was part of.

 

[Dan]

Also how do Brexiter's feel about Theresa May flirting with India over access to Indian markets in return for freer movement of people?

She can't even get a meeting with Tata Steel.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

 

[devilish]

Also how do Brexiter's feel about Theresa May flirting with India over access to Indian markets in return for freer movement of people?

May: "we are the 5th biggest economy in the world. A trade deal will benefit us bo"

MODI "We want more freedom of travelling"

May "thats an issue. We want to lower immigration rates down"

Modi "then go back home deary. Weve got nothing to discuss about"

May "but"

Modi "as said"

May "ok ok..we will reduce red tape"

Modi "thats my girl"

 

[Fener1907]

She can't even get a meeting with Tata Steel.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Having a capable leader is a pretty important detail of the entire thing that seems to have been overlooked. Sure, Britain will do anything and everything it wants in the wake of an exit from Europe. However, nobody can say with any certainty what it actually will do. I think it's safe to say that the jury is still well and truly out on whether or not she's the person to make those things happen.

 

[jackofalltrades]

She should jollywell give them an ultimatum

 

[devilish]

Why can these countries accept that the UK is happy to take their money but simply doesn't want their people? Why are they so anglophobic?

 

[Adisa]

With David Davis leading the negotiations, the UK will probably come out of them with two EU memberships.

The buffoon couldn't run a tap.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/07/theresa-may-visa-offer-india-citizens-uk

The economist Jonathan Portes said it was a “fantasy” to expect India to suddenly give Britain everything it wanted in trade terms. “They’ve never hidden the fact that as far as they’re concerned they regard access to the UK labour market for skilled workers, through the work permit system, as a key priority.

“I don’t think there’s remotely any prospect of a free trade agreement with them.”

 

[Stanley Road]

surely the 12 year old workers in india should have a say in things

 

[Chorley1974]

Why can these countries accept that the UK is happy to take their money but simply doesn't want their people? Why are they so anglophobic?

Yeah, cos we don't have any of them

 

[devilish]

Yeah, cos we don't have any of them

You've been trying to control the immigration flow for many many years, which is quite ridiculous considered that you were never shy in putting your hands into India's wealth

 

[Stanley Road]

Good god, this thread gets worse every day

 

[SteveJ]

These anti-terrorism posters echo Nazi propaganda:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/07/anti-terrorism-posters-nazi-propoganda

 

[Jippy]

Near to me they are replacing an existing bus lane with a cycle lane. Of course the bust stops remain in the same place, meaning that Mr and Mrs Push Bike have tow ait behind a double-decker. Yet will they do that in practice? When i was by the Embankment the other week the cyclists were speeding past in deadly silence; in Amsterdam, they signal if a pedestrian is close.

I would assert that a predominantly trade based agreement continues to be what the UK would favour, so the EU's various political evolutions are of crucial importance. If Labour and the Tories hadn't resorted to deception in he past, the public could have examined these developments one stage at a time.

Yeah we have that in Hammersmith, so the bus gets stuck behind some fatso freewheeling along at 4mph. With the Vauxhall one, there is no pavement after the zebra crossing, so

I doubt many people who fought in the war are still alive and would make up a very small percentage of any voters. Somehow he doesn't like people pointing out this fact.

More interesting is that in the 1975 referendum, a massive majority voted in favour of the EEC, the people who voted then did include a lot of people who did fight or were affected by the war, plus the young generation of which I was part of.

Fair point, albeit it was not long out of the Economic Steel & Community programme. Horrid economic backdrop in the 70s, maybe an easier sell?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Fair point, albeit it was not long out of the Economic Steel & Community programme. Horrid economic backdrop in the 70s, maybe an easier sell?

The UK in the late sixties and early seventies was a right mess, seems people want to head back to the good old days

 

[Fener1907]

These anti-terrorism posters echo Nazi propaganda:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/07/anti-terrorism-posters-nazi-propoganda

Looks more like an anti-public masturbation campaign.

