General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
Unmutual said:
Firstly, if you think what we've seen from Labour over the last 18 months or so has been effective, well, that's your opinion (man). Personally I think Labour is a shambles right now at the strategic, organisational & operational level. But either way, don't be this guy.

It is possible to have an informed view & think Corbyn has been failing.
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It hasn't been effective at all. The in-fighting in Labour though is predominantly caused by factions within the party who want a different leader who will pander more to a right wing media. They don't feel Labour can win without it and believe it's the best option even if it means compromising on principles. Corbyn can't be bought like a Tony Blair and he sticks to his guns (misguided or otherwise) despite whatever gets flung at him.

In terms of actual policy, it's not like those factions within Labour are so very different as we saw when Owen Smith went up against Corbyn in the leadership election and didn't really have anything different to offer. I'm no big Corbyn fan and he wouldn't be my personal choice as leader... but a lot of the narrative about his failings are less to do with real failings on his part and more to do with a right wing media that will do whatever it can to ensure he can't succeed.
 
Unmutual said:
Its a parody account, but it lampoons a running theme. I have no problem with you being inspired by Corbyn, but rather the idea that anyone that disagrees is because they believe a myth perpetuated by the right wing media.
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And likewise, I take no issue with anyone who dislikes Corbyn on the basis of his policies or vision for the country. What I find tiresome are folks echoing the "ineffective opposition" soundbite without really explaining what it is they find ineffective.
 
Talking about being affraid of the opposition regarding brexit and then having people like David Davis, Liam Fox or Boris Johnson handling sensitive negotiations with the EU :lol:
 
Surely the goal of any left leaning/center left individual in this election is to weaken the tory mandate. In most realistic terms you're not actually voting for corbyn to win if you vote labour, I think most are resigned to labour losing. Even if by some miracle he wins, he's never going to have a strong enough mandate to push through any policies you are concerned about. But, voting to weakening the tory parliament would still put everyone else in a better position (corbyn will resign after losing the election).

Vote for anyone bar the conservatives that can win the seat in your constituency (exception being UKIP).
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
You could perhaps tax luxuries such as expensive cars at higher rates and have a mansion tax. You could threaten to make it a legal requirement for ISPs to block websites like Ebay and Amazon unless higher taxes are collected from those companies. There are things that could be done that aren't.

You can argue the Tory model works but for who? Not the majority. And not for the NHS and Schools which have deteriated. No we shouldn't borrow to spend, we should tax and spend. And socialism does work in Denmark and Sweden.
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This is it. What's wrong with closing the gap on the rich vs the poor ever so slightly if it's to the benefit of a few million people? Why is there such importance on being economically responsible at the expense of the quality of life of a huge proportion of the population? There is a balance to be struck and Labour are more likely to achieve that balance than the Conservatives.

If we reduced the cost it goes to University we would drive uptake from all backgrounds and give us a better educated and skilled workforce that would in turn help grow the economy. By increasing the cost it goes to University it puts people of, singles out low income households and further drives the gap in inequality between the working and middle class. The Tories are quite happy with driving the people that can't afford University in to low paid and unskilled work and with a majority will squeeze the rights of those people over time.
 
Skills said:
Surely the goal of any left leaning/center left individual in this election is to weaken the tory mandate. In most realistic terms you're not actually voting for corbyn to win if you vote labour, I think most are resigned to labour losing. Even if by some miracle he wins, he's never going to have a strong enough mandate to push through any policies you are concerned about. But, voting to weakening the tory parliament would still put everyone else in a better position (corbyn will resign after losing the election).

Vote for anyone bar the conservatives that can win the seat in your constituency (exception being UKIP).
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Exactly this.

Labour won't win a majority, but we can ensure the Tories don't either.
 
Skills said:
Neither does May. If you have any confidence in her competence with this entire matter, it's just worth remembering she made Boris Johnson the foreign secretary.
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That's besides the point. We're talking about Jeremy Corbyn, not the government.

I wouldn't trust Jeremy in any way to handle the Brexit process. He's failed in his leadership to exhibit any competence or even intelligent comment in this area.
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
You could perhaps tax luxuries such as expensive cars at higher rates and have a mansion tax. You could threaten to make it a legal requirement for ISPs to block websites like Ebay and Amazon unless higher taxes are collected from those companies. There are things that could be done that aren't.

You can argue the Tory model works but for who? Not the majority. And not for the NHS and Schools which have deteriated. No we shouldn't borrow to spend, we should tax and spend. And socialism does work in Denmark and Sweden.
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You make some good suggestions! I think the cars is being addressed with the new car tax, which takes everything over £40k and massively increases the tax. I don't know why they aren't doing a mansion tax, maybe it's the consistency, e.g. what counts as a mansion? Values very different in north and London for example. Mansion is London could be £15m+ depending on where you draw the line, in the north it could be £2m+! So maybe number of bedrooms, but then I guess people would just change the layout of their hours to avoid this, e.g. massive open plan spaces for recreational elements.

