Martial has got to remain at United | No, he hasn't been unfollowing United players on Instagram

RedorDead21 said:
They are not unrealistic. He's the most gifted young player we've had for a long time and if he doesn't hit those heights consistently he's benched. Pogba is in the same boat in that respect. If they don't react in the right way they will be out of the picture....its a perfectly ok situation.....and as to the reason why they might not get the same slack as others....they both might not put the same effort in or listen to the manager's instructions or god knows what....
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Martial was put in those situation where he was tested and reacted the right way. He started the season as a sub for Rashford and fought his way to the first team. Made himself a regular starter and was delivering the goods.

Though soon after the acquisition of Sanchez he easily got shunted then dropped. In fact he was coming off his hottest form since coming at United before seeing that it doesn't matter what he does he'd easily get dropped for any other player the manager prefers. It wasn't about earning places anymore.

Honestly he just isn't lucky with Mourinho, that's all. It's not about attitude, talent etc. He's certainly shown that he has the attitude to face up to the challenge at hand which he did this season but unfortunately it wasn't enough for his manager to easily drop him at the first chance.

He's simply unlucky. It is what it is.
 
Santoryo said:
Martial was put in those situation where he was tested and reacted the right way. He started the season as a sub for Rashford and fought his way to the first team. Made himself a regular starter and was delivering the goods.

Though soon after the acquisition of Sanchez he easily got shunted then dropped. In fact he was coming off his hottest form since coming at United before seeing that it doesn't matter what he does he'd easily get dropped for any other player the manager prefers. It wasn't about earning places anymore.

Honestly he just isn't lucky with Mourinho, that's all. It's not about attitude, talent etc. He's certainly shown that he has the attitude to face up to the challenge at hand which he did this season but unfortunately it wasn't enough for his manager to easily drop him at the first chance.

He's simply unlucky. It is what it is.
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Fact is we have no idea what it is but Mou wants to win matches that I'm sure is a fact. If he's not choosing him and we all think he should be....there's a bloody reason whatever it is. People were calling for Shaw and saying him putting Young straight in was unfair..then the next time we see Shaw he's turned into James Corden....people have to just trust one of the best winning machine managers of his generation and leave it at that.
 
JPRouve said:
The comparison with Robben and Mané isn't exactly fair, you are talking about a striker, not a left winger. Martial has been developed as a striker for the entirety of his youth career when we bought him he didn't had a all lot of games on the left either and it wasn't as a winger. It's a bit like Juventus trying to use Henry as a wingback.

Edit: Also Robben isn't equally good on both sides, there is a fair drop when he is on the left.
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But unlike Henry Martial has proven very effective from the left... why not the right?

Not an important point but wasn't Robben pretty damn good on the left for Real Madrid and PSV?
 
Man, I wish we would just play 1 game with 2 strikers. Whether it's 4-4-2, or whatever. We have 4 players (arguably) that will happily play as a striker, and yet we have 3 playing on the wings.

Even just for the shock factor, it'd be worth it. Mou trolling all the fans.
 
wolvored said:
You cant compare other leagues to the premier. He started off at Arsenal on the right but was soon moved to the left or centre left as he plays a lot better from there. If you had a choice Sanchez L Martial R is much stronger (on paper at the moment) than Martial L Sanchez R. Martial is very inconsistent and hasnt improved in 2 years really and I know its taking Sanchez a bit of time to settle in, but next season you will see a big difference.
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Do you really think if he can cut it at Barca as a RW he cant do it in the PL? The stats show that he was very productive wherever he played, be it centre, LW and RW. Martial on the left is a no-brainer for me. Otherwise, dont play him at all
 
Why is everyone so sure Martial can't be on the right anyway? Half the caf were saying he shouldn't be on the left until Sanchez happened.
It's not his cutting in works that often. We've barely seen him on the right.
 
Escobar said:
Do you really think if he can cut it at Barca as a RW he cant do it in the PL? The stats show that he was very productive wherever he played, be it centre, LW and RW. Martial on the left is a no-brainer for me. Otherwise, dont play him at all
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Yes he was that good on the RW at Barca he had a very long career there... Obviously not. You are right saying Martial is better on the left than on the right, but Sanchez is the better player on the left so unless Martial adapts he wont be here for long. As I said he hasnt improved in 2 seasons and I can see either this summer, or maybe the summer after he will be sold. I also think Mourinho will buy a left footed RW this summer as well.
 
endless_wheelies said:
But unlike Henry Martial has proven very effective from the left... why not the right?

