Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Stanley Road said:
I agree, will the eu agree? if they don't then they need to come up with a better solution.
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Nope, it's our problem. We can't expect to end freedom of movement with the European Union while simultaneously retaining freedom of movement with another EU country. What would your solution be?
 
I Believe said:
Oh I see, 'biggest first' (otherwise known as the law of the Road) that's very democratic, I thought every country had a veto? How can any country have a slightly higher say? Come on Paul, Germany holds sway because it is the wealthiest country, the paymaster, it will dictate the direction of all the important parts of EU policy and that will always be intrinsically to protect the value of the euro, in relation to Germany's output.
That's the reason why, if we stayed in the EU we would not be forced into joining the euro zone as such, but all the EU policies introduced would certainly not favour the pound over the euro and we would be at a disadvantage with Sterling. Eventually majority voting will have to happen in the EU, with the power of veto restricted to only specific issues, e.g. like preventing other countries joining the EU. If the EU does not accept majority voting then it will grind to a halt.
Hence because of this eventuality, Britain would lose the power to opt out, or alternatively would find itself opting out of so much it becomes merely a spectator, also it would not have its rebate recognised and would come under great pressure to eventually join the Euro zone.

Retaining our own currency is vitally important, its a barometer of how the country is doing, Brexit has contributed to its fall, but as you said it was over valued because a lot of the jobs created by the Tories are fleeting, uncertain, seasonal, they come and go, involve zero-hours, or are low paid jobs and undertaken in many cases by low skilled immigrants, doing the jobs that the Brits apparently don't want to (certainly not at low rates and zero hours anyway) do and probably most of whom will return home when the work runs out. One of the reasons comrade Jeremy has opposed the EU for most of his political life was because it was seen as a source of cheap labour, which undermined the British workers negotiating position...apparently!
Being in the EU has allowed the Tories (and Blair) to get away with it, once outside the EU any crutch like excuses British politicians make about employment etc. will ring hollow and the public, should it wish to, can vote out the miscreants, but which of course we can't do the same with the EU commissioners!



Sorry Paul this is ludicrous, there has been a problem in the Island of Ireland for centuries, admittedly involving the UK, but long before Brexit and who knows Brexit might well turn out to be a catalyst for finding a permanent solution.
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I can't keep explaining how the EU works, you'd better look it up which Brexiters should have done before deciding to destroy their country's economy.
I didn't say the Pound was overvalued, the Brexiters did.
It was funny when the pound recovered for a short while to around €1.19/£1 and you had a stream of Brexiters so proud, coming on here saying see it hasn't collapsed even though is was over €1.40 two years ago, they went silent when it went back down again because apparently currencies go up and down, well I never knew this after 30 odd years in the business. No, it doesn't matter whether at the moment it goes up and down a few cents, yes currencies fluctuate it's when the trend is down down down.
You do realise the Euro has been in force for over 15 years, the Uk were doing better than the rest of the EU until the Brexit vote, was this because of the Euro? Have you noticed it's not doing quite so well since. We've still some way to go to the cliff edge if the UK decides to jump off.

As for voting out people, you do know their are elections in the EU, I know you've been told there isn't. Did you know you don't vote in the House of Lords, you don't vote for who will be your ministers, you have no say at all. Perhaps people don't want a bumbling fool like Davis to determine the future of their country, sorry don't have a choice.

Of course there's been a problem in Ireland but neither side were planning on changing anything at the moment, Brexit decided that they would change it but typical of Brexit they know how to destroy but offer nothing as a solution.
Davis and even the DUP now say they need to know what the future trade deals will be before having a solution for the Irish border. As per everything else been repeated ad nauseam , if the border remains soft then the Uk remains to the customs union. Uk says they're not going to stay in the customs union therefore the UK are closing the border. There are no other solutions unless the North and South unite and the North is no longer part of the UK. Guess what - the Uk will remain in the customs union.
 
We have a Tory government hell bent on delivering Brexit and to hell with the consequences and a Labour front bench who seem determine that nobody is going to stop them. Depressing as feck.

On the major issue of our time the difference between the two front benches is 'We think we can shoot ourselves in the head better than you can'.

