General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
Oscie said:
Especially when we hear that the more people see of him the more they like him. If that was even vaguely true Corbyn and his team would have him debating Rod, Jane and Freddy if he was given a prime time platform to do so.
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Do you agree with what I wrote or not?
 
Tarrou said:
Why doesn't Corbyn go to the debates just because May won't? It'll be great for his campaign if he shows up and she doesn't. He's letting her off the hook.
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Because it'd turn into an attack peice on Corbyn whilst May avoids it. Worst case Boris turns up who people already have a low opinion on.

Of course you'd hope that other parties would focus on attacking the Tories but they have vested interests so won't.

Not to say it couldn't work but it'd be risky.
 
Smores said:
Because it'd turn into an attack peice on Corbyn whilst May avoids it. Worst case Boris turns up who people already have a low opinion on.

Of course you'd hope that other parties would focus on attacking the Tories but they have vested interests so won't.

Not to say it couldn't work but it'd be risky.
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Yeah it would but he gets that everywhere he goes anyway, and people would think May's a coward and scared to face him. I think that'd have a bigger impact.
 
Corbyn should 100% appear at the BBC leaders debate... preferably as a very late addition if he really wants to create a story around it and leave the other parties underprepared to attack him.

Then he should take every opportunity to call Theresa May a weak leader and accuse her of running scared... consistently asking Rudd why May wouldn't appear herself.
 
Lets be blunt, fallon is a liar.

He is also a crook.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...aimed-8300-too-much-in-mortgage-expenses.html

Between 2002 and 2004, Mr Fallon regularly claimed £1,255 per month in capital repayments and interest, rather than the £700-£800 for the interest component alone.
He began making the excessive claims after buying the Westminster flat for £243,000 in June 2002 and designating it as his second home.

Various other household expenses he claimed for after September 2004 included a £250 per month cleaning bill, which Mr Fallon reduced from £300 after being asked for a receipt.

At the time, MPs did not need to provide receipts for claims up to £250. In a letter to the fees office in March 2005, he said: “My cleaner has never provided receipts”.

In May 2005, he claimed £499 for a television, £69.50 for a digital box and £35 for a radio. Mr Fallon sold the flat in December 2006 for £295,000, making a profit of £52,000. He claimed £1,774.50 in legal fees relating to the sale. In the two months before the sale, he claimed £126 for boiler repairs, £170 for repairs to bathroom tiles, £282 for electrical repairs and £225 for carpet cleaning.

He then bought another flat in Westminster for £728,000. Soon after moving in, he claimed £1,795 for a bed, £1,500 for curtains and almost £1,000 for a freezer, washer-dryer and deep cleaner. The claim for the bed was reduced to £1,000.

He then began claiming the interest on the mortgage for his new flat, which came to about £2,100 per month — almost three times as much as at his previous property. Mr Fallon also shares a large house in his Kent constituency with his wife, Wendy. The house, which the couple bought in 1997, is about 28 miles away from Westminster. It is not mortgaged.
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How has someone that bent stayed out of prison.
 
Cheesy said:
Even if they were to get rinsed to the point of only getting, say, 6%, that'd probably be enough to cause a good number of seats to swing from Labour to the Tories due to the vote being split. Checked it out on ElectoralCalculus and something as low as that would cause around a 40-seat difference. Something more substantial (10-15%) would have an even bigger effect, and guarantee more Tory government.

The lack of brand recognition would significantly hamper any Labour breakaway, but I think they'd stand a decent chance of doing alright. They'd have some major, recognisable names who would presumably carry on as MP's in this hypothetical new party - again, some of them would likely still win their own constituency, and if they didn't it'd probably be the Tories who benefit.

