Has political correctness actually gone mad?

Kostur said:
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Tucker might be a massive twat, but that woman just seems completely off the rails. How the flying feck could anyone suggest breastfeeding is unethical and unnatural? We're mammals FFS. What i really don't understand though is how this undermines feminism? And it's not natural because there exists lactation specialists? Riiiight..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_crawl

Hell, many women get a lot of pain if they don't breastfeed or pump milk regularly. I guess those women could just pump it out and give it too the cat or something, would that make them happy?

Yes a of course a man can feed a baby with a bottle, anyone can. Yes, only (born) males are capable of producing sperm and only (born) females are capable of producing eggs and milk, that's not biological determinism, that's just a fact of life.
 
Bobcat said:
Tucker might be a massive twat, but that woman just seems completely off the rails. How the flying feck could anyone suggest breastfeeding is unethical and unnatural? We're mammals FFS. What i really don't understand though is how this undermines feminism? And it's not natural because there exists lactation specialists? Riiiight..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_crawl

Hell, many women get a lot of pain if they don't breastfeed or pump milk regularly. I guess those women could just pump it out and give it too the cat or something, would that make them happy?

Yes a of course a man can feed a baby with a bottle, anyone can. Yes, only (born) males are capable of producing sperm and only (born) females are capable of producing eggs and milk, that's not biological determinism, that's just a fact of life.
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In all fairness I don't know the Tucker guy but it's not really him that I've had a problem with :lol: She spouting some utter bullshit and the very end of the video pretty much encompasses how dumb she is. That's why I'll always have a problem with the modern feminists, if it's not 'breastfeeding in public is completely normal' it's 'breastfeeding is not normal!111' shit. There's always something, arguing just for the sake of arguing. Going from suffragettes to this, yeah, there must've been some quite wrong turns taken.
 
Adebesi said:
"Loving is natural."
"Can we just take a few steps back..."
"No."

Also, did she say women didnt breast feed in the 70s? Jesus Christ.
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Yeah, apparently they didn't during mediaeval period either, it's just the fad of the last 10 years to piss off feminists and offend somebody. Stupid babies.
 
Her argument renders the word "natural" completely meaningless. There is pretty much nothing that some people somewhere cant do. Some people cant walk. Some people cant breathe without the help of a machine. Her argument implies that those things therefore cannot be called natural.
 
Adebesi said:
Her argument renders the word "natural" completely meaningless. There is pretty much nothing that some people somewhere cant do. Some people cant walk. Some people cant breathe without the help of a machine. Her argument implies that those things therefore cannot be called natural.
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I am always surprised that people get so hung up in language.
That said it is equally natural for a guy to feed a baby with a bottle as it is to breastfeed for a women. The word natural is meaningless in this context. Any consistent/logical definition of the word includes both acts.
 
Nice of childless feminists to language police on behalf of mothers. I'm sure they really appreciate it.
 
Bobcat said:
Tucker might be a massive twat, but that woman just seems completely off the rails. How the flying feck could anyone suggest breastfeeding is unethical and unnatural? We're mammals FFS. What i really don't understand though is how this undermines feminism? And it's not natural because there exists lactation specialists? Riiiight..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_crawl

Hell, many women get a lot of pain if they don't breastfeed or pump milk regularly. I guess those women could just pump it out and give it too the cat or something, would that make them happy?

Yes a of course a man can feed a baby with a bottle, anyone can. Yes, only (born) males are capable of producing sperm and only (born) females are capable of producing eggs and milk, that's not biological determinism, that's just a fact of life.
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Kostur said:
In all fairness I don't know the Tucker guy but it's not really him that I've had a problem with :lol: She spouting some utter bullshit and the very end of the video pretty much encompasses how dumb she is. That's why I'll always have a problem with the modern feminists, if it's not 'breastfeeding in public is completely normal' it's 'breastfeeding is not normal!111' shit. There's always something, arguing just for the sake of arguing. Going from suffragettes to this, yeah, there must've been some quite wrong turns taken.
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Adebesi said:
"Loving is natural."
"Can we just take a few steps back..."
"No."

Also, did she say women didnt breast feed in the 70s? Jesus Christ.
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She's far too shrill and irritating to make her argument seem in any way convincing but there is actually a sensible point in there somewhere. There's a whole load of emotional blackmail around the whole "breast is best" thing and new mothers are often made to feel like failures if they either can't or don't want to breast-feed their kids. It can get quite nasty actually, especially when "lactivists" get involved and start to try and portray giving your baby a bottle of formula as basically the same thing as force-feeding them coca cola and skittles.

