Jesus. He had a good game. Let's not talk silly
Another good game I'm sure you'll agree? Not the only one this season either.
Ander Herrera vs N'golo Kanté | Thread has gone well
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Another good game I'm sure you'll agree? Not the only one this season either.
Jesus. He had a good game. Let's not talk silly
Except him having good games is not an exception. Hence the thread. Deserves credit and praise just as does Kante.
He's had great games. Even had a better game than Kantè this game.
But he's not on his levels of consistency yet.
Still perhaps we shouldn't dwell on what he can't do and instead focus on what he can. His performance tonight deserves it.
I don't think Herrera is as good as Kante but I thought Kante was rather poor for them today. He gave the ball away a lot.
There are too many salty people in here. Kante has been proven to be better this season because he's been more effective. They got rekt last time, and obviously wanted to use this winning opportunity as a revenge and ignoring that Kante has rekt us twice this season and scored two goals too.
Even though I'm an United fans, obviously I'm going to be fair and honest that Mourinho's tactic today for using Herrera to stop Hazard was the key. Herrera is the better player today due to tactical instructions. It's the same thing with how Lallana looked like a better player than any of our players against Liverpool due to Klopp tactical instruction to stop Carrick.
Been consistently good all season, dominated you guys at Anfield too
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Nah people are salty because there are complete and utter fecking morons on here (like genuine thundercunts) who immediately came in here to gloat after one of our players got wrongly sent off. That too in a knockout FA cup game, in which he was playing great until he was wrongly sent off by a twat of a ref.
I bumped this up for them.
To want a move to a top European club consistency has to come in the form of years...
Hes already at one duhhh
Shocking from Kante tbh.
1/10 attempt.
Kante is not more effective. There is difference in their roles. Herrera is as effective for us for his own right. Kante had more stand out games, that's the key which is arguably depended on overall team performance. Adding to that the reputation built from last season, the highlight to how his role allow him to go face to face with the most expensive player in the world... Hazard was MOTM for this game.
Herrera didn't have anything to build from last season. He was not starter for us at first. We got rekt at SB first game due to the Chelsea in form front play vs our shaky defense back then. Chelsea midfield was good but not totally dominate us to the extend of today game.
The second game at SB, Oliver offed Herrera or it's still a balance game. He's doing well enough for his role. At that time, our team was less accustomed to this new tactic too. You can check that without hindsight, I said after this game: Kante was far from the MOTM. Kante did well to make impact with the goal, but I would have expected more from Kante that game with around 1 hour vs 10 men United. Hazard was indisputable MOTM for me that game, too.
This game Herrera eclipsed the above performances from Kante. He shut down Hazard who is my POTY. He assisted & sealed the game with a goal too. He's doing this while having a deeper, stricter role. Pogba can be very good but not yet Hazard in top form so Kante's job on Pogba the last 2 games ain't as impressive. Here we have a game where we dominated Chelsea to the point of zero shot on target with Herrera being MOTM!!!
The tactical instructions can't be an excuse to downplay Herrera today. Kante was given freedom in his role too. As pointing out for few times now, most of the time Kante was asked for a more disciplined, calmer role, he's not as impressive. If Kante was to play without Matic all these games, then you have the point. As how things turned out in reality, not so much. Even MOTM show spotted Matic's importance after Chelsea vs City game who is usually caught deeply into Kante's overhype (Chelsea already led before half time when Matic was brought on to seal the midfield gap in front of the defensive line)
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Very poor. Will be completely ignored though.
Can't wait to see Kante for in the champions league next season when he plays 3 games per week.
This doesn't get highlighted enough in the Kante vs Herrera debates imo. Kante is playing with a dedicated DM besides him in Matic, a very good one at that. Meanwhile Herrera is asked to do a combined DM\B2B role where he often is the most defensive one in a midfield two or the one with the most responsibility in a three. Put a dedicated DM like Matic besides Herrera and you'll see him eclipse the mobility that Kante get's so praised for while still being better than him in attack.
Kante is good, he is really good, but he is also becoming ridiculously overrated.
Unlike Pogba's 'mistake' in the FA Cup which was dwelled on for a long while as evidence that he's shit.
Anyone got the stats of how many fouls committed by Herrera and Kante today? Seemed as if Herrera's fouls were more highlighted simply due to the fact because it was on Hazard.
never noticed that, but that was very poor control from Kante, and directly led to our goal.
Opposing players should also get an 'opposition assist' when they make such mistakes that directly contribute to an opposition goal. Would make interesting reading.
Pretty sure defensive errors are counted within optas stats box. But obviously it's quite subjective.
Agreed.
For me, this 'debate' is like saying who was better for Real Madrid Casemiro or Xabi Alonso. The likes of Casemiro and Kante can run all day, they will snuff out attacks at source, chase like a pack dog and get the credit for doing the dirty work. Players like Xabi Alonso and Ander Herrera have to do that kind of thing and more though. They are expected to shield defensively and get things started when their team builds attacks. Its a different way of playing #6 and it takes more footballing talent.
Can Kante play the kind of through balls that Ander played for Mhki against Spurs or for Rashford against Chelsea? When it comes to defensive contributions Herrera is definitely in Kante's league. When it comes to attacking contributions Kante can't hold a candle to Herrera.
His red card was the right decision in that game.
Hererra was better but I still thought Kante had a good game.
The usual ability to make tackles was there, disposed Pogba a couple of times and he carried the ball well. Definitely made a mistake for the goal though.
What you also notice though is that he's really hard to disposess. I find it really frustrating to watch and am always begging one of ours to clatter him. However that change of speed and low centre of gravity make it difficult.
The usual ability to make tackles was there, disposed Pogba a couple of times and he carried the ball well. Definitely made a mistake for the goal though.