There's ultimately got to be compromise within Labour. From both sides. The PLP and that ilk have to recognise they've not properly listened to the membership in recent times and that their attempts to undermine Corbyn from the moment he stepped into office were damaging. Likewise, Corbyn's supporters should be able to recognise that he's been highly unpopular and that the centre argument that they're better positioned to win elections does have some credence. In a PR system a breakaway would be fine, but in the current system it's just not viable.
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In just terms of names who would they have ? Isn't there a chance Clegg who I think is more well know than any of the centrist MP's in Labour might lose his seat. The biggest name would a returning mid 60's Blair and people hate him just if not more than Corbyn. Their politics is not only poison but would be constantly tearing itself part as it tries to find the ''centre'' in world with a right wing Tory Party and a left Labour Party.

Maybe I am underestimating them and the power of a shit ton of money but I really think they have absolutely nothing to offer
 
Tarrou said:
Do you agree with what I wrote or not?
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You said Corbyn should do the debates. I responded by suggesting that I also thought he should do the debates

Not entirely sure what the basis of your confusion is
 
ZupZup said:
Corbyn should 100% appear at the BBC leaders debate... preferably as a very late addition if he really wants to create a story around it and leave the other parties underprepared to attack him.

Then he should take every opportunity to call Theresa May a weak leader and accuse her of running scared... consistently asking Rudd why May wouldn't appear herself.
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If he goes I expect this will be his line. Has to be. May would look conspicuous by her absence if Corbyn's there. If he doesn't go then he's letting her off the hook.

But that said I thought the only thing she was doing was that BBC Question Time thing where they appear one at a time in front of an audience, which is still going ahead. Not sure if not turning up to a debate she was never scheduled to do really counts as 'pulling out'.
 
ZupZup said:
Corbyn should 100% appear at the BBC leaders debate... preferably as a very late addition if he really wants to create a story around it and leave the other parties underprepared to attack him.

Then he should take every opportunity to call Theresa May a weak leader and accuse her of running scared... consistently asking Rudd why May wouldn't appear herself.
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Who's going on instead of Corbyn?
 
Sweet Square said:
In just terms of names who would they have ? Isn't there a chance Clegg who I think is more well know than any of the centrist MP's in Labour might lose his seat. The biggest name would a returning mid 60's Blair and people hate him just if not more than Corbyn. Their politics is not only poison but would be constantly tearing itself part as it tries to find the ''centre'' in world with a right wing Tory Party and a left Labour Party.

Maybe I am underestimating them and the power of a shit ton of money but I really think they have absolutely nothing to offer
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I presume they'd have plenty of well-known names: Umunna, Kendall, Cooper, Benn, Jarvis etc. Not that I particularly rate them, or think they're anything great as such, but they'd certainly have a bit of pull. They'd have the majority of current standing MP's from the party, meaning they'd presumably form the opposition in some way.

All-in-all, it just strikes me as a bit...pointless? Their politics may be a 'poison' to you, but I'd argue they'd still represent more of your views in regards to Brexit, the environment, social values etc. They're better than the current Tory a lot, certainly, even if I'm not that fond of them myself. And if Corbyn loses next Thursday, while I don't think the current Labour policies should be swept aside with the party membership being ignored, I do think the left should also listen to the moderates. Compromise is needed from both sides.
 
Sweet Square said:
In just terms of names who would they have ? Isn't there a chance Clegg who I think is more well know than any of the centrist MP's in Labour might lose his seat. The biggest name would a returning mid 60's Blair and people hate him just if not more than Corbyn. Their politics is not only poison but would be constantly tearing itself part as it tries to find the ''centre'' in world with a right wing Tory Party and a left Labour Party.

Maybe I am underestimating them and the power of a shit ton of money but I really think they have absolutely nothing to offer
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You never know, they might put a reversal of the benefit freeze in their manifesto.
 
Cheesy said:
I presume they'd have plenty of well-known names: Umunna, Kendall, Cooper, Benn, Jarvis etc. Not that I particularly rate them, or think they're anything great as such, but they'd certainly have a bit of pull. They'd have the majority of current standing MP's from the party, meaning they'd presumably form the opposition in some way.