Not an important point but wasn't Robben pretty damn good on the left for Real Madrid and PSV?
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Henry was better than Martial on the left, that's not even close. And Robben is a winger, he has been developed as a winger at a young age, he learned and developed his skills around that role before even joining professional football, also for Real, iirc, he mainly played on the right and that's where he better performed. It's hard enough for true wingers to be equally good on both wings and it's going to be even harder for someone that is learning to just be a winger. Now the reason why players aren't necessarily good on both sides is due to their baggage of skills and experience in that role, just an example when Martial plays on the left and cuts inside, he generally ends up on the wrong foot of the defender and knows how to anticipate the potential tackle from the right foot, if you play on the left it's the opposite, when you come inside you are generally on the stronger foot of the defenders and their tackling angles will be different, your skills and angles require to be different too. Then with Martial there is the general problem that he doesn't move like a winger, he doesn't have the same agility, the same ability to change direction while sprinting, he isn't as fast with the ball than most wingers and despite what a part of the caf thinks he is a great dribbler, he dribbles like a good striker and that's it. Martial is just very good at scoring goals.
 
wolvored said:
Yes he was that good on the RW at Barca he had a very long career there... Obviously not. You are right saying Martial is better on the left than on the right, but Sanchez is the better player on the left so unless Martial adapts he wont be here for long. As I said he hasnt improved in 2 seasons and I can see either this summer, or maybe the summer after he will be sold. I also think Mourinho will buy a left footed RW this summer as well.
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Sanchez has yet to prove that he is better on the left than what Martial has shown for us. So I don't see your point.
 
Santoryo said:
Sanchez has yet to prove that he is better on the left than what Martial has shown for us. So I don't see your point.
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Sanchez is better, the way he always look for killer pass, linking up with teammate , tracking back and his movement are better than Martial. Martial always try to either one-two or taking on full back one on one, the problem is when opponent double him up , he runs out of idea what to do
 
It's not about age, it's not even really about consistency. It's a question of effort under Mourinho, he wants to see attacking players tracking back and helping out the defense, providing cover etc. He's looked for this at every club he's been at. Unfortunately Martial spends a lot of time not putting in much defensive effort. He just seems so disinterested sometimes it drives me mad.
 
Santoryo said:
Sanchez has yet to prove that he is better on the left than what Martial has shown for us. So I don't see your point.
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Talking at Premiership level, he proved it at Arsenal and once he has had a pre season he will prove it here, maybe even kick on this season.
 
wolvored said:
Yes he was that good on the RW at Barca he had a very long career there... Obviously not. You are right saying Martial is better on the left than on the right, but Sanchez is the better player on the left so unless Martial adapts he wont be here for long. As I said he hasnt improved in 2 seasons and I can see either this summer, or maybe the summer after he will be sold. I also think Mourinho will buy a left footed RW this summer as well.
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So you're saying he has not proved himself? It's about balance in the team and it is clear that he could do well on the right with Martial also in his best position
 
Escobar said:
So you're saying he has not proved himself? It's about balance in the team and it is clear that he could do well on the right with Martial also in his best position
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Yes he can play right, but just like Martial he is better on the left and is a proven better player. I dont know what will happen to Martial, he might even be sold on. What I do know is Mourinho is going to play Sanchez from the left as first choice.
 
JPRouve said:
Henry was better than Martial on the left, that's not even close. And Robben is a winger, he has been developed as a winger at a young age, he learned and developed his skills around that role before even joining professional football, also for Real, iirc, he mainly played on the right and that's where he better performed. It's hard enough for true wingers to be equally good on both wings and it's going to be even harder for someone that is learning to just be a winger. Now the reason why players aren't necessarily good on both sides is due to their baggage of skills and experience in that role, just an example when Martial plays on the left and cuts inside, he generally ends up on the wrong foot of the defender and knows how to anticipate the potential tackle from the right foot, if you play on the left it's the opposite, when you come inside you are generally on the stronger foot of the defenders and their tackling angles will be different, your skills and angles require to be different too. Then with Martial there is the general problem that he doesn't move like a winger, he doesn't have the same agility, the same ability to change direction while sprinting, he isn't as fast with the ball than most wingers and despite what a part of the caf thinks he is a great dribbler, he dribbles like a good striker and that's it. Martial is just very good at scoring goals.
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Mmm not sure about that, wikipedia says Robben cemented a place on the left of Real's midfield and he's always said he was forced out in 2009 because Ronaldo came in to take his position. For sure against Liverpool he played on the left. And did Martial ever really have to learn the left-wing position? As you say he'd never really played there for Monaco, but was our best outfield player in his debut season playing left-wing like a duck to water.

The thing you're missing is he doesn't need to play right-wing like an orthodox winger, he just needs to use his pace and positional awareness to get himself or a teammate into goalscoring positions, and the fact that he'd be on his stronger foot going round the outside would add variety to his game as he'd be counterbalancing that with his natural desire to cut inside. Think about how Sterling plays right-wing, it's all about penetrating runs, positioning to pick up goals, decision-making, his average position in a game is actually quite narrow and all these things play to Martial's strengths.
 
endless_wheelies said:
Mmm not sure about that, wikipedia says Robben cemented a place on the left of Real's midfield and he's always said he was forced out in 2009 because Ronaldo came in to take his position. For sure against Liverpool he played on the left. And did Martial ever really have to learn the left-wing position? As you say he'd never really played there for Monaco, but was our best outfield player in his debut season playing left-wing like a duck to water.

