Westminster Politics

Some Remainers want there to be a second referendum, some want there to be a meaningful Parliamentary vote than can reverse the whole thing. Others just hope the government comes to their senses, realises it's a ridiculous idea and abandons it altogether.

Different means, same ends. There's a correlation in the logic: we all want to stop Brexit.

Preferable to pretending that your leaving the EU, single market and customs union is disastrous for Britain but my leaving the EU, single market and customs union would be good for Britain. That's where the real disingenuousness lies. It's actually fairly ridiculous how successful the cheerleaders and sycophants have been trying to convince people that the position outlined in the first sentence of this paragraph represents two polar opposite alternatives. But that's literally where we are now; it's the People's Front of Judea only this time it's not a comedy sketch.
 
Oscie said:
Oh I don't then Smith will be missed at all. It's more the symbolism of the whole thing; sacking one of the most anti-Brexit MPs for spurious reasons despite his view being shared publicly by other members of the shadow cabinet and closer to the membership's views than the leaders. All happening on a day the leader is in hot water over comments defending an allegedly antisemitic artist.

The lengths some people will go to wilfully suspend their cynicism is impressive. I think an earlier poster had it right, we're now in an era where people genuinely do have a 'defend at all costs' attitude towards their favourite politicians. Farage, Trump and Corbyn are probably the three biggest benefactors.
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Agreed with this, and your posts in this thread.
Ubik said:
I think they'll fold before the next election, with another party popping up (and probably failing).
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I don't see it sadly. The moderate Labour MPs are surely incentivised to just sit still and wait until the next election/ they enter government from here, as they realise that they'll only lose out if they were to branch out and start their own party.

And if a new movement/ cross party 'centrist' group wasn't created after Brexit/ Corbyn/ May then I don't see what would cause that to happen from here. We're too close to the conclusion of Brexit for any difference to be made there, and there aren't any popular centrist politicians with the force of personality to bring such a group together.

No idea what happens with the Lib Dems though. Feels like they're circling the drain at the moment.
 
Hell of a thing to have to apologise for. There's always been a soft anti-Semitism from the militant left that bleeds from the inability to distinguish between Judaism and Israel. Politicians like Galloway often titillates his own supporters by deliberately blurring the lines, stopping short of outright anti-Semitism but a wink and a nudge, fanning the flames. I don't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic but I think maybe those around him, and a decent share of his hardcore base, aren't that bothered by it.

Still with the third apology on the subject of anti-Semitism in a week, the usual cheerleaders will be insisting there's nothing to see here.
 
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Oscie said:
Hell of a thing to have to apologise for. There's always been a soft anti-Semitism from the militant left that bleeds from the inability to distinguish between Judaism and Israel. Politicians like Galloway often titillates his own supporters by deliberately blurring the lines, stopping short of outright anti-Semitism but a wink and a nudge, fanning the flames. I don't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic but I think maybe those around him, and a decent share of his hardcore base, aren't that bothered by it.

Still with the third apology on the subject of anti-Semitism in a week, the usual cheerleaders will be insisting there's nothing to see here.
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Except there isn't anything to see. Hard line Zionists take any criticism of the Israeli State as 'anti-Semitism' and have said as much. 99% of the supposed anti-semitism in the Labour party has been merely criticism of Israel's human rights record. Criticism of Israel's war crimes is not anti semitism, it's demanding justice for the down trodden.
 
Jippy said:
As an aside, anyone aware of the new anti-Brexit centrist party, Renew?
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I had no idea they were a thing. Seems kinda pointless though. Probably better off just joining the Lib Dems.
 
Jippy said:
LibDems pointless after 2010. A real third way centrist party has it's appeal tbf.
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Probably, although when you consider that the Lib Dems still have certain strongholds in the country constituency-wise (where they're at least relevant if not elected) and that they've still got lots of local councillors, I wonder if for centrists trying to rebrand that party might work better than forming a new one. Ultimately it's incredibly difficult for new parties to gain traction right away - the Lib Dems were basically an evolution of their old equivalent, UKIP took decades to achieve any relevance and even then only ever really got one or two MPs and about 12% of the vote, the Greens remain largely irrelevant, and the SNP were around for generations until they became Scotland's most dominant party. Renew seem to have a fairly anti-Brexit platform...but by the time they've achieved any relevance I suspect Brexit will have been fully implemented.
 
Cheesy said:
Probably, although when you consider that the Lib Dems still have certain strongholds in the country constituency-wise (where they're at least relevant if not elected) and that they've still got lots of local councillors, I wonder if for centrists trying to rebrand that party might work better than forming a new one. Ultimately it's incredibly difficult for new parties to gain traction right away - the Lib Dems were basically an evolution of their old equivalent, UKIP took decades to achieve any relevance and even then only ever really got one or two MPs and about 12% of the vote, the Greens remain largely irrelevant, and the SNP were around for generations until they became Scotland's most dominant party. Renew seem to have a fairly anti-Brexit platform...but by the time they've achieved any relevance I suspect Brexit will have been fully implemented.
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Quite possibly. I guess I just feel in that disenfranchised middle ground as the two main parties have drifted further left or right.

I highly doubt they'll be the next En Marche, but might be interesting to speak to them. No idea if they have a broader policy set beyond second Brexit referendum and more housing tbh.
 
