General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
Abizzz said:
Yeah, there's no easy solution at the moment. I don't see any way that she can hold on until the end of the negotiations though, and unless she or her replacement totally fecks up the end of them will be much more important then the beginning. If i'm not mistaken there's 21 months until the deadline from article 50, would rather be in turmoil in months 21,20 and the beginning of 19, then say 10,9 and 8...
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it a fair point, but a few months back every one was saying it was going on about how it might be hard to work this all out in 2 years and how unlikely an extension was?

its just a fecking mess, every part of this has been mishandled!

from calling a referendum with out a clear message of what Brexit would be, to then not putting party politics aside to create a cross party team to deal with these discussions, to then saying your ready to start negotiations pushing the article 50 button then calling a General election that would happen 9 days before the most important discussions since world war 2 are about two start.

what every your Political beliefs, what ever your stance on Brexit.... we should all be fecking livid at the way this has been handled. But now we have to make the best of a really shitty situation, and the only person who seems vaguely ready and able to lead these discussions is May, do we roll the dice again and hope the next leader gets thier shit together quicker? is their any reason to think they would? considering pretty much everyone involved in this has ballsed it up so far! who is gonna step in who has the authority to lead us in these discussions?.........FECK THIS IS MAKING ME ANGRY!!!!!!! the more i think about it the more it just pisses me off!!!!!!

I dunno!
 
Sometimes I get the feeling that people living in mainland Great Britain know extremely little, and care even less, about the most volatile part of their country, Northern Ireland. Would that be fair?
 
Does Davidson have any moral or formal authority over the Scottish MP's?
 
2cents said:
Sometimes I get the feeling that people living in mainland Great Britain know extremely little, and care even less, about the most volatile part of their country, Northern Ireland. Would that be fair?
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100% fair.
 
2cents said:
Sometimes I get the feeling that people living in mainland Great Britain know extremely little, and care even less, about the most volatile part of their country, Northern Ireland. Would that be fair?
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Yes. I don't forget about them deliberately, but their political separation (making them often largely irrelevant in elections) and not being part of the mainland mean I sort of do it automatically.
 
Abizzz said:
Does Davidson have any moral or formal authority over the Scottish MP's?
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Not really, no. They're Scottish Conservative MP's and she's Scottish Conservative leader but for the most part the actual technical definition of the party is just a branch office.
 
2cents said:
Sometimes I get the feeling that people living in mainland Great Britain know extremely little, and care even less, about the most volatile part of their country, Northern Ireland. Would that be fair?
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Yep.
 
2cents said:
Sometimes I get the feeling that people living in mainland Great Britain know extremely little, and care even less, about the most volatile part of their country, Northern Ireland. Would that be fair?
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I studied 20th century political history at Uni so i'm fairly comfortable i have a reasonable understanding of the situation as we had some modules on it, but by i'm by no means an expert, and not really up on the current politics over there.

I'd also say that since the bombs stoped exploding the general populations interest(mine too) in northern Ireland has dwindled.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
It was a good campaign and a success in relative terms but in real terms, the bottom line, is that Labour lost and they needed a bogus manifesto to achieve that.
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It wasn't a bogus manifesto. It wouldn't have been 100% deliverable, but manifestos never are. It was a leftist manifesto which redrew the boundaries between Tory and Labour. Boundaries that needed redrawing.

Who's better off after last night? It certainly isn't the Tories. That's a Labour win in the long run, as the PM is dangling by a thread, Scotland is back in play, and the most Tory of Tory seats turned red. If people were expecting a Labour win, then I could see this as a loss, but the exact opposite was the expectation. This was supposed to be an annihilation of Labour, yet over the last seven weeks the Tories' stock has dwindled and Labour's has risen. Not a majority, but significant gains, which equates as a win considering Labour hadn't made any gains since 1997.
 
Nytram Shakes said:
it a fair point, but a few months back every one was saying it was going on about how it might be hard to work this all out in 2 years and how unlikely an extension was?

its just a fecking mess, every part of this has been mishandled!

from calling a referendum with out a clear message of what Brexit would be, to then not putting party politics aside to create a cross party team to deal with these discussions, to then saying your ready to start negotiations pushing the article 50 button then calling a General election that would happen 9 days before the most important discussions since world war 2 are about two start.

what every your Political beliefs, what ever your stance on Brexit.... we should all be fecking livid at the way this has been handled. But now we have to make the best of a really shitty situation, and the only person who seems vaguely ready and able to lead these discussions is May, do we roll the dice again and hope the next leader gets thier shit together quicker? is their any reason to think they would? considering pretty much everyone involved in this has ballsed it up so far! who is gonna step in who has the authority to lead us in these discussions?.........FECK THIS IS MAKING ME ANGRY!!!!!!! the more i think about it the more it just pisses me off!!!!!!