All-in-all, it just strikes me as a bit...pointless? Their politics may be a 'poison' to you, but I'd argue they'd still represent more of your views in regards to Brexit, the environment, social values etc. They're better than the current Tory a lot, certainly, even if I'm not that fond of them myself. And if Corbyn loses next Thursday, while I don't think the current Labour policies should be swept aside with the party membership being ignored, I do think the left should also listen to the moderates. Compromise is needed from both sides.
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#Cheesy4LabourMediator
 
Cheesy said:
I presume they'd have plenty of well-known names: Umunna, Kendall, Cooper, Benn, Jarvis etc. Not that I particularly rate them, or think they're anything great as such, but they'd certainly have a bit of pull. They'd have the majority of current standing MP's from the party, meaning they'd presumably form the opposition in some way.

All-in-all, it just strikes me as a bit...pointless? Their politics may be a 'poison' to you, but I'd argue they'd still represent more of your views in regards to Brexit, the environment, social values etc. They're better than the current Tory a lot, certainly, even if I'm not that fond of them myself. And if Corbyn loses next Thursday, while I don't think the current Labour policies should be swept aside with the party membership being ignored, I do think the left should also listen to the moderates. Compromise is needed from both sides.
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Id support any of them running on a similar manifesto. Although i don't think it will be one of those listed.

Im hoping there's not another bitter battle but a bit of recognition from both sides.

Won't happen but id be intrigued to see how events unfold should Corbyn win. Would the centrists just fall in line i wonder.
 
Smores said:
Id support any of them running on a similar manifesto. Although i don't think it will be one of those listed.

Im hoping there's not another bitter battle but a bit of recognition from both sides.

Won't happen but id be intrigued to see how events unfold should Corbyn win. Would the centrists just fall in line i wonder.
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They'd have to if he'd won. Hard to see how any would be stupid enough to kick up a fuss in that circumstance. The criticism of Corbyn is that he can't deliver a Labour government. If he delivers one it shuts everyone up. At least for a while.

Conversely if he doesn't win I don't think the anticipated postmortem of "In fairness it wasn't awful and even if it was it's everyone else's fault" will be a pretty sight for the Labour party in the summer.
 
Cheesy said:
I presume they'd have plenty of well-known names: Umunna, Kendall, Cooper, Benn, Jarvis etc. Not that I particularly rate them, or think they're anything great as such, but they'd certainly have a bit of pull. They'd have the majority of current standing MP's from the party, meaning they'd presumably form the opposition in some way.

All-in-all, it just strikes me as a bit...pointless? Their politics may be a 'poison' to you, but I'd argue they'd still represent more of your views in regards to Brexit, the environment, social values etc. They're better than the current Tory a lot, certainly, even if I'm not that fond of them myself. And if Corbyn loses next Thursday, while I don't think the current Labour policies should be swept aside with the party membership being ignored, I do think the left should also listen to the moderates. Compromise is needed from both sides.
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I mean poison in regards that no one wants to go near it. It's a few years old now but at least according to this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22555659 most people don't know their local MP(All I know is that our is a tory and that the labour one used to be a former Lib Dem, although he seems like a nice guy), there was group section of Labour voters done a few months back and no one knew who even Tim Farron was. Those names mean nothing without the Labour badge on them.

As for compromise it would be nice but I think the actions of certain people in Labour during the second leadership show they aren't willing.

Ubik said:
You never know, they might put a reversal of the benefit freeze in their manifesto.
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Will this be before or after the pledge to ''liberate'' the Middle East ?
 
Oscie said:
At what? It's really quite a bizarre exchange.
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I'm not doing this, I'm not 8 years old. You know the reason.

I enjoy the debate on here, and by all means reply to my posts if you'd like to debate them, but seeing as you're incapable of that I'd prefer you didn't.
 
Tarrou said:
I'm not doing this, I'm not 8 years old. You know the reason.

