General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%
  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%
  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%
  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%
  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%

  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
The human cost of more Tory rule isn't included in their intangible costings, unsurprisingly; I guess they feel it's of little account.

something something.. Live within our means..

*ignore the explosion in the deficit caused by cutting taxes on the wealthy, while seeing the spending power of the public cut by increases in VAT and devaluation of the pound due to Brexit*
 
Just as a response to some of the comments from last night, headline on the BBC website is "Rivals attack May for missing TV debate".

Oh how nice of them. Not like them to put out a bias headline before switching it is it.

On the other hand the sub story attached to that is "May: We can do great things".

Then in their 5 Key things 3 of them are Magic Money Tree, Clash on Immigration, Coalition of Choas. The only negative story for the tories is May not turning up apparently.
 
I could look it up I suppose (maybe in the morning), but does anyone know what our deficit and debt were when the NHS was founded and we built all those homes and introduced so much of the welfare state? I guess we must have been well flush then, right?

Actual figures mean little as you need to adjust them for inflation and so on to get a real terms equivalent.

However, when Attlee took office as PM we had a debt to GDP ratio of 250% (its currently about 90%) and he created the NHS and built 100,000 council homes a year, invested in infrastructure and rebuilt the country (literally in the case of many cities).
 
I take it you've deleted it because you saw they changed it, but for anyone that didn't the original last tweet here was worded as if people preferred a Tory win and now is on their feed as the public expects a Conservative win (but only 62% which seems quite low) which makes much more sense.
Yeah, I thought it looked really odd. Although by the time I had posted it they had already deleted the tweet, so wasn't showing up on here.
 
To understand that you need to understand how insurance works. It's all about premiums vs claims. If a healthy somebody is paying premium without using the NHS then that reserve is then spent on the individual using a NHS service.
Basically the government is transferring a large part of their expenditure to the private sector (i.e. insurance companies) and thus freeing up government funds for investments in the NHS like new hospitals or increased wages for NHS staff.

Ask yourself one simple question, if insurance was expenditure, then why exactly would any private insurance company exist?
 
I could look it up I suppose (maybe in the morning), but does anyone know what our deficit and debt were when the NHS was founded and we built all those homes and introduced so much of the welfare state? I guess we must have been well flush then, right?
It would be fiendishly difficult to calculate a comparison, factoring in inflation, increased population and longevity etc...
 
I don't know if this was posted yesterday, but Barry Gardiner was on form

 
Jesus Christ !



As others have pointed out its very clear what her tactics are at this point. Stay out of trouble, chuck dirt at Corbyn and hope its enough (it will be).

The mainstream don't report this behaviour unless its Corbyn doing the interview so she can get away with it.
 
Jesus Christ !



She really is the worst major political interviewee I've ever seen. The really scary part is that she must be being media trained behind the scenes. For her to be this bad, they basically must have come to the conclusion that she's so bad on her feet that constant repetition of simple lines and talking points is all she can handle. Pathetic.
 
As others have pointed out its very clear what her tactics are at this point. Stay out of trouble, chuck dirt at Corbyn and hope its enough (it will be).

The mainstream don't report this behaviour unless its Corbyn doing the interview so she can get away with it.
The Tories have taken a crow (or maybe a blue tit) and thanks to their press pals they've managed to persuade the electorate that it's actually an eagle.
 
Any news on whether last nights debates have galvanised the nation?
 
Ask yourself one simple question, if insurance was expenditure, then why exactly would any private insurance company exist?

Where did I say insurance is expenditure? By the way, I work in the insurance industry and most countries with a NHS have compulsory private health insurance.
 
This is extraordinary. I would expect Siri on my phone to come up with better answers.
 
Where did I say insurance is expenditure? By the way, I work in the insurance industry and most countries with a NHS have compulsory private health insurance.

You said..
Rams said:
Basically the government is transferring a large part of their expenditure to the private sector (i.e. insurance companies) and thus freeing up government funds for investments in the NHS like new hospitals or increased wages for NHS staff.

I'd love to hear your explanation for why a putting a part of the process into private hands, where they will certainly run it as a profit raising business will somehow save the government money. Because all I can see is that its going to cost more to the user because the private company will need to add a profit margin.
 
As others have pointed out its very clear what her tactics are at this point. Stay out of trouble, chuck dirt at Corbyn and hope its enough (it will be).

The mainstream don't report this behaviour unless its Corbyn doing the interview so she can get away with it.
She really is the worst major political interviewee I've ever seen. The really scary part is that she must be being media trained behind the scenes. For her to be this bad, they basically must have come to the conclusion that she's so bad on her feet that constant repetition of simple lines and talking points is all she can handle. Pathetic.
She wasn't very clear there was she? Murky.
The video isn't any better

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/thr...pm-encounter/story-30363961-detail/story.html
 
This is extraordinary. I would expect Siri on my phone to come up with better answers.

Siri is very clear about her superior interviewing skills, and fully expects your vote in the upcoming election to deliver a strong and stable iPhone.
 
She wasn't very clear there was she? Murky.

"Im absolutely clear, i have a plan to answer the important questions while the coalition of chaos led by Jeremy Corbyn squabbles over where to spend the money tree"

Do you think this training seeps into her daily life? Is she now incapable of ordering a coffee or answering her husband how her day went?
 