No idea why the government can't do better out of companies like Ebay and Amazon. As you say they are easy targets, they want to make their money here they should damn well pay the tax on the money made here. All the tax schemes that allow profits to be offset against our country income need to be stopped. I assume the problem is here that would also impact our entrepreneurs making money abroad. I'm sure there is some kind of political piece to all of this.

The Scandinavian countries are a marvel, high quality of life and an effective system. I do wonder what they do that we can't, but maybe it's a scale thing. The bigger the population the harder it is to make it finally tuned and working well.
 
Skills said:
...In most realistic terms you're not actually voting for corbyn to win if you vote labour...
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I think this point is what will stop Labour doing as badly as many of the polls suggest. People may not want Corbyn as PM, but I don't think they want to see the party destroyed. Plus it makes attacks by the Tories about coalitions with the SNP or whatever moot as well. I won't offer to eat my hat, but Id be amazed if the gap was anything like the 20 points we've seen in recent days.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
The Scandinavian countries are a marvel, high quality of life and an effective system. I do wonder what they do that we can't, but maybe it's a scale thing. The bigger the population the harder it is to make it finally tuned and working well.
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Nominal taxation rates of more than 50% and a 35% vat rate on luxury goods among other things. Or a more extreme version of the things that corbyn proposes that apprently, here, would lead to devastation.

They also have no commercial school system so its in EVERYONE's interest to have a good state schooling. And what do you know, they get it.
 
Corbyn has just made a very good speech. He came across almost electable. I'm sure the press will sort that out though.
 
"Britain needs a Labour government that is prepared to fight for people in every part of the country, our towns, villages, as well as big cities.

A Labour government that isn’t scared to take on the cosy cartels that are hoarding this country’s wealth for themselves. It needs a government that will use that wealth to invest in people’s lives in every community to build a better future for every person who lives here.

Because the Conservatives, drunk on a failed ideology, are hell bent on cutting every public service they get their hands on, and they will use all of the divide-and-rule tricks of the Lynton Crosby trade to keep their rigged system intact.

Don’t be angry at the privatisers profiting from our public services, they whisper - be angry instead at the migrant worker just trying to make a better life.

Don’t be angry at the government ministers running down our schools and hospitals, they tell us - be angry instead at the disabled woman or the unemployed man."
 
SteveJ said:
"Britain needs a Labour government that is prepared to fight for people in every part of the country, our towns, villages, as well as big cities.

A Labour government that isn’t scared to take on the cosy cartels that are hoarding this country’s wealth for themselves. It needs a government that will use that wealth to invest in people’s lives in every community to build a better future for every person who lives here.

Because the Conservatives, drunk on a failed ideology, are hell bent on cutting every public service they get their hands on, and they will use all of the divide-and-rule tricks of the Lynton Crosby trade to keep their rigged system intact.

Don’t be angry at the privatisers profiting from our public services, they whisper - be angry instead at the migrant worker just trying to make a better life.

Don’t be angry at the government ministers running down our schools and hospitals, they tell us - be angry instead at the disabled woman or the unemployed man."
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Full speech here

http://labourlist.org/2017/04/we-wi...e-gilded-elite-corbyns-first-campaign-speech/

He's doubling down on the anti-establishment approach, which is the right thing for him. However its going to take skill to make sure that middle class voters think they're part of his movement and not part of the establishment he's attacking.

I wish he'd spoken more about Brexit, though it may be that Labour are still debating the exact position internally.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Great first campaign speech from Corbyn. Came across really well.
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He has many faults, but this is home turf for him. The man can campaign like no other party leader, he's been giving stump speeches like that for 3 decades.

I said this before, but on the evening news you are going to see corbyn in the streets, giving speeches to thousands. You will see may at someones business with half a dozen employees who look like they would rather be anywhere else but don't want to lose their jobs. And because it is an election, the media will have to show it.

Will be interesting to see how that is seen. I saw corbyn speak at the stop the war march, its nothing like the media portrayal of him. I wonder how they will play it.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
He has many faults, but this is home turf for him. The man can campaign like no other party leader, he's been giving stump speeches like that for 3 decades.

I said this before, but on the evening news you are going to see corbyn in the streets, giving speeches to thousands. You will see may at someones business with half a dozen employees who look like they would rather be anywhere else but don't want to lose their jobs. And because it is an election, the media will have to show it.

Will be interesting to see how that is seen. I saw corbyn speak at the stop the war march, its nothing like the media portrayal of him. I wonder how they will play it.
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They'll snap a billion photos of him, pick the one where his mouth is slightly sideways and use nothing but said photo.
 