I dunno!
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Yeah i've been pretty much annoyed ever since witnessing the mishandling of the remain campaign and the arguments of the leave campaign. Half of the things we complain about now are May's making though, so I really don't see how she's uniquely qualified, the opposite if anything once you consider her 'My way or no way' approach on display up until now.

Cheesy said:
Not really, no. They're Scottish Conservative MP's and she's Scottish Conservative leader but for the most part the actual technical definition of the party is just a branch office.
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Reiver said:
No
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Thanks.
 
2cents said:
Sometimes I get the feeling that people living in mainland Great Britain know extremely little, and care even less, about the most volatile part of their country, Northern Ireland. Would that be fair?
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I would say that is absolutely the case.

Got to be honest, I am one of those people.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
How much do the people of NI know about politics in Greater Manchester?
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Not really comparable though is it, politics in Greater Manchester isn't dominated by sectarian/nationalist factions with a history of slaughtering each other in the streets, fighting the British army, trying to join a neighbouring country, etc. The political stakes in NI are considerably higher than anywhere else in the UK, yet it seems that nobody gives a shit.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
It wasn't a bogus manifesto. It wouldn't have been 100% deliverable, but manifestos never are. It was a leftist manifesto which redrew the boundaries between Tory and Labour. Boundaries that needed redrawing.

Who's better off after last night? It certainly isn't the Tories. That's a Labour win in the long run, as the PM is dangling by a thread, Scotland is back in play, and the most Tory of Tory seats turned red. If people were expecting a Labour win, then I could see this as a loss, but the exact opposite was the expectation. This was supposed to be an annihilation of Labour, yet over the last seven weeks the Tories' stock has dwindled and Labour's has risen. Not a majority, but significant gains, which equates as a win considering Labour hadn't made any gains since 1997.
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It was a bogus manifesto, one that was issued safe in the knowledge that it would never have to be implemented.

Who loses? Me, you and most people. The political landscape is fecked, Brexit is even more messy. I voted for Corbyn in the end but am not an acolyte or devotee to any party. I have felt annoyed more than anything today.

@2cents

Fair point.

@DiseaseOfTheAge

I highly doubt that.
 
Abizzz said:
Yeah i've been pretty much annoyed ever since witnessing the mishandling of the remain campaign and the arguments of the leave campaign. Half of the things we complain about now are May's making though, so I really don't see how she's uniquely qualified, the opposite if anything once you consider her 'My way or no way' approach on display up until now.
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for me it goes beyond politics, (of course the politics annoy me too) but if you take politics and beliefs out of it you just look at how badly the pure logistics have been managed!

I mean even people who want a conservative government and a hard Brexit can't think the way this has all been handled and planned out time and logistic wise can think this is the best way to make their views a success!

every single person living in this country should be pissed of at the way this has been managed!
 
Classical Mechanic said:
It was a bogus manifesto, one that was issued safe in the knowledge that it would never have to be implemented.

Who loses? Me, you and most people. The political landscape is fecked, Brexit is even more messy. I voted for Corbyn in the end but am not an acolyte or devotee to any party. I have felt annoyed more than anything today.
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I agree that it was issued under the circumstances you describe, but parts of it would have been delivered had the extremely unlikely event of a Labour majority occurred.

I agree, it is fecked. And I still think Corbyn should bring centrists into the fold, and prepare for his own exit (unless an election is to be called within a year or so) to provide the best platform for Labour going forward. But the Tories being weaker than they were is only a good thing. I don't think this coalition will last, and Labour will have a very real chance of winning the next election if they can get their shit together and form unity amongst the ranks.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
People arguing Labour needs a broader appeal are missing the point entirely. The reason Labour failed so miserably in 2015 was because of the perception that there wasn't much difference between the two major parties, and people went with the incumbent over an awkward opposition leader few people cared for.

