It's hard to make this point without sounding biased due to being a United fan, but it's genuinely, genuinely a thing that people seem to ignore the amount of money Pep and City spend. Especially compared to us. Even if we spend almost as much as they do, they are bizarrely seen as underdogs (because they were in Div 1 not so long ago I suppose?) while we are this evil mega-corporation trying to buy the title against Pep the artiste's revolutionary bunch of total-footballers. It's weird. I don't like it.
Manchester city... ffp?
- Thread starter sun_tzu
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
We've had shit loads of stick in the media about our spending over the past 9 years mate.
That's really unfair on Pep as it doesn't take into account he's only ever taken over rubbish squads that under any other coach would have been relegated. You need to spend big bucks to win things with the crap he's inherited over the years.
Don't worry he is not getting it. He still can't explain that despite the Billions they have spent well over a £1 + Billion quid since 2008 that they have very little to show for it on the pitch in success. It was a very simple question one that highlights why in any business or sporting scenario can only be seen as an abject failure.
They've done pretty well to be fair.
Posting this helpful diagram again because it's still accurate and relevant.
No, they haven't. Not for the money spent.
I think there's a lot of truth in what you say.
As for David Luiz, at the time no, but I thought he was superb last season.
It surely is only a matter of time until a major crack down happens. I think other Big clubs have not gone down the same path because they can see the writing on the wall. Even Abramovich has gone legit. City published their accounts in feb/march of 2014 with a number of eyebrow raising financial carousels and obfuscation. These included things like:
1) payments to the club from the Manchester City Women's team and the new New York City franchise.
- These payments have been justified on the grounds that the payment is for use of the club coaching and infrastructure, in addition to the use of the City brand. The payment from the women's team is particularly interesting. The club set up a separate limited company for the women's team which is a 100% a loss-making entity, it has paid the main club millions for the use of the City brand (plus use of infrastructure).
Here is a financial experts opinion:
"As all the benefit from the City branding of the women's team will be received by City, it is difficult to see the commercial justification for this payment. With the New York City transaction, Man City gain millions from this transaction despite the fact that the US franchise has yet to kick a ball. "
This is just a snippet of the fraudulent enterprise AKA Man City. Imagine the owner creating another separate Limited company which Looses exponentially more than it makes but pumps in enough of their own money into it that they pay his other club (Man City) millions for the "rights" to use it "imaging rights" as if it was worth anything in any case.
This is fraud 101.
1) payments to the club from the Manchester City Women's team and the new New York City franchise.
- These payments have been justified on the grounds that the payment is for use of the club coaching and infrastructure, in addition to the use of the City brand. The payment from the women's team is particularly interesting. The club set up a separate limited company for the women's team which is a 100% a loss-making entity, it has paid the main club millions for the use of the City brand (plus use of infrastructure).
Here is a financial experts opinion:
"As all the benefit from the City branding of the women's team will be received by City, it is difficult to see the commercial justification for this payment. With the New York City transaction, Man City gain millions from this transaction despite the fact that the US franchise has yet to kick a ball. "
This is just a snippet of the fraudulent enterprise AKA Man City. Imagine the owner creating another separate Limited company which Looses exponentially more than it makes but pumps in enough of their own money into it that they pay his other club (Man City) millions for the "rights" to use it "imaging rights" as if it was worth anything in any case.
This is fraud 101.
are you confused?
what is doing "well" in your book?
I am reading that they spent about a 1billion between 2008-2012 period. God knows how much they have spent in total since about 1/3 in defenders alone last season and in the current transfer window.
- They have won the league 2 times (one of them on goal difference)
- 1 x FA Cup
- 2 X League
- 1 x CL Semi final
I gave you some basic figures on the financial side which you have completely ignored, instead you are alledging slightly comical claims of 'fraud'.
Forgive me, as your written English is not very good, what is it exactly about City's business model or footballing achievements that, in your eyes, is 'abject failure'?
I'd love to see that £1b from 08 to 12 and who it went on.
Going by transfers in we spent £510m in from 08/09 season to 11/12, £560m if you add in 12/13.
Other money went on building training facilities, youth centre etc..
2 leagues, 1 Fa Cup, 2 league cups is 5 trophies.
In that time the league has become more competitive.
Chelsea with 3 titles, United with 3, ourselves with 2 and Leicester with 1.
In that time Chelsea and Arsenal have 3 Fa Cups each, City, Wigan and United 1 each.
With regards league cups its United 3, City 2, Birmingham, Liverpool, Chelsea and Swansea 1
In total domestic trophies its:
United: 7
Chelsea: 7
City: 5
Adding in European Trophies:
Chelsea: 1 CL
United: 1 EL
Hardly lagging behind the other big teams by too much are we.
I forgot that makes it any less of an achievement. We should put an asterisk next to our Champions League win in 2008 as it was won on penalties.
Haha too right. He turned Messi, Iniesta, Xavi into journeyman level players to world beaters too. He also basically won the World Cup for Spain such is his genius.
It's amazing how barely anyone mentions Pep's or City's spending yet United it's a daily topic and still being bashed over the Pogba fee. Ballbag last year with his "Pep needs 500m the media are unfair" and basically the same month "United spend a gazilion pounds and Celta nothing and it was close..Oh Mourinho sucks".
Where's the white text?
Like I said I am talking about the total investment by the owner which is way past the 1 Billion mark. But please do keep ignoring that...
How about the fact that the owner/club can't generate external revenue so have to create different Limited companies and proxy the funds via them to try and get round the rules. The fact that they can't attract that type of investment because no one associates citeh with commercial success.