I think the intention of the study was to try and remove some of the overly emotional language from the discussions had with new mums about the choices involved in feeding their babies. I mean, obviously breast-feeding is natural but it's probably an unhelpful word to use as it portrays every other choice as being "unnatural" which is where a lot of this guilt-tripping starts.

Yer wan in the video is so crap at explaining this side of the debate it makes you wonder if she was deliberately chosen as a shrieking patsy so the viewers can laugh at silly feminists and their daffy notions. It is being broadcast on Fox News after all.
 
I got told that Baa Baa Black Sheep is now 'Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep' due to political correctness? Is this true?
 
Spoony said:
How is that racist??
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Carefully manipulated, out of context and inflammatory content
+
modern day twitteratti who react before they get full facts or without proper thought
=
Fuax outrage and fake news. Clicks and likes all round.


Its a well known and practiced formula for propoaganists.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
She's far too shrill and irritating to make her argument seem in any way convincing but there is actually a sensible point in there somewhere. There's a whole load of emotional blackmail around the whole "breast is best" thing and new mothers are often made to feel like failures if they either can't or don't want to breast-feed their kids. It can get quite nasty actually, especially when "lactivists" get involved and start to try and portray giving your baby a bottle of formula as basically the same thing as force-feeding them coca cola and skittles.

I think the intention of the study was to try and remove some of the overly emotional language from the discussions had with new mums about the choices involved in feeding their babies. I mean, obviously breast-feeding is natural but it's probably an unhelpful word to use as it portrays every other choice as being "unnatural" which is where a lot of this guilt-tripping starts.

Yer wan in the video is so crap at explaining this side of the debate it makes you wonder if she was deliberately chosen as a shrieking patsy so the viewers can laugh at silly feminists and their daffy notions. It is being broadcast on Fox News after all.
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That's a fair point and i agree that women should not be lambasted for choosing not to breatfeed if they want, but i see this as a very personal thing and i can't quite see how this is an issue for feminism.

There are plenty of judgemental arseholes out there, and this "mission" feminism has taken upon itself to be some kind of thought police is doomed to fail. If you jump over to the other side of the spectrum, there have been plenty of times feminist have been downright nasty towards women who does not fit into their mold of what a modern woman should be like. For example those who choose to be stay at home moms.

Now i don't say they should, i think women should work, but if you can afford it it's their bloody choice
 
VorZakone said:
Unilever is being criticized for this ad. Racist or not?
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In itself and if you watch it all the way through, it doesn't seem racist. I suspect the team who do the Dove ads are probably mortified by that interpretation as well, they've been one of the brands who've worked on diversity - of ages, body types and skin colour in their ads.

The trouble is if you only see the opening seconds, or worse still the opening still photos it would have a different impact. Then, it brings to mind the history of advertising including black looking kids becoming white kids when washed with the right soap, and products being sold even now to whiten skin tone.
 
I am the woman in the 'racist Dove ad'. I am not a victim

Then the first Facebook ad was released: a 13-second video clip featuring me, a white woman, and an Asian woman removing our nude tops and changing into each other. I loved it. My friends and family loved it. People congratulated me for being the first to appear, for looking fabulous, and for representing Black Girl Magic. I was proud.
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http://archive.fo/t8YwD

Freakin' Russians editing ads.
 
"Yeah but how do you know the club didn't make her say that"
 
Kostur said:
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This is probably milk formula companies lobbying to change societal expectations in order to make profit as much as it has anything to do with 'political correctness'. Milk formula companies also push American pediatricians/nurses to encourage formula within a day if the new mother can't make milk straight away. For first time mothers it takes a while for milk to come in. Naturally the babies birth weight drops but the baby isn't in any danger. When the baby gets breast milk it receives a more natural easily digestable nutrients that has the mothers immunity in it. It's far more healthy for the baby. If the baby receives formula instead of mother's milk the mother will never produce enough milk to stop using baby formula.
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
This is probably milk formula companies lobbying to change societal expectations in order to make profit as much as it has anything to do with 'political correctness'. Milk formula companies also push American pediatricians/nurses to encourage formula within a day if the new mother can't make milk straight away. For first time mothers it takes a while for milk to come in. Naturally the babies birth weight drops but the baby isn't in any danger. When the baby gets breast milk it receives a more natural easily digestable nutrients that has the mothers immunity in it. It's far more healthy for the baby. If the baby receives formula instead of mother's milk the mother will never produce enough milk to stop using baby formula.
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Can't speak for the American healthcare system but it's the exact opposite in UK/Ireland. There's an enormous amount of pressure to breast-feed and new mothers are actively discouraged from using formula. That last sentence is wrong, by the way. My wife gave top up formula feeds to our eldest for the first couple of months but he was exclusively breastfed after that until he was weaned.