"Im absolutely clear, i have a plan to answer the important questions while the coalition of chaos led by Jeremy Corbyn squabbles over where to spend the money tree"

Do you think this training seeps into her daily life? Is she now incapable of ordering a coffee or answering her husband how her day went?
I'm very clear that I would be interested in having sex with you tonight Phillip, but I've also been very clear that I have a headache. Look, now is not the time to be having fun, we have a lot of work to do, and I have been very clear on that.
 
I'm very clear that I would be interested in having sex with you tonight Phillip, but I've also been very clear that I have a headache. Look, now is not the time to be having fun, we have a lot of work to do, and I have been very clear on that.

Ah you lose you answered the question
 
DBLqD9iXcAAc1p9.jpg:large
 
As others have pointed out its very clear what her tactics are at this point. Stay out of trouble, chuck dirt at Corbyn and hope its enough (it will be).

The mainstream don't report this behaviour unless its Corbyn doing the interview so she can get away with it.
its honestly getting to the point where she may as well just sit at home till the election watching yes minister on Netflix.
 
I'm sorry, but what has the amount an individual pays for their health care got to do with whether or not a country can afford a free for all public NHS??
It's not free for all at all.

It's the US model that's unsustainable as it incentivises crazy levels of (health care) consumption, with or without Obamacare. Using that as a model is barmy.
 
Without billionaire media moguls protecting their money and the promise of Leveson 2 being scrapped protecting journalists reputations, this Election would be an absolute annihilation by Labour.



It's worth noting that the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Telegraph, The Times and The Sun all have ridiculously good SEO. Search for pretty much any randomly selected two words from the dictionary and you'll get 5 Daily Mail articles on the front page and a few from the rest. Search for "Leveson 2" and funnily enough it's almost a complete blackout from those sources.

The Guardian and Independent cover it unsurprisingly and the only one mentioned above with an article is the Telegraph. Their angle? Leveson 2 probably won't happen because it will make a tonne of information available to the public and obviously that's a bad thing. You see journalists hate private information getting into public view, that's why they hack peoples phones and email accounts to get hold of it and that's why they constantly file freedom of information requests and bitch and moan about super injunctions.
 
They haven't offered the impossible - they've not offered anything at all. The idea that the uncertainty of Brexit offers a valid excuse for doing so is a load of shite. Every party can face uncertainty after an election; they're still expected to come up with costed plans as to how they intend to manage the economy. The Tories haven't bothered their arses to do so.

For what it's worth I think there's a lot that can be criticised concerning Corbyn's manifesto: it's perhaps too ambitious and a free-market leaning voter would argue it may drive business away from Britain during the Brexit process, but the whole Labour argument is centred around the idea that austerity and cuts haven't worked for the general working population as a whole, and that something substantial is needed to reverse this. That's fair enough. You may disagree with it, but at least they've come up with a costed, albeit ambitious and perhaps overly ambitious plan for what they want to do.

The Tories haven't done any of that. Rudd quite literally defended it by saying people should look at her parties record...which is...well, what the feck does that mean? They've pretty much neglected policy in this election because they presumed they'd win, and because they're trying to argue we have to have May negotiating Brexit because...well, I'm not sure, really.
Great post. Perhaps unneccesary uses of the word perhaps in the second paragraph. :boring:
 
Last edited:
Had a sniff round election forecasts other than Yougov's. All seem to point to a large Tory majority (80-120). Think we are all living in denial if we think Corbyn still has a chance. Suppose we should all vote anyway just to see.
 
Had a sniff round election forecasts other than Yougov's. All seem to point to a large Tory majority (80-120). Think we are all living in denial if we think Corbyn still has a chance. Suppose we should all vote anyway just to see.
Yeah, but we have to live in hope right?
 
You said..


I'd love to hear your explanation for why a putting a part of the process into private hands, where they will certainly run it as a profit raising business will somehow save the government money. Because all I can see is that its going to cost more to the user because the private company will need to add a profit margin.


Yes, it will cost more for the user. But I believe that some kind of privatization is inevitable because the government on its own cannot sustain funding the NHS without raising ridiculous amount of taxes or borrowing even more crazy amounts of money. The fact of the matter is that the NHS will get more & more expensive as we live longer and make even more use of the NHS. On the other hand, if the public actually pays for the NHS that will mean that additional funds will become available to invest in the NHS. I believe that the quality of the service the NHS provides far out ways whether or not the NHS is free at the point of use. I also believe a fair system should be in place, whereby for the people who can afford it will pay for the NHS and the people who can’t afford it won’t pay for the NHS, and thus still ensuring that everybody gets the healthcare they require. Vote for me!
 
It's not free for all at all.

It's the US model that's unsustainable as it incentivises crazy levels of (health care) consumption, with or without Obamacare. Using that as a model is barmy.

The NHS is free at the point of use. What I'm saying is that 'free at the point of use' is not sustainable.
 
The NHS is free at the point of use. What I'm saying is that 'free at the point of use' is not sustainable.
Free at the point of use isn't the same as a system creating unlimited demand though. Demand is significantly stunted by waiting lists for procedures, the availability of doctors and surgeons, and significant areas of rationing.

What I don't know is if our model creates higher levels of demand than a public insurance model like they have in some European countries?