Yeah, strange to say it but there is a gap in the market for a David Milliband, Clegg/Cameron, Neo-con 'centrist' party. One that isn't fronted by an aging Vince Cable.
 
altodevil86 said:
Yeah, strange to say it but there is a gap in the market for a David Milliband, Clegg/Cameron, Neo-con 'centrist' party. One that isn't fronted by an aging Vince Cable.
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:lol:
That is what 2018 British politics is lacking, a man who is complicit in torture and already been deemed less electable than Ed Miliband. What a vote winner.
 
altodevil86 said:
Yeah, strange to say it but there is a gap in the market for a David Milliband, Clegg/Cameron, Neo-con 'centrist' party. One that isn't fronted by an aging Vince Cable.
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It's not strange at all, you're dead right, there is a huge centre-left gap in the available alternatives. Vince it will have to be, I suppose.
 
Dobba said:
:lol:
That is what 2018 British politics is lacking, a man who is complicit in torture and already been deemed less electable than Ed Miliband. What a vote winner.
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First part aside, that was only really decided by the trade unions. I like Ed more, but to say he's more electable than David is laughable.
 
Dobba said:
So David is more electable, right up until he has to get people to vote for him?
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What are you on about? Labour party members voted for him by far the most in the Labour leadership election. Like I said, it was merely UNITE etc. loving Ed which made him "unelectable". The trade unions hated David Cameron - does that mean he was unelectable? (No)
 
altodevil86 said:
What are you on about? Labour party members voted for him by far the most in the Labour leadership election. Like I said, it was merely UNITE etc. loving Ed which made him "unelectable". The trade unions hated David Cameron - does that mean he was unelectable? (No)
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Often the problem in Labour party leadership elections - membership want one thing, special interest wants another. Until they've been out of power nigh-on 20 years then the unions think maybe it might be an idea to pick someone electable. We're at least one leader removed from that though so the Tories have nothing to fear.
 
David Miliband's just really bland anyway though, irrespective of any complications surrounding the 2010 leadership contest. There's probably a place for centrism somewhere in UK politics, but Miliband's just one of those really bland, non-descript figures Labour would've maybe went for at one point in order to try and directly replicate Blair.
 
'Tucker Carlson will save you from Shifty and Shouty!'
 
Thornberry herself is not easy to like often comes across as smug and enjoys the yah/boo a bit too much but get her talking more in depth is actually very good
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
Except there isn't anything to see. Hard line Zionists take any criticism of the Israeli State as 'anti-Semitism' and have said as much. 99% of the supposed anti-semitism in the Labour party has been merely criticism of Israel's human rights record. Criticism of Israel's war crimes is not anti semitism, it's demanding justice for the down trodden.
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I dunno man. That Jewish protest march didn’t look very hard line Zionist to me.

“Why did I protest against Corbyn? Look at his long list of evasions” https://www.theguardian.com/comment...evasions-labour-antisemitism?CMP=share_btn_tw
 
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There isn't a problem with antisemitism within the Labour party because non-Jewish Corbyn supporters insist so. It's how we know racism doesn't exist because Tommy Robinson denies being a racist. That's how these things work. We also know people can distinguish between Jews and Israel by the way the minute someone wants to talk about antisemitism they'll respond by mentioning the word 'Zionism' within the first few seconds.

People who are not part of a minority who says they've experienced prejudice have dismissed their claims and told them that they're wrong. We're all fine with that now. I mean, what do Jews know about antisemitism anyway, am I right?
 
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Corbyn isn't antisemitic, although he has opposed Israeli war crimes for a few decades. To some there isn't a difference.
 
Amazing how the feeling of Jewish people on the issue of anti-semitism is completely brushed aside for no other reason than it being politically inconvenient for people to acknowledge it.

You have members of the Jewish community and leaders of the Jewish community taking issue with what they see as a tolerance of anti semitic sentiment in the Labour party and it's being completely dismissed because people are getting protective over their politician pin-up. It's quite extraordinary really.

Do that with any other group. Heterosexuals insisting homosexuals are wrong if they perceive homophobia, white people lecturing black people on whether they're entitled to believe they've been subject to racism. Men going to a women's rally and telling them that if they think they've seen misogyny then they're mistaken.

Because it's the Jews and hating them is considered kind of okay by many on the left, combined with the fact Corbyn supporters think they can get away with anything has led us to where we are on this issue today. Denied even the right to identify when they believe they've encountered antisemitism. What a time to be alive.
 
Oscie said:
Amazing how the feeling of Jewish people on the issue of anti-semitism is completely brushed aside for no other reason than it being politically inconvenient for people to acknowledge it.

You have members of the Jewish community and leaders of the Jewish community taking issue with what they see as a tolerance of anti semitic sentiment in the Labour party and it's being completely dismissed because people are getting protective over their politician pin-up. It's quite extraordinary really.

Do that with any other group. Heterosexuals insisting homosexuals are wrong if they perceive homophobia, white people lecturing black people on whether they're entitled to believe they've been subject to racism. Men going to a women's rally and telling them that if they think they've seen misogyny then they're mistaken.

Because it's the Jews and hating them is considered kind of okay by many on the left, combined with the fact Corbyn supporters think they can get away with anything has led us to where we are on this issue today. Denied even the right to identify when they believe they've encountered antisemitism. What a time to be alive.
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Honestly mate, you post some awful awful shite on here.
 
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The eyesight problems seem to be spreading.

 
If the word 'clear' didn't exist, she'd be mute.
 
Multi-year funding deal is so they can ask the NHS for what it needs over multiple years and lock them to that even if circumstance and need in later years dictate more money is needed and for the duration defend not providing it by saying "We have given the NHS everything they asked for".
 
Oscie said:
Multi-year funding deal is so they can ask the NHS for what it needs over multiple years and lock them to that even if circumstance and need in later years dictate more money is needed and for the duration defend not providing it by saying "We have given the NHS everything they asked for".
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Yes, I think it's dangerous, so too the NHS tax. They can start attacking the tax for being too high
 
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