On the more genera point, yes, breast really is best. Especially when it comes to newborns; who get a lot of important antibodies via the colostrum. Beyond that, the data gets a bit more vague and the negativity aimed at mothers who choose not to breastfed is IMO unfair.
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
This is probably milk formula companies lobbying to change societal expectations in order to make profit as much as it has anything to do with 'political correctness'. Milk formula companies also push American pediatricians/nurses to encourage formula within a day if the new mother can't make milk straight away. For first time mothers it takes a while for milk to come in. Naturally the babies birth weight drops but the baby isn't in any danger. When the baby gets breast milk it receives a more natural easily digestable nutrients that has the mothers immunity in it. It's far more healthy for the baby. If the baby receives formula instead of mother's milk the mother will never produce enough milk to stop using baby formula.
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Dare I say, its natural?

I agree with the general point Pogue makes that people who cant breast feed, or just dont want to for whatever reason, shouldnt be made to feel bad about it. But neither do I see a problem in saying breast milk is preferable if that choice works for you.
 
Bobcat said:
That's a fair point and i agree that women should not be lambasted for choosing not to breatfeed if they want, but i see this as a very personal thing and i can't quite see how this is an issue for feminism.

There are plenty of judgemental arseholes out there, and this "mission" feminism has taken upon itself to be some kind of thought police is doomed to fail. If you jump over to the other side of the spectrum, there have been plenty of times feminist have been downright nasty towards women who does not fit into their mold of what a modern woman should be like. For example those who choose to be stay at home moms.

Now i don't say they should, i think women should work, but if you can afford it it's their bloody choice
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I think the brilliant Dr Peterson should spend his entire life visiting all the western universities & 'educate' the young men & women of what really awaits them in the real world. & more importantly, what consequences await them if they fall into the ideological clutches of extreme left-wing extremism.

 
Pogue Mahone said:
Can't speak for the American healthcare system but it's the exact opposite in UK/Ireland. There's an enormous amount of pressure to breast-feed and new mothers are actively discouraged from using formula.
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I know I'm British but my ex was American so I've seen labour wards and aftercare in both healthcare systems. They also push first time mothers to have a C Section if they're in labour for 24 hours, so most births there are by C section. I'm unsure if they make money out of C Sections but it sort of stands to reason.

Pogue Mahone said:
That last sentence is wrong, by the way. My wife gave top up formula feeds to our eldest for the first couple of months but he was exclusively breastfed after that until he was weaned.
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I stand corrected, it's difficult though because the breast will only make more milk if it's constantly emptied. My ex could never fully feed our daughter on breast after starting with formula because she couldn't produce as much as the baby wanted and she didn't want a hungry crying baby.

Pogue Mahone said:
On the more genera point, yes, breast really is best. Especially when it comes to newborns; who get a lot of important antibodies via the colostrum. Beyond that, the data gets a bit more vague and the negativity aimed at mothers who choose not to breastfed is IMO unfair.
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Yea I mean my partner couldn't handle the constant neborn feeds of our second child so we went for combi-feeding.

While it will come across as judgemental I think avoiding breast feeding completely or giving up too soon isn't giving your child the best start. But in places like America where they don't have the same maternity benefits, some mothers get 2 weeks off I believe. If they have to work and put their child in nursery they can't breast feed.

Adebesi said:
Dare I say, its natural?

I agree with the general point Pogue makes that people who cant breast feed, or just dont want to for whatever reason, shouldnt be made to feel bad about it. But neither do I see a problem in saying breast milk is preferable if that choice works for you.
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'Can't breastfeed' generally can if they give it enough time, it just takes along time to start, get the right technique and is painful and can become very painful.

It's ironic because going back 30 odd years my aunts in-laws considered breast feeding 'disgusting'. I think travelling communities still generally hold this view.
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
Can't breastfeed' generally can if they give it enough time, it just takes along time to start, get the right technique and is painful and can become very painful.

It's ironic because going back 30 odd years my aunts in-laws considered breast feeding 'disgusting'. I think travelling communities still generally hold this view.
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Ha. And I laughed at her for saying people didnt breast feed in the 70s - maybe, if you arent too literal minded about it, she had a point, that it was less fashionable then. I dont really know about that. I know I was breast fed in the 70s, but maybe the majority werent.

I know a couple of people who have had a lot of trouble with breast feeding and have given up and its been a big stress for them, but again I dont think making out the two options are equally good in all ways is the answer. Just like I wouldnt make out being in a wheelchair is just as good as walking to try and make people in wheelchairs feel better about their disability.
 
Adebesi said:
Ha. And I laughed at her for saying people didnt breast feed in the 70s - maybe, if you arent too literal minded about it, she had a point, that it was less fashionable then. I dont really know about that. I know I was breast fed in the 70s, but maybe the majority werent.