 

[Silva]

Come on guys, there's no legitimate reason for someone to wear a big coat right now, as we approach the cold depths of winter.

 

[Jippy]

The UK in the late sixties and early seventies was a right mess, seems people want to head back to the good old days

Yup, IMF bailouts, winter of discontent. Here we go again. Stagflation misery round the corner with a bond/equity/property price bubble overhang to boot.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Also how do Brexiter's feel about Theresa May flirting with India over access to Indian markets in return for freer movement of people?

Much depends upon the precise details, but a strong Brexit can allow us to make concessions on trade that would not otherwise have been possible. The country will still be working toward a sustainable annual figure of course, however there will no longer exist the handicap of our immigration policy being determined by the 6%.

The oddity here is not those of Leave wishing to depart from FoM with Brussels, it is Remainers insisting upon a status quo which hinders our dealings with most of this planet. The world grows smaller year-by-year, and a Brexit Britain can better embrace this future than its old guise of a nation uncommitted to the European Union project.

EU net immigration is 180,000 and likely to increase in the years ahead if it goes unchecked. There is defintie scope to both trim and reallocate many 10,000s from such a figure IMO.

 

[Jippy]

These anti-terrorism posters echo Nazi propaganda:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/07/anti-terrorism-posters-nazi-propoganda

I think he's muddling his religious stereotypes. The Nazis did some great posters tbf, so too did the Soviets.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=n...AUIBygB&biw=360&bih=615#imgrc=Ju0vx0rhft48FM:

 

[Mozza]

Much depends upon the precise details, but a strong Brexit can allow us to make concessions on trade that would not otherwise have been possible. The country will still be working toward a sustainable annual figure of course, however there will no longer exist the handicap of our immigration policy being determined by the 6%.

The oddity here is not those of Leave wishing to depart from FoM with Brussels, it is Remainers insisting upon a status quo which hinders our dealings with most of this planet. The world grows smaller year-by-year, and a Brexit Britain can better embrace this future than its old guise of a nation uncommitted to the European Union project.

EU net immigration is 180,000 and likely to increase in the years ahead if it goes unchecked. There is defintie scope to both trim and reallocate many 10,000s from such a figure IMO.

There is no room to manoeuvre on migration, the target is 100000 or less, more than EU or non EU migration alone. Both groups will be crushed to make the xenophobes happy

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Much depends upon the precise details, but a strong Brexit can allow us to make concessions on trade that would not otherwise have been possible. The country will still be working toward a sustainable annual figure of course, however there will no longer exist the handicap of our immigration policy being determined by the 6%.

The oddity here is not those of Leave wishing to depart from FoM with Brussels, it is Remainers insisting upon a status quo which hinders our dealings with most of this planet. The world grows smaller year-by-year, and a Brexit Britain can better embrace this future than its old guise of a nation uncommitted to the European Union project.

EU net immigration is 180,000 and likely to increase in the years ahead if it goes unchecked. There is defintie scope to both trim and reallocate many 10,000s from such a figure IMO.

Which countries are the UK going to make concessions on trade with.
You haven't mentioned the 190,000 net non-EU immigrants - what is the plan to reduce this as it has nothing to do with the UK being in the EU
Additionally emigration was falling.

There is also a high possibility that immigration from the EU may increase whilst the UK is still in the EU, to get in before the doors are closed

 

[Count Orduck]

@Nick 0208 Ldn

Out of interest, are you pro-Scottish independence? Or do you want to keep the UK intact?

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

There is no room to manoeuvre on migration, the target is 100000 or less, more than EU or non EU migration alone. Both groups will be crushed to make the xenophobes happy

Which countries are the UK going to make concessions on trade with.
You haven't mentioned the 190,000 net non-EU immigrants - what is the plan to reduce this as it has nothing to do with the UK being in the EU
Additionally emigration was falling.