By the way, your posts are naive. If you think that because the city owner managed to con chinese investors into buying part of the club means that HE profits and is not indicitve of success for the club. When looking at football related investment from China you can see how they invest their money as in other football related matters where they buy garbage players and pay them millions a week. Its just money laundering.
When you use the word 'citeh' to mock those that come from Manchester, despite purporting to support a club from Manchester, its time to withdraw from the conversation. Perhaps one day you will visit the city and enjoy meeting the locals, some will support United and some will support City, all of them will have a Mancunian accent.
Ok so you have chosen to run away rather than come to terms with the fact that your club is clearly in breach of FFP and despite all the money spent you are behind the big clubs
Perhaps one day you could visit Dubai and meet the locals and thank them for the money they are propping you up with...
Yep. Bizarre how United fans of all people use the term "Citeh" when having a pop at us, given the context of it's origins and how it was one of several examples used to mock the Mancunian accent. Reminds me of that YouTube vid of southern-based United fans screaming "You facking Manc cants!" at a coach load of City fans as it went past them prior to the FA Cup semi at Wembley in 2011.
Ok so you have chosen to run away rather than come to terms with the fact that your club is clearly in breach of FFP and despite all the money spent you are behind the big clubs
Perhaps one day you could visit Dubai and meet the locals and thank them for the money they are propping you up with...
Clearly in breach of FFP? I think 2014 wants it's thread back. Where's that Titanic pic by the way?
How has the City business model been a success? You have posted a profit in one season since the takeover. This is on the proviso that all your income is legit. As we all know this isn't true, so in effect you have made huge losses every year. I'm starting to think that you believe that City run on a completely different economic structure to the rest of the world.
In regards to City's footballing achievements. If you were Mansour would you believe you'd had value for money thus far?
They pay Sergio and Yaya under the table in UAE.
FFP is hogwash - they have no power and haven't they refunded City?!
I am quite amazed that some people trying to defend City's finances as actual earnings. They have found ways round the FFP rules. Using sponsorship that would not be a legal related party on paper but it's still the owners business. Using franchising income from all their other exploits round the world.
It's no different to Starbuck and Amazon using these techniques to dodge tax. As long as you pay the right accountant.
I have two daughters who support city (and one who supports united), so get to talk a lot about them and they do make some good points that i have taken on board.
By the by, if we had a womens team, then I would probably have three daughters supporting united, but there is a separate thread for that
They've got the nucleus of a top quality team now and I'd expect this £300m summer spend won't be repeated every year by any means.
Manchester City and Chelsea epitomise everything that is wrong about the Premiership today: sugar-daddy clubs who can't stand on their own two feet, but need to buy their way to success using dodgy money.
I don't regard a single one of their trophies as legitimate since the respective owners took over. They've merely bought cheapened and tarnished baubles for cash.
I don't regard a single one of their trophies as legitimate since the respective owners took over. They've merely bought cheapened and tarnished baubles for cash.
I don't regard a single one of Tottenham's trophies as legitimate since Sheikh Mansour took over City, either.
You are I think 6 trophies ahead of them since 2008, including the FA Community Shield and 2 League Cups. You are also probably at least one billion pounds ahead of them in money spent. Well done.
As it happens, Chelsea were many times more successful than spurs even before the Abrahmovic era. But your bitterness is well known around the forums so carry on.
Really? Many times more successful?
You'd won one fewer top division league titles than Spurs, 5 fewer FA Cups, one fewer League Cups and one fewer European trophies.
Your trophies since 2003 are worthless, bought on the back of Russian gangster money. Your club is a disgrace to the game of football.
Dont you like to rant a lot about trends of the recent past.
Heres a trend, in 10 years before 2003, Chelsea had won 6 trophies to spurs 1. That's 6 times more.
Lol, oh mate, this kind of opinion went out of fashion about five years ago, simply because it became pretty obvious over time that every fan in the world would love to have their club bought out by owners who can basically buy success for them. You're not a "proper" fan for being against rich benefactors, we're not modern football scum for enjoying it.
I'm not sure on the current status of FFP, but I'd imagine there are creative ways to circumvent it. For instance, City's value today will be far higher than what it was in 08 or whenever the takeover happened. Sponsorship deals with companies linked to the owners increases club turnover which allows said clubs to spend more (I think).
On the whole, I think Chelsea and City's buyouts have been good for the league. Competition is good, and it's not as if we're paupers.
On the whole, I think Chelsea and City's buyouts have been good for the league. Competition is good, and it's not as if we're paupers.
Sorry but that is mad and completely untrue. You barely even have more major honours than Spurs now.
Also, there's no way the current TV deal would be as high as it is without the increased competitiveness brought about by City and Chelsea's emergence. We've probably benefitted indirectly from these takeovers as the league is more lucrative (more viewers), which makes us more lucrative as the biggest club in the league.
You care about "fashion", I don't. And your "love" of having owners who simply buy success for you is destructive of the soul of sport. Moreover, I wonder how much you'd "love" it if 5 more sugar-daddies waltz into another 5 other Prem clubs, pump £2 billion into each and relegate City to mid-table cannon-fodder.
What is it with people making nonsense blanket generalisations in this thread when they're clearly not true? Plenty of fans would hate their club to follow your quoted outlined path. The whole feckin' thing is nauseating. But regardless of your questionable football stance, a billion dollars poured into a football club from a country that has large portions of its migrant work force living below the poverty line should not sit well with anyone.
The bitterness in this thread. Hilarious.