I enjoy the debate on here, and by all means reply to my posts if you'd like to debate them, but seeing as you're incapable of that I'd prefer you didn't.
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If I do so should I use the words 'I disagree with your post and would like to debate them' ?

I thought it was rather obvious I was agreeing Corbyn should do the debates when I expanded that if it's true that he's so popular with the public when seen by them he should jump at the chance. I didn't realise the point was too nuanced so as to start a row.

For the avoidance of doubt: We're having a disagreement.
 
Smores said:
Its a real shame we dont have Cooper as Home Sec
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There is a lot of talent in the Labour party. Whatever our own views of Corbyn it's a tragedy that people like her are on the backbenches and Diane Abbott and Richard Burgon are leading lights of the cabinet. And who's that creepy soft-spoken one with the beard? He's awful too.

Ubik said:
McDonnell did something similar, but he's better at lying about embarrassing stuff.
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Between him, Abbott and Corbyn, McDonnell is easily the best trained in terms of public speaking and handling himself in interviews.

Arguably he's the more hard-left than any of them but he presents himself much better. He seems to be a policy wonk too. Corbyn struggles to hammer May because rather than have much interest in the policy detail he seems to love the general direction of travel; speeches about vague aspirations etc. May would have had a more difficult time since becoming leader last year if she faced McDonnell across the dispatch box.
 
We're surrounded by politicians at the moment who are fairly weak, unprofessional and bad at their jobs. Yet a huge part of the vitriol and contempt is directly towards Diane Abbott. Britain really never does change..
 
One thing that stands out for me in this election is just how poor a crop of spokespeople there is on all sides. Disregarding their policies, as politicians and intellects the likes of Blair, Brown, Prescott, Major, Clarke and Heseltine would piss all over this lot. I get a feeling the future leading figures are trying to keep a low profile at the moment to avoid association with their debacles to come - Labour wipeout and Tory Brexit.
 
Kentonio said:
We're surrounded by politicians at the moment who are fairly weak, unprofessional and bad at their jobs. Yet a huge part of the vitriol and contempt is directly towards Diane Abbott. Britain really never does change..
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Because she's awful.
 
Ubik said:
Doesn't look uniform across all polls, YouGov has the Tories ahead of Labour by 5 and ComRes has them only 5 off the SNP (:lol:) Could do with a Panelbase of Scotland soon.

EDIT - As I post that I just saw this on Twitter, Labour have definitely jumped up but Tories still a bit ahead

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I saw that - but it's sruveymonkey which basically means ignore.
 
712 said:
One thing that stands out for me in this election is just how poor a crop of spokespeople there is on all sides. Disregarding their policies, as politicians and intellects the likes of Blair, Brown, Prescott, Major, Clarke and Heseltine would piss all over this lot. I get a feeling the future leading figures are trying to keep a low profile at the moment to avoid association with their debacles to come - Labour wipeout and Tory Brexit.
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Funny you should say that, I was just watching the video of Prescott talking to reporters outside the Corbyn campaign bus, and although I've never been a fan it was incredibly how he whipped up the energy in that group. People like him and Clarke were political giants compared to the media trained pygmies we have now.
 
Ubik said:
McDonnell did something similar, but he's better at lying about embarrassing stuff.
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He is a decent orator, but not sure the public warm to him, given he's left of Lenin.
Kentonio said:
We're surrounded by politicians at the moment who are fairly weak, unprofessional and bad at their jobs. Yet a huge part of the vitriol and contempt is directly towards Diane Abbott. Britain really never does change..
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I actually liked her on that show with Neil and Portillo. The had a somewhat weird, but charming chemistry.
 
Jippy said:
I actually liked her on that show with Neil and Portillo. The had a somewhat weird, but charming chemistry.
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Same. I think that's her best kind of platform, sitting actually talking like a real person, which probably also explains why she's lasted so long as a constituency MP. She just doesn't do well on the big stage in front of aggressive press.
 
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