There is also a high possibility that immigration from the EU may increase whilst the UK is still in the EU, to get in before the doors are closed

The 100,000 figure is not realistic in either the short or medium term, and this should be made clear to the electorate. Nor would i seek a significant reduction of the non-EU figure, indeed it might have to rise a little in the immediate aftermath of Brexit.

When i mentioned concessions, i was alluding to travel and work arrangements for the citizens of a certain country with whom the UK is negotiating (be it India, China, Canada, Australia).

@Nick 0208 Ldn

Out of interest, are you pro-Scottish independence? Or do you want to keep the UK intact?

My natural inclination is for maintaining the union, and i should be disappointed if Scotland votes for independence. However we can't turn back the clock an enact devolution properly, or produce better governance from Westminster, so the momentum for a breakaway could be unstoppable. Yet had the Scots voted 52-48 i certainly wouldn't have called for my local MP to act the nuisance.

There might still be the potential to salvage the UK as it is presently constituted, although it would require a uniform federal settlement for all four home nations to stand any chance in my view.

 

[Mozza]

The 100,000 figure is not realistic in either the short or medium term, and this should be made clear to the electorate. Nor would i seek a significant reduction of the non-EU figure, indeed it might have to rise a little in the immediate aftermath of Brexit.

When i mentioned concessions, i was alluding to travel and work arrangements for the citizens of a certain country with whom the UK is negotiating (be it India, China, Canada, Australia).

Brexiters won't accept a change in target. You've got too many crazies on your side who hate all migration. This pledge destroyed Cameron and it'll hurt May as well

More evidence that migration is all that matters

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Brexiters won't accept a change in target. You've got too many crazies on your side who hate all migration. This pledge destroyed Cameron and it'll hurt May as well

More evidence that migration is all that matters

Projecting your image of Leavers, and those with a differing stance on immigration policy, certainly does seem to be all that matters to you. Unfortunately, my response did not conform with your prejudices.

Brexiteers will be far happier when the UK is operating a global immigration policy, and one which allows us to stem the increases of recent times. The EU immigration figure is totally disproportionate, its workers easier to replace over time.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

The 100,000 figure is not realistic in either the short or medium term, and this should be made clear to the electorate. Nor would i seek a significant reduction of the non-EU figure, indeed it might have to rise a little in the immediate aftermath of Brexit.

When i mentioned concessions, I was alluding to travel and work arrangements for the citizens of a certain country with whom the UK is negotiating (be it India, China, Canada, Australia).

Yes it should have been made clear to the electorate but it wasn't, like everything else and they've voted in the expectancy that immigration will drastically fall, and as you say the likelihood is that immigration will actually increase because of Brexit and emigration will fall and those who have emigrated may return because their pension is becoming worthless.
The EU classified immigrants would then join the non-EU immigrants to become a new classification of non-UK immigrants, but the Uk plans on continuing to accept immigrants from outside the EU but refuse entry to those from inside the EU

As you may note with the initial approach to India, they are not going to bow to the demands of the UK. As for China , you may have noticed that a lot of products already have "Made in China" on them. Doubtful many products in China have "Made in Britain" on them. They do not need to bow down to the Uk's demands.

Those two countries alone make up about 40% of the world, add the USA with TTIP, Canada with a 7 year long discussion for a country with a population the size of Poland and Australia which have a grand total of 23million.

Yet the UK wish to give up around 50% of their trade because of freedom of movement which in all likelihood will be part of any deal with other countries.

When the UK leave, they will have no trade deals in place. It's like starting a new company and they'll be begging to get some deals, from a very weak point. The Uk are so proud to have the 5th largest economy , what if they become the 15th largest economy or worse.

 

[Mozza]

Projecting your image of Leavers, and those with a differing stance on immigration policy, certainly does seem to be all that matters to you. Unfortunately, my response did not conform with your prejudices.

Brexiteers will be far happier when the UK is operating a global immigration policy, and one which allows us to stem the increases of recent times. The EU immigration figure is totally disproportionate, its workers easier to replace over time.

