To be fair: I think we also would have been trashed by Bayern this season..
Should Wenger be sacked?
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It still should not be losing this badly.
Like who exactly?
I think his last chance is to finish 4th, if he can do that AGAIN which he constantly can he will stay, otherwise the board must sack him or he to resign.
Not at all. We wouldn't lose 10-2 for sure.
Even with Moyes in charge we drew the game at Old Trafford and were ahead at one point in the tie. We lost 4-2 in the tie which is lot more respectable than losing 10-2. This is with Fellaini playing in the midfield and Welbeck leading the line.
They might have been on the wrong side of some decisions but to capitulate like that again shows a real lack of character.
Exactly, no one was expecting them to beat Bayern, but how about losing with dignity. Arsenal are turned into a laughing stock against Bayern.
The player clearly don't care any more. There is no way he is going to stay as Arsenal's manager next season regardless of what happens this one.
Wenger will not be sacked. It's simple.
Arsenal are run as a business enterprise with the aim to keep ROI index in the sweet spot.
Let's just assume the Arsenal board invest 200 mil in the summer to get better players. Does is guarantee success (winning CL or PL)? Absolutely not. Football is a high risk business with many uncontrollable factors. But let's assume that the Arsenal board do invest 200 mil in transfer fees + 30-40 mil a year in wages for 3-4 new players. And they do win the PL and CL.
How much more money will they get from sponsors, UEFA, fans (match day) and TV money? extra 20 mil? 30 mil? So investing 240 mil gives a return of 30 mil. What sort of business is that?
I'm not saying it's good. this is the way Arsenal is set up. their board makes sure to invest enough to be in CL so they finish fiscal year in the black. Rinse and repeat.And that's why Wenger will never be sacked as he guarantees that top 4 finish.
Say what you want about Abramovich, the sheiks, Levy or our won Eddie - but these guys do not lack ambition. Arsenal board does.
Arsenal are run as a business enterprise with the aim to keep ROI index in the sweet spot.
Let's just assume the Arsenal board invest 200 mil in the summer to get better players. Does is guarantee success (winning CL or PL)? Absolutely not. Football is a high risk business with many uncontrollable factors. But let's assume that the Arsenal board do invest 200 mil in transfer fees + 30-40 mil a year in wages for 3-4 new players. And they do win the PL and CL.
How much more money will they get from sponsors, UEFA, fans (match day) and TV money? extra 20 mil? 30 mil? So investing 240 mil gives a return of 30 mil. What sort of business is that?
I'm not saying it's good. this is the way Arsenal is set up. their board makes sure to invest enough to be in CL so they finish fiscal year in the black. Rinse and repeat.And that's why Wenger will never be sacked as he guarantees that top 4 finish.
Say what you want about Abramovich, the sheiks, Levy or our won Eddie - but these guys do not lack ambition. Arsenal board does.
I was going to mock my arsenal colleague. But to be honest, I am a bit embarrassed now that we only managed to stick 3 past them. Wouldn't want to open myself to that kind of counter.
Just learned that they lost 5-1 to bayern in their most recent game before this knockout as well.
This is actually their third 5-1 defeat to them on the trot. lol.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/34675853
This is actually their third 5-1 defeat to them on the trot. lol.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/34675853
HAHAHAHAHA....
I think more than anything this shows how far the 'top' EPL clubs have fallen behind. I think we would be stuffed by Bayern as well tbh (maybe not 10-2 lol). Only Chelsea have a credible team on the European stage at the moment.
Ingenious title.
I like Wenger a lot. He's done so much for English football, and he's produced some great sides and some great players... I've always thought Arsenal should give him as much chances and times that are required for him to be succesful with them.
But... last night was just embarrassing on almost every level, and he should be sacked asap.
But... last night was just embarrassing on almost every level, and he should be sacked asap.
Hope it doesn't come to a sacking but he must realise his time is up at the end of the season. He might just be able to salvage top 4 or an FA Cup win but he is not going to have the same reputation as Fergie of going out at the top. We'll miss his voluminous raincoats.
Chelsea are currently not on the European stage though, so how can they? They're running away with the league, but it's no measure of how they would do in Europe.
Defending like we did against the Saints most of the time, we would definitely get mashed by players like Robben, Ribery, Costa & Lewandowski!
If he is leaving then he should announce it now than just post season. At least he will get a proper send off from the fans.
You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Wenger has only himself to blame. Had he went 2 years ago after their last FA Cup, the relationship would never have been this toxic.
