Slightly confused by the logic in your edit. No one is suggest ill intent just that this is a simple change that can (even minorly) improve the lives of a marginalised group.
Has political correctness actually gone mad?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Slightly confused by the logic in your edit. No one is suggest ill intent just that this is a simple change that can (even minorly) improve the lives of a marginalised group.
Once in a while you could just take things at face value you know, instead of looking for some sort of angle.
I'm not looking for an angle. I'm literally confused as to why you'd bring up what was or wasn't said during a terrorist attack in a discussion about tube announcements.
I suppose it's difficult to understand the last bit for a majority of us, well definitely me. That there are groups of people who upon hearing this news and thought "Finally...they are no longer addressing us as Ladies and Gentlemen"
I get that, but no one's asking you to 'get it' in this instance, really. Just to accept that those people do exist and to live and let live.
That's an very good concept, but those people haven't just accepted that an announcer says "Ladies and Gentlemen" and they have not " live and let live. "
Well that's not the same thing is it because in this instance they're being excluded.
And at the end of the day it's a minor change that inconveniences nobody.
Have people genuinely been annoyed at hearing 'Ladies & Gentleman' though? Is that a thing?
I mean, if so, I'm all in favour of changing it.
I mean, if so, I'm all in favour of changing it.
It's one of those things where my first response to anyone being annoyed about this would be "first world problems" but at the end of the day it's a change that harms absolute noone. So if it makes life even a tiny bit easier for what must be very vulnerable and sensitive souls then I can't see the problem.
Honestly the people getting annoyed by the change are worse than the ones getting annoyed by "Ladies and Gentlemen". Unlike some serious cases of political correctness which damage people's lives, no is getting hurt here.
They have, yes.
You do tend to feel quite vulnerable when large parts of society have a negative view of the way you live your life and some of them are not shy of telling you this, despite the fact they're just a stranger walking past you in the street.
Fun fact - My years spent discussing trans rights with y'all is now on my CV. I'm an LGBTQ+ issues expert, with experience in campaigning on social media...
Absolutely. It's just a stretch to imagine anyone feeling emotionally bruised by hearing "ladies and gentlemen" over a PA. But, like I said, changing the wording harms absolutely nobody. So...
Should it come moments after being mocked by a stranger, for not conforming to a binary gender standard of appearance, it would feel rather salt in the wound, I'd suggest. 'This person wants me to feel shit and now the bloody train announcement excludes my identity'.
I don't feel it takes much imagination to sympathise, frankly.
It would be more fun if they just let London's teenagers do the announcements. "Yo yo yo wagwan fam red line will be delayed for an hour cos some wasteman tried to top himself yano."
I just hope "mind the gap" survives the possibility of offending pre-op M2F transexuals.
Not as bad as strangers in the street shouting abuse but jokes like this just further the feeling that many in our society find trans people more worthy of derision than understanding.
Those who are offended, and requested to change the announcement and similar things. What is the end goal? I'm sure now this has changed, they will move onto the next thing and raise their concerns.
The majority of us can sit here and say "The announcements changed, big deal it's not bothering my life" but where does it end? The story about the person wanting to keep his babies gender unknown on a birth certificate. Doctors not able to say what the sex is?
1 - people don't like changes being made to the status quo, the usual reaction is to reject it
2 - most of things that are being changed, were put in place at a time which wasn't beneficial to everyone equally.
Therefore you try to change things to include more people, then you'll get an instant reaction
'why does this need to be changed?' usually from the very people who have benefited from society that has included them in every situation, therefore they haven't lived being excluded from things, no matter how minuscule.
Whereas if you're on the receiving end of that change, however small - you'll feel included.
Therefore if the change isn't affecting you, why do you care about it?
2 - most of things that are being changed, were put in place at a time which wasn't beneficial to everyone equally.
Therefore you try to change things to include more people, then you'll get an instant reaction
'why does this need to be changed?' usually from the very people who have benefited from society that has included them in every situation, therefore they haven't lived being excluded from things, no matter how minuscule.
Whereas if you're on the receiving end of that change, however small - you'll feel included.
Therefore if the change isn't affecting you, why do you care about it?
Their end goal was to change the announcement.
The trans rights movement has no more in the way of a unified set of goals than most movements.
That's a bit of a cop out...
You what? That's clearly the only thing they would all agree on. Of course there is no other aim they would all share.
We both acknowledge there is a gender neutrality movement yes? Their aim is not to just change the London Underground announcement.
That fight is ongoing.As long as nobody jumps down your throat or starts a Twitter campaign against you if you stand up to address a crowd and without thinking blurt our "ladies and gentlemen."
I guess that's the worry. Not that people might change the words to be inclusive, but that anyone who forgets to do it, or didnt know they were supposed to do it, will be pilloried for it. Not saying that is a big risk, and im sure when the Twitter hordes come after you it wont be for something innocent and trivial, but some people might worry they could say the wrong thing accidentally and then its game over.
Oh, you'd have to define 'gender neutrality' before we can even get started on that one. It means a number of different things to a number of different people.
Are we just thinking of non-discrimination based on gender, or our Dwazza's dream of a moomoo utopia, where gender is a thing of the past?
Gender neutral message on the tube should be "oi you lot!"
This would be my personal preference.
Well I think this wouldn't fall under non-discrimination based on gender? More so gender being a thing of the past. I'm all for non-discrimination but there appears to be a rise of outrage aimed at anything labelled boy/girl/man/woman/gentleman/lady
If we have to refer to a trans woman and trans man as a lady and man respectively, then shouldn't ladies and gentlemen still be appropriate?
Implying there are only two genders is clearly going to be viewed as discrimination by those who feel they do not fit in to the binary system.
As for the rest, you can only take things on an issue by issue basis and combat views as and when you disagree with them. None of us can be expected to comment on every view that happens to be held by someone we agreed with on one other topic.
Not everyone feels they are either male or female. Many feel they are either both or neither.
Fair enough. I suppose it's more aimed at societies failure to progress rather than any individual in particular using those terms. I mean it's just customary and clearly no harm is intended. So yeah, I'm in favour of it after giving it some thought.
I personally feel I'm a frog. And I'll be offended if anyone tells me otherwise
People used to think they were Napoleon. Don't tend to get listened to unless thousands of people feel the same way, alas.
Good luck, though. It sounds difficult.
Give it a few years..
So you're French?
Wait, so some transsexuals get annoyed at hearing ladies and gentlemen through some speakers?
Why if I may ask?
Why if I may ask?
"Listen Up feck Wads" should be the new way of starting the announcements. Insults everyone equally.