If I'm projecting it so too are the government. Or maybe they pursuing policies that hammer migration because they know thas what Brexit was mostly about

 

[devilish]

Projecting your image of Leavers, and those with a differing stance on immigration policy, certainly does seem to be all that matters to you. Unfortunately, my response did not conform with your prejudices.

Brexiteers will be far happier when the UK is operating a global immigration policy, and one which allows us to stem the increases of recent times. The EU immigration figure is totally disproportionate, its workers easier to replace over time.

They will be probably be replaced by British expats in Europe, most of whom elderly people whose been living off on someone else NHS. They will be the ones who'll be hardly hit by the pound's freefall + less rights and would certainly return home because of it. I wonder how the NHS will cope with them.

Meanwhile India has posed the same criteria that the EU did. No freedom of movement of people = no preferential access to its market. Unlike the EU, India have quite a history with the Brits. Which means they will probably love to get one past you.

I guess the UK is far less influential to the great scheme of things then it thought

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Yes it should have been made clear to the electorate but it wasn't, like everything else and they've voted in the expectancy that immigration will drastically fall, and as you say the likelihood is that immigration will actually increase because of Brexit and emigration will fall and those who have emigrated may return because their pension is becoming worthless.
The EU classified immigrants would then join the non-EU immigrants to become a new classification of non-UK immigrants, but the Uk plans on continuing to accept immigrants from outside the EU but refuse entry to those from inside the EU

As you may note with the initial approach to India, they are not going to bow to the demands of the UK. As for China , you may have noticed that a lot of products already have "Made in China" on them. Doubtful many products in China have "Made in Britain" on them. They do not need to bow down to the Uk's demands.

Those two countries alone make up about 40% of the world, add the USA with TTIP, Canada with a 7 year long discussion for a country with a population the size of Poland and Australia which have a grand total of 23million.

Yet the UK wish to give up around 50% of their trade because of freedom of movement which in all likelihood will be part of any deal with other countries.

When the UK leave, they will have no trade deals in place. It's like starting a new company and they'll be begging to get some deals, from a very weak point. The Uk are so proud to have the 5th largest economy , what if they become the 15th largest economy or worse.

What is all this bowing down nonsense? We're an open-minded trading partner and we shall seek a fir deal, it is as simple as that. And how the devil are we going to lose 50% of our trade? Did you help to write the Treasury's Brexit report, perchance?

A fiction worthy of prosecution by the CPS, if Leave is to be brought up on charges.

I think you well understood my categorisation of immigration by the way, the terms being those which exist presently. EU immigrants will not be unfairly targeted, quite the contrary; they just won't have an unwarranted advantage over the other 90% of the world.

If I'm projecting it so too are the government. Or maybe they pursuing policies that hammer migration because they know thas what Brexit was mostly about

But the stricter controls were imposed by Remainers, no? They were too severe, and i've said as much on this forum multiple times, however Brexit can put all prospective migrants on an even footing. This is all rather ironic you know; the parochial and all too conservative outlook of continentally focused Remainers.

Meanwhile India has posed the same criteria that the EU did. No freedom of movement of people = no preferential access to its market. Unlike the EU, India have quite a history with the Brits. Which means they will probably love to get one past you.t

Not everyone walks around with your chip on their shoulder, sneering at the world.

I must confess however, that i have yet to find a report n which India demands full FoM for its entire population.

 

[Fener1907]

I guess the UK is far less influential to the great scheme of things then it thought

Definitely the case. It also now has an unproven leader to compound that. Might have thrown her weight around on immigration as Home Secretary, but other countries don't have to eat her shit on such issues.

 

[Mozza]

But the stricter controls were imposed by Remainers, no? They were too severe, and i've said as much on this forum multiple times, however Brexit can put all prospective migrants on an even footing. This is all rather ironic you know; the parochial and all too conservative outlook of continentally focused Remainers

I am directly effected by the current system but I have no desire to make people suffer like I have when it comes to getting their spouse into the country.

Your Brexiters will make the system equally shit for everyone, they will not make it any easier