To regain its identity, Labour had to set out a manifesto diametrically opposed to the Tories' vision. That meant a larger state, more NHS funding, student tuition fees, triple lock, etc. The point was to demonstrate the difference between choices. Vote Tory, get A. Vote Labour get B (instead of 2015 when A and B seemed awfully similar). Labour has been tainted by the Blairite faction ever since Iraq. Only now is it starting to recover, and that was a direct consequence of moving to the left in order to show actual opposition. In the future the party can encompass more of a centrist outlook, but to have done so for this election would have been stupid beyond belief and just replicated the same mistakes of 2015.
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And the result of this is he managed to equal Gordon Browns election result against a disasterous Tory campaign that beat him out, in every metric.

I mean we talk about the media campaign against Corbyn, the social media and celebrity led bollocks against the Tories was just as bad. Millionaire comedians who live in the states telling us to vote against the Tories while they aren't the ones faced with paying through the arsehole if what they want comes to pass.
 
2cents said:
Not really comparable though is it, politics in Greater Manchester isn't dominated by sectarian/nationalist factions with a history of slaughtering each other in the streets, fighting the British army, trying to join a neighbouring country, etc. The political stakes in NI are considerably higher than anywhere else in the UK, yet it seems that nobody gives a shit.
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Yep.

In early January 1994, the UDA released a document calling for ethnic cleansing and repartition, with the goal of making Northern Ireland wholly Protestant.[73] The plan was to be implemented should the British Army withdraw from Northern Ireland. Areas in the south and west with strong Catholic/nationalist majorities would be handed over to the Republic, and those Catholics left stranded in the "Protestant state" would be "expelled, nullified, or interned".[73] The story was printed in The Sunday Independent newspaper on 16 January.[74] The "doomsday plan" was based on the work of Dr Liam Kennedy, a lecturer at Queen's University Belfast[73] who in 1986 had published a book called Two Ulsters: A Case for Repartition although it did not call for ethnic cleansing. The UDP's Raymond Smallwoods said "I wasn't consulted but the scenario set out is a perfectly plausible one".[73] The DUP's Sammy Wilson stated that the plan "shows that some loyalist paramilitaries are looking ahead and contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity"[73]
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These are the people the Tories are getting into bed with. It's gonna be a clusterfeck.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Labour, the RAWK of the political World. A loss is, somehow, a win. :wenger:
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When the election was called the projection was a Tory landslide with a majority of as many as 150. Indeed that's why the election was called. They called the election with a majority. They now have no majority.

Corbyn ran a brilliant campaign and has changed politics in this country for the better.

The Tories are the real losers here.
 
2cents said:
Sometimes I get the feeling that people living in mainland Great Britain know extremely little, and care even less, about the most volatile part of their country, Northern Ireland. Would that be fair?
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I don't know a lot but I care. I want Northern Ireland to be stable. Bringing Northern Ireland into Westminster politics isn't a way to keep it stable though.

How we make Northern Ireland Politics stable again is beyond me but a Tory DUP alliance is not it.
 
Ducklegs said:
And the result of this is he managed to equal Gordon Browns election result against a disasterous Tory campaign that beat him out, in every metric.

I mean we talk about the media campaign against Corbyn, the social media and celebrity led bollocks against the Tories was just as bad. Millionaire comedians who live in the states telling us to vote against the Tories while they aren't the ones faced with paying through the arsehole if what they want comes to pass.
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He stopped the hemorrhage from Labour to Conservative. That's worth a lot, and it's the first time Labour's fortunes have been on the up (in terms of gains) in two decades. It's not a win in terms of forming a government, but it's a win in terms of being better able to do so at the next election. Parties always look at the long term.

The media is a different issue, but there are also prominent right wingers on social media, and right wing business interests own the print and broadcast media, so I wouldn't say it came out level in terms of negative to positive coverage.
 
Pink Moon said:
When the election was called the projection was a Tory landslide with a majority of as many as 150. Indeed that's why the election was called. They called the election with a majority. They now have no majority.

Corbyn ran a brilliant campaign and has changed politics in this country for the better.

The Tories are the real losers here.
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Agreed but his point is still pretty valid. It's very much the "yea but they spent £200m this Summer so everyone expected them to win, no one expected us to only lose by this many".

That's fair enough but no one will remember the close run losers. The Spurs of politics if you will.
 
finneh said:
Agreed but his point is still pretty valid. It's very much the "yea but they spent £200m this Summer so everyone expected them to win, no one expected us to only lose by this many".
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Yeah but you're comparing politics with football. In football there is one loser and one winner. Nothing more, nothing less. Politics isn't like that. In this black and white world of politics why is May (the apparent winner) who is squirming to hold onto her job?

It's worth noting that the Tories didn't 'win' either.
 
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