What you also notice though is that he's really hard to disposess. I find it really frustrating to watch and am always begging one of ours to clatter him. However that change of speed and low centre of gravity make it difficult.
This thread wouldnt be ridiculed if we hadnt messed up so many home games and actually won them like we should have (vs WH, Burnley, Stoke, WBA, Arsenal - and we really really should have won those if our strikers had done their job - but those extra 10 points puts us on 70 - 5 behind Chelsea with a game in hand). but its all ifs / and buts.
but forgetting that for a moment, the performances of Herrera have majority of the time been 7 and 8/10 esp for the bigger games. The way hes viewed is cos of our position unfortunately and thus his effectiveness is seen as lesser than Kante.
but forgetting that for a moment, the performances of Herrera have majority of the time been 7 and 8/10 esp for the bigger games. The way hes viewed is cos of our position unfortunately and thus his effectiveness is seen as lesser than Kante.
Kante is great at some things but pretty shit at a bunch of others.
Hes a good player with the right set up but he needs a midfield partner who's going to sit and hold position, can pass and hopefully chip in with goals
because Kante isn't going to give you any of them things.
They're not insignificant weaknesses for a midfielder
Hes a good player with the right set up but he needs a midfield partner who's going to sit and hold position, can pass and hopefully chip in with goals
because Kante isn't going to give you any of them things.
They're not insignificant weaknesses for a midfielder
Probably talking sh|te here but I've noticed WUM nick-'rooney lover'-2014 or whatever his name has pretty much stopped posting. I'm definitely not saying he's posting under a different name..
Yeah I was surprised by Kante's ability on the ball. His ball carrying/dribbling and general 1-5 yards of play was quite good i.e short passing, receiving ball to feet in tight areas etc. He's a very good player in his role. That should be the end of it but if we were to compare players, in the overall context of things Herrera is a more talented player. He's showing he's no way inferior even in a different role to his natural instinct and that's the crux of the argument; he's able to do the defensive side as good as/better as the best defensively minded midfielder in the league, yet still post incredible stats leading to direct goals.
Herrera's best is Kante's worst.
Is that the case, though? Plenty of top players have been regarded highly without playing for top, title winning clubs. People rate Zlatan incredibly highly, and will continue to do so irrespective of where we finish this season. The same can be said for players like Sanchez, De Bruyne etc, even though their teams will likely finish a fair bit off the title.
I really like Herrera and I think he's getting better and better, but I don't think Kante being rated ahead of him has anything to do with his sides league standing - it's because, at the moment, he's the better of the two, which is no slight to Herrera, by the way. Although Herrera's continuing to improve all the time and is fast becoming one of our key figures.
This post is just flat out retarded.
Using retarded as an adjective is extremely offensive and I've put you on ignore. What a mature reply.
Its weird cos of the players you chose.
Sanchez is being rated cos of the numbers hes producing for Arsenal so its not comparable.
Same with De Bruyne but didnt he have a huge drought and was being slated for it?
As for Zlatan, hes top goal scorer so of course hes rated (although a lot still slate him cos hes probably missed a lot too).
As for the bolded part, why do you believe that? What specifically makes you say that?
They might not be the best examples but I do think it highlights that players aren't really been rated/not rated at all depending on where their team finishes in the league. Looking at United alone, I could take an example from the opposite side of the pitch in De Gea...his best form has largely come during the clubs worst period since before 1992, and yet he's still rated as one of the world's best goalkeepers anyway.
Personally, I'd rate Kante above Herrera since I think Kante's engine is incredible and his stamina and ability to constantly work hard and influence the midfield is superb. He's not the sole reason Leicester/potentially Chelsea have won titles in back to back years when he's been there, but his presence in both midfield's has improved them massively.
That's not to say most of that doesn't apply to Herrera either, right enough, who was brilliant today and has consistently been very good throughout most of this season, but as an overall player I'd say Kante's ahead of Herrera at the moment....and I don't think today changes that.
This post is flat out stupid even judging by footie forum standards.
I'd probably say that's too extreme - I'd have Kante as a better player without question but Herrera's been consistently good enough this season for the comparison between the two of them to warrant a discussion.
I don't get what you're trying to say here by quoting me?
Your opinion is wrong.
Thanks for answering
I get what youre saying with the first paragraph, but again, most of the examples there are stat based people. GKers defined by saves / clean sheets.
Strikers by goals (even if they are anonymous for 90 minutes).
Midfielders however can run games but have 0 assists and goals to their name (eg Modric).
See the bolded bit I think also applies to Herrera but Herrera also adds assists to his game over Kante.
For me, Herrera always constantly works hard esp for a team like United who are more vulnerable to counter attacks.
For me its more of a test, if we replaced Herrera with Kante, would United be better off? Im inclined to say no, because thats not the area weve had an issue with, its the striking and scoring part. (If we had maybe Costa or Hazard though in our team, we probably would have been challenging for the title).
But I defo do think some of our players (herrera and even maybe Pogba) would have been seen in a different light in terms of impact and overall performance to the season if some of the results were different (despite what they did to put us in a position of having created chances which others have fluffed).
Just my opinion though
Not a chance.
Herrera > Kante
I think there isn't much between them this season, but Kante is the media/internet darling and people fawn over him to sickening levels. He's a great ball winner, but he wouldn't have played a pass like Herrera did.
Herrera is better than Kante.
Kante's team is on top of the league so his hype is at dizzying heights. However, when you look into the key parameters of a central midfielder in details, Herrera has outperformed Kante in leaps and bounds.
Kante's team is on top of the league so his hype is at dizzying heights. However, when you look into the key parameters of a central midfielder in details, Herrera has outperformed Kante in leaps and bounds.