Silva said:
They'll snap a billion photos of him, pick the one where his mouth is slightly sideways and use nothing but said photo.
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Well they've been doing that with May too.

Or maybe they're choosing the best photos of May and they're still hideous.
 
Unmutual said:
Full speech here

http://labourlist.org/2017/04/we-wi...e-gilded-elite-corbyns-first-campaign-speech/

He's doubling down on the anti-establishment approach, which is the right thing for him. However its going to take skill to make sure that middle class voters think they're part of his movement and not part of the establishment he's attacking.

I wish he'd spoken more about Brexit, though it may be that Labour are still debating the exact position internally.
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I think he's being smart and knows the middle class liberals will go LibDem this election. Focusing on the working class opens up a potential coalition down the line if they both do well.
 
Silva said:
That's just her normal face mate, even in photos taken by her own team she looks completely gormless.
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She looks surprisingly realistic given that she's a lizard stuffed into an ill fitting human suit.
 
e49442878144bf586acafedfe8626fad.jpg


May on her day off.
 
Sly said:
Talking about being affraid of the opposition regarding brexit and then having people like David Davis, Liam Fox or Boris Johnson handling sensitive negotiations with the EU :lol:
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That's what I don't get too. These guys are in no way competent to negotiate a favorable Brexit deal. May herself also doesn't impresses me the slightest: She either talks empty bullcrap ('a red, blue and white Brexit that works for everyone') or she breaks promise after promise: A Brexit that works for everyone (feck you, Scotts, I don't care about you), I care for those who just manage (mind you, welfare cuts are good for you), etc. ... no snap elections (here we go).
 
Unmutual said:
Its a parody account, but it lampoons a running theme. I have no problem with you being inspired by Corbyn, but rather the idea that anyone that disagrees is because they believe a myth perpetuated by the right wing media.
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Which is fair, but there has been a concerted anti- Corbyn media campaign from even before he was elected that has become a self fulfilling prophecy. There are, of course, legitimate reasons to dislike Corbyn but there is also a general impression in the populace, which most would struggle to supply and substance too, that he is incompetent which has been at least partly fuelled by a sustained attack on him through the media (even including the Guardian).
 
altodevil86 said:
Corbyn has just made a very good speech. He came across almost electable. I'm sure the press will sort that out though.
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Just watched a bit of Sky News. The gal who was actually listening to Corbyn's speech gave a IMHO fair coverage. But the one in the studio and the guy who was asked to assess him were a bit crap.
 
11101 said:
And look where it's got us...

That kind of thinking is how people, companies and countries go bankrupt.

At some point there may be another recession, borrowing costs may spiral, our population may age, there may be a major war, etc etc. In reality all those are likely to happen.

A sensible policy would be to put some away for a rainy day (Norway, Japan etc) and make sure the debt remains within manageable limits. Ours is currently amongst the highest in the world and growing again. Others with high debt like the US know it's a problem and try to reduce it.
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Japan has a debt to GDP ratio of 250%. Congratulations on proving how clueless you are
 
Unmutual said:
Full speech here

http://labourlist.org/2017/04/we-wi...e-gilded-elite-corbyns-first-campaign-speech/

He's doubling down on the anti-establishment approach, which is the right thing for him. However its going to take skill to make sure that middle class voters think they're part of his movement and not part of the establishment he's attacking.

I wish he'd spoken more about Brexit, though it may be that Labour are still debating the exact position internally.
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Agreed. It's something he feels that passionate about that he can talk that confidently about it, he might just change a few opinions on his strength of character. What frustrates me, though I'll take it, is I think Corbyn is much more tolerant than this and wouldn't normally go for the throat in such fashion, but I think he knows he has too.

There are enough people in the country this line of thought will appeal to which could make a difference. He needs to go big on this which is his only chance.
 
11101 said:
And look where it's got us...

That kind of thinking is how people, companies and countries go bankrupt.

At some point there may be another recession, borrowing costs may spiral, our population may age, there may be a major war, etc etc. In reality all those are likely to happen.

A sensible policy would be to put some away for a rainy day (Norway, Japan etc) and make sure the debt remains within manageable limits. Ours is currently amongst the highest in the world and growing again. Others with high debt like the US know it's a problem and try to reduce it.
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By putting money away you know you mean taking money out of the economy right? You think thats a good time to do that?
 
While i am a labour voter, am i the only one who thinks that the £10 an hour minimal wage might leave people worse off, granted it would get me a pay rise, but at a time when we want company's to employ more people, not move abroad and have a serious issue with the amount of companies abusing the zero contract, its got the potential to cause a lot of problems.
 
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