Wenger has only himself to blame. Had he went 2 years ago after their last FA Cup, the relationship would never have been this toxic.
He wont be sacked now, though I don't think his future has ever been in more doubt. Being as stubborn as he is though I can see Wenger staying on another 2 years ''for the love of the club''.
Aka emotional blackmail, he knows 50% of their fanbase will always stick up for him as long as they aren't relegated.
We were knackered, Saints had almost 2 weeks to prepare.
We certainly wouldn't ship 10 goals over 2 legs. That's a Wenger special.
True, we already did the same to them in the league in 11-12.
I agree with you.
As long as Arsenal qualifies via the 4th place and reaches the last 16 of the UCL with a domestic few cup quarter or semi finals, the board would have achieved their targets as well as their returns.
In fact, Arsenal fans should hope that Arsenal do not finish in 4th place and let the investors feel the pinch of losing money through not qualifying for UCL. United board sacked Moyes because Moyes could not qualify for UCL. I think the board could have given him a chance if he had finished 4th. And the board know that as long as Arsenal is in the UCL, fans will come back and buy the season tickets. Arsenal fans need to be more vocal. Perhaps threaten to buy Leyton Orient's season tickets if nothing changes.
Arsenal have been lucky. Liverpool were not a force since Benitez left. They only had 1 season when they reached the top with BR but have been lackluster for the most of the past 5 years. Spurs are only just beginning to reap the rewards from hiring Pochettino. United are just beginning to recover from Moyers and LVG. This has to be the season when Arsenal finishes outside the top 4.
The only time we lost with more than 2 goals on aggregate in Europe is EC SF against Milan in 1958.
Even Moyes did better against a stronger Bayern side.
Exactly. We would not go through right now but never ever would we get destroyed like this. Tbh I do not think any other Team from the PL would have conceded 10.
Wenger got everything wrong.
Yeah, just if you look at the quality of their play this season, it is up there, it looks credible, they understand how to defend and attack as a team. I don't think any other side in the PL looks strong enough at the moment.
City are great going forward but really dodgy at the back and I expect them to come a cropper against a big side. Arsenal, nuff said, Leicester, not good enough, Spurs bowed out meekly in the Europa, would not be too surprised if we did the same.
I mean I have watched games like Napoli-Real and PSG-Barca and the standard looks definitely higher than any PL club bar Chelsea can manage at the moment. I am not sure there is a PL club in the top 5 in Europe at the moment, and there might only be 1 in the top 10.
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Wenger's comments
He's such a bad loser. Sure, the ref is why you shipped five..
I know it's not really good form to drop your players in it, but to categorically say they did not let you down is ridiculous.
He's such a bad loser. Sure, the ref is why you shipped five..
I know it's not really good form to drop your players in it, but to categorically say they did not let you down is ridiculous.
Ferdinand and Neville are snakes. They defend Wenger just because they know Arsenal are not dangerous with him in charge.
Wenger's comments
He's such a bad loser. Sure, the ref is why you shipped five..
I know it's not really good form to drop your players in it, but to categorically say they did not let you down is ridiculous.
We wouldn't have shipped 5 though if Kos had stayed on and the penalty had been ruled offside and if Theo's pen claim was given. We were actually the better team up until the red card and the first time in a while we've played really well. After then they chased the game, gave loads of space with 1 CB and the result was as is.
Bayern are another level though, no doubt about it.
I think there's some truth in this. I also think they have an enduring respect from when Arsenal and Wenger were great so won't give both barrels.
I don't know how snakelike any of that is though, they're hardly gaining anything personally.
In my view, if it had got to 2-0 Bayern would have pulled their socks up and ripped Arse a new....
Its a tough one mentally when you are so much better and have such a cushion, i remember us against Porto etc etc (even recently against Hull)
True, you would have had a better chance of keeping it sensible. But the tactics after the red didn't suit the situation and that's on Wenger
Neville defends most managers who are under pressure. He is just too set in his ways about not sacking managers etc. On Wenger, it depends on what sort of club Arsenal want to be. If they want to be a Premier League/Champions League contending club again, they need somebody else managing the club. If they'e happy with top four and an early knockout stage Champions League exit, then keep the status quo. I can't see an argument for him to stay. He's finished and Arsenal need a managerial change. It's all too stale.
He is right about not changing the manager every year, but feck me, after 21 years and 13 years of not competing at high level anymore you have to change.