If we had an opposition who actually OPPOSED Brexit and wanted to represent the majority of people who voted for them and the 48% at the last referendum then I think the government wouldn't be able to get away with half the shit they have done. But McDonnell and Corbyn want out of the EU as much as Rees-Mogg and those on the hard right of the Tory party. They want a different sort of Brexit, but Brexit none the less.

Competence of our negotiations isn't helped by fact Tories know that if ever they get into a sticky position, Corbyn will simply whip his MPs to support them in a vote. Given where most Labour voters/members it's utterly bewildering that their own front bench are, for all the rhetoric, giving succour to the hard Brexit Tories.
 
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Stanley Road said:
Does anyone here have a solution to the Irish border, everyone seems good at talking about it but there can only be a few solutions

open border
hard border
soft border
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Current open border is fine. I really doubt any EU national even Bulgarians and Romanians (no disrespect meant to them) will be looking to work illegally in the UK. As long as the Irish are not a part of the Schengen it all works fine.

The only problem I could see potentially arising would be if some EU country decided to hand out their citizenship to the recent mass arrivals and they started coming to the UK via Ireland illegally. The chances of this are minute and given that there are more than 1.5 million illegals in the UK already, the problem would still be small.
 
Stanley Road said:
I agree, will the eu agree? if they don't then they need to come up with a better solution.
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The EU already agrees. In fact the principle that there shouldn't be a hard border is one of the few things everyone seems to agree on.

The question is how the UK plans to avoid creating one in its persuit of Brexit.
 
I really don't buy the argument that the UK would ever have come under pressure to join the eurozone. Maybe a bit of pressure, but never irresistible pressure. Never the kind of pressure that meant it might actually happen. It just wasn't on the cards, and the prospect of it was actually getting increasingly remote, if anything.
 
Adebesi said:
I really don't buy the argument that the UK would ever have come under pressure to join the eurozone. Maybe a bit of pressure, but never irresistible pressure. Never the kind of pressure that meant it might actually happen. It just wasn't on the cards, and the prospect of it was actually getting increasingly remote, if anything.
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It seems to be a very british fantasy. Do Swedish and Danish share that fear?
 
JPRouve said:
It seems to be a very british fantasy. Do Swedish and Danish share that fear?
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The British certainly seem worried about it on their behalf, but I don't know what they themselves think. It's part of our Messiah Complex. We were protecting all the little countries from the monoculture juggernaut, but we couldn't have held on much longer. Once we're out nobody will be able to protect them, the EU will swiftly become the forth reich.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
In reality the positives will take 10 years to come to fruition and it depends on what deal an be achieved. One benefit, depending on your point of view, has been the effect on the house prices in London.
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What positives?

Housing affordability is an issue in many places but damaging your economy to limit it isn't worth the sacrifice
 
Adebesi said:
I really don't buy the argument that the UK would ever have come under pressure to join the eurozone. Maybe a bit of pressure, but never irresistible pressure. Never the kind of pressure that meant it might actually happen. It just wasn't on the cards, and the prospect of it was actually getting increasingly remote, if anything.
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Yep - utter crap. Although in a few years when our economy is in the toilet and we beg to rejoin things might be different.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
It depends on your circumstances, as I said. Manufacturing orders are at a 30 year high too, great if you are in that game.
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Manufacturing will be decimated as much of it services Europe. New investment will dry up as well as the alternative of setting up within the EU will make more sense.
 
Wibble said:
Not necessarily, it all depends on what deal can be achieved.
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Even if we manage to stay in the trading block the net cost will be more than the current cost of full membership. Madness.

Plus May, Boris and Davis will continue to feck up negotiations.
 
Adebesi said:
I really don't buy the argument that the UK would ever have come under pressure to join the eurozone. Maybe a bit of pressure, but never irresistible pressure. Never the kind of pressure that meant it might actually happen. It just wasn't on the cards, and the prospect of it was actually getting increasingly remote, if anything.
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JPRouve said:
It seems to be a very british fantasy. Do Swedish and Danish share that fear?
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I beg to differ. Since 1992 every country joining the EU, as part of the accession package, has had to agree to join the Euro. Of the nine that have not yet adopted the Euro only two of them the UK and Denmark negotiated opt out clauses. The remaining 7 are legally bound to adopt the Euro. There has been some acceptance of slowing down given the 2008 crisis but the expectation of the EU is that the remaining 7 will join. Sweden meets the necessary criteria now but has used the deliberate ploy of refusing to join ERMII so that it is able to argue that it does not fulfil the necessary criteria requirements but the pressure is on.