I know a couple of people who have had a lot of trouble with breast feeding and have given up and its been a big stress for them, but again I dont think making out the two options are equally good in all ways is the answer. Just like I wouldnt make out being in a wheelchair is just as good as walking to try and make people in wheelchairs feel better about their disability.
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:lol: I can see the ad campaign now. "Walking is tiring. Why walk, when you can chill out on your arse instead?")
 
I think the Right are trying to ridicule political correctness due to sinister motives. In the 70s/early 80s it was considered okay to use the P word on television. Racism was more common and more tollerated. Political correctness was brought in order to not mock people for their inherent characteristics. Today you have public figures who flirt or indulge in racism as branded 'politically incorrect' or 'alt right', when in fact they're simply racist biggots. Ridiculing political correctness is a way of minimising racism and biggotry.

redman5 said:
I think the brilliant George Carlin got political correctness spot on with this piece.

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So just to clarify you want children who are struggling in school to be labelled stupid and be mocked so they believe they'll never amount to anything? And hence they'll give up because 'they're stupid anyway'. That's essentially what Carlin is calling for there. He hasn't actually bothered examining what language or communication teachers have with parents, because if he'd have bothered to do that he'd actually realise he has no actual point.
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
I think the Right are trying to ridicule political correctness due to sinister motives. In the 70s/early 80s it was considered okay to use the P word on television. Racism was more common and more tollerated. Political correctness was brought in order to not mock people for their inherent characteristics. Today you have public figures who flirt or indulge in racism as branded 'politically incorrect' or 'alt right', when in fact they're simply racist biggots. Ridiculing political correctness is a way of minimising racism and bigotry.
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Agreed.

Unfortunately, the left is making this easier for them by a failure to pick their battles and constantly taking people/institutions to task over what should really be non-issues. For me, that's the most worrying thing about all the examples of over the top sensitivity in this thread. It's not about any real risk of to our freedom of speech or thought but because of the ammunition it provides to the right.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Agreed.

Unfortunately, the left is making this easier for them by a failure to pick their battles and constantly taking people/institutions to task over what should really be non-issues. For me, that's the most worrying thing about all the examples of over the top sensitivity in this thread. It's not about any real risk of to our freedom of speech or thought but because of the ammunition it provides to the right.
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I blame Twitter.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Agreed.

Unfortunately, the left is making this easier for them by a failure to pick their battles and constantly taking people/institutions to task over what should really be non-issues. For me, that's the most worrying thing about all the examples of over the top sensitivity in this thread. It's not about any real risk of to our freedom of speech or thought but because of the ammunition it provides to the right.
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Who on the left though? It's not major politicians or leaders of mainstream movements. It's an obscure individual that the right wing media give a platform to in order to make it seem like liberals are 'the loony left'.

Other than that it's about changing some terms to make any references to groups of people inoffensive. But I don't see people being attacked for using the word 'disabled' for instance.
 
Adebesi said:
I just spent the last 20 minutes reading through that old Social Media: A Force For Good? thread from a year or so ago. That was a great thread, not sure why it died after 5 pages, it deserves to be as long as this one.
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I think it just got filed under “aged caftards railing against the inevitable” and died a quiet death. Pity really. I’ve read a load of fascinating pieces recently about how harmful all this stuff is.

Here’s a good ‘un from last week.

There’s a bloke called Tristan Harris who used to be “chief ethicist” (I think?) at Google who is really interesting on this whole “battle for our attention” thing going on right now. He’s very concerned and is adamant we need to start fighting back or we’re in deep doo doo. Check out his interview with Sam Harris as a good starting point.
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
Who on the left though? It's not major politicians or leaders of mainstream movements. It's an obscure individual that the right wing media give a platform to in order to make it seem like liberals are 'the loony left'.
.
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Completely agree. People have this bizarre abstract idea of the ''Left'' which doesn't mean anything and as you said in most cases we are talking about individuals.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think it just got filed under “aged caftards railing against the inevitable” and died a quiet death. Pity really. I’ve read a load of fascinating pieces recently about how harmful all this stuff is.

Here’s a good ‘un from last week.

There’s a bloke called Tristan Harris who used to be “chief ethicist” (I think?) at Google who is really interesting on this whole “battle for our attention” thing going on right now. He’s very concerned and is adamant we need to start fighting back or we’re in deep doo doo. Check out his interview with Sam Harris as a good starting point.
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Interesting. And ties in with this thread as well if you read right to the end. Thanks.

(Hope you enjoyed the dopamine hit from seeing someone had replied to one of your posts.)
 
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