Long term how the deuce can anyone seriously suggest going forward that either Denmark or the UK would be able to maintain their current positions. In theory yep but in practice I very much doubt it.
 
Cheesy said:
Nope, it's our problem. We can't expect to end freedom of movement with the European Union while simultaneously retaining freedom of movement with another EU country. What would your solution be?
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Leave as is like the last bloke said. I offered 3 posibilities, if the eu dont like that then thats their issue.
 
The Outsider said:
Looks like Spain might be approaching a crisis over funding it's pensions:

http://investmentwatchblog.com/will-spain-be-the-first-to-default-on-pensions/
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When you said you didn't get your information from the Daily Express, this makes things more clear - on the same site
Some examples - "just in" - "Muslims riot in Brussels" this is about Morocco's World Cup qualification over a week ago
or maybe - "Second migrant wave to Europe Immanent" with a picture similar to Farage's famous one - at least you would have thought they could spell imminent
 
Virgil said:
I beg to differ. Since 1992 every country joining the EU, as part of the accession package, has had to agree to join the Euro. Of the nine that have not yet adopted the Euro only two of them the UK and Denmark negotiated opt out clauses. The remaining 7 are legally bound to adopt the Euro. There has been some acceptance of slowing down given the 2008 crisis but the expectation of the EU is that the remaining 7 will join. Sweden meets the necessary criteria now but has used the deliberate ploy of refusing to join ERMII so that it is able to argue that it does not fulfil the necessary criteria requirements but the pressure is on.

Long term how the deuce can anyone seriously suggest going forward that either Denmark or the UK would be able to maintain their current positions. In theory yep but in practice I very much doubt it.
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I'd say it's the other way round. In theory we were supposed to join. In practise it was never going to happen. Has anyone suggested such a thing in the last, what, 15 years? I honestly don't remember reading a single article, or hearing a single speech, that made any reference to the UK joining the euro. I'm not challenging you to dig one out, I'm sure you can if you look hard enough, but this is not any kind of sustained pressure. There was no expectation. Didn't that bullshit renegotiation Cameron did even set in stone that we wouldn't be railroaded into any kind of ever closer union?

I'll tell you what it is, it's Project Fear. "Vote Leave or we'll have to join the euro." it's bollocks.
 
Stanley Road said:
Leave as is like the last bloke said. I offered 3 posibilities, if the eu dont like that then thats their issue.
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We can't leave it as it is when we want to end freedom of movement though. How's a UK-border issue being created exclusively by the UK not our problem?
 
Adebesi said:
I'd say it's the other way round. In theory we were supposed to join. I'm practise it was never going to happen. Has anyone suggested such a thing in the last, what, 15 years? I honestly don't remember reading a single article, or hearing a single speech, that made any reference to the UK joining the euro. I'm not challenging you to dig one out, I'm sure you can if you look hard enough, but this is not any kind of sustained pressure. There was no expectation. Didn't that bullshit renegotiation Cameron did even set in stone that we wouldn't be railroaded into any kind of ever closer union?

I'll tell you what it is, it's Project Fear. "Vote Leave or we'll have to join the euro." it's bollocks.
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France is one of the countries with an exemption and I have never heard anything that puts that into question. Never.
 
Adebesi said:
Sorry, I'm being dumb I'm sure, what has France for an exemption from? Aren't we talking about the euro?
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Yes, a part of the territory doesn't use the Euro, French Polynesia. It's an interesting trivia because it's never mentioned, in France we technically have two currencies the Euro and the Franc Pacific.
 
JPRouve said:
Yes, a part of the territory doesn't use the Euro, French Polynesia. It's an interesting trivia because it's never mentioned, in France we technically have two currencies the Euro and the Franc Pacific.
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Really interesting, didn't know that.
 
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