The thing you're missing is he doesn't need to play right-wing like an orthodox winger, he just needs to use his pace and positional awareness to get himself or a teammate into goalscoring positions, and the fact that he'd be on his stronger foot going round the outside would add variety to his game as he'd be counterbalancing that with his natural desire to cut inside. Think about how Sterling plays right-wing, it's all about penetrating runs, positioning to pick up goals, decision-making, his average position in a game is actually quite narrow and all these things play to Martial's strengths.
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And that's where the problem comes from. You described the exact reason why it's very difficult for a player to move from one role, one area to an other. All of the things you mentioned can only be developed with experience in a position, when you use Robben as an example, you have to remember that Robben spent his entire youth career in those situations and learned how to deal with them, he developed a skill set in accordance to these, he developed an experience, that's partially what we loosely call awareness or decision making. That's why while it's never impossible for a player to develop in a completely different role, we have to remember that not every players are as versatile as each others, they don't have the same capabilities to learn, some need time others don't, some need a particular approach others are fine with the generic but they will all have to learn and they can all potential fail to reach the required level in a new role.

Players aren't robots, they have limitations, you wouldn't expect Sterling or Robben to become competent strikers without giving them a lot of time and support.
 
JPRouve said:
And that's where the problem comes from. You described the exact reason why it's very difficult for a player to move from one role, one area to an other. All of the things you mentioned can only be developed with experience in a position, when you use Robben as an example, you have to remember that Robben spent his entire youth career in those situations and learned how to deal with them, he developed a skill set in accordance to these, he developed an experience, that's partially what we loosely call awareness or decision making. That's why while it's never impossible for a player to develop in a completely different role, we have to remember that not every players are as versatile as each others, they don't have the same capabilities to learn, some need time others don't, some need a particular approach others are fine with the generic but they will all have to learn and they can all potential fail to reach the required level in a new role.

Players aren't robots, they have limitations, you wouldn't expect Sterling or Robben to become competent strikers without giving them a lot of time and support.
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Sterling plays up front for Manchester City sometimes to decent effect, also played there for Liverpool on occasion, it's not like the qualities required for the positions are mutually exclusive. Ronaldo switches between the positions well enough. Your argument seems to say that Martial is someone who has shown impressive versatility and learning to adapt to the left-wing role, therefore he won't be able to learn the right-wing role. I'm not seeing the link.
 
endless_wheelies said:
Sterling plays up front for Manchester City sometimes to decent effect, also played there for Liverpool on occasion, it's not like the qualities required for the positions are mutually exclusive. Ronaldo switches between the positions well enough. Your argument seems to say that Martial is someone who has shown impressive versatility and learning to adapt to the left-wing role, therefore he won't be able to learn the right-wing role. I'm not seeing the link.
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I don't think that I'm telling you that at all but maybe I'm doing a really bad job. Martial isn't great on the left and he has never been, he is great at scoring goals and that's pretty much it, he hasn't learned the left-wing role and he isn't even close to the players you mentioned(Henry, Robben and Sterling) which is why putting him on the right, doesn't fill me with a great deal of confidence in the short term and not a lot more in the longer term.

And the player that you added is also a player that has been developed as a winger since youth football. Surely you are seeing a trend.
 
JPRouve said:
I don't think that I'm telling you that at all but maybe I'm doing a really bad job. Martial isn't great on the left and he has never been, he is great at scoring goals and that's pretty much it, he hasn't learned the left-wing role and he isn't even close to the players you mentioned(Henry, Robben and Sterling) which is why putting him on the right, doesn't fill me with a great deal of confidence in the short term and not a lot more in the longer term.

And the player that you added is also a player that has been developed as a winger since youth football. Surely you are seeing a trend.
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And Ashley Young? Eto'o? Born and bred strikers can be very effective wingers also.

Disagree he's nowhere near Sterling's level, also disagree he's no good on the left; maybe he doesn't play it in an orthodox manner but nor would he have to on the right. Guess time will tell.
 
I will be surprised if Martial extends his contract which ends in 2019
 
I think United should play Martial, Sanchez & Rashford in a fluid front three.

All interchanging, causing opposition defences nightmares with their movement, pace and general threat.

Lukaku is a great goal scorer. But the problem with having him in the team, is he doesn't really compliment the rest of the attack. He's not the most mobile compared to the others. He doesn't want to play one / two's and hurt teams that way really.

At Everton they were all set up for Lukaku to thrive and as a result no one else did. At United I think it is similar, he's scoring but are the others thriving because of him? Again not really.

He's not going to make an unselfish run wide, leaving space for a Rashford or Martial to exploit, like Sanchez would if played central.

Lukaku is a fine player & he'll continue to score many goals. But at the expense of others and the team IMO. That's not to say the other three will never score goals. Of course they can. But I think all the other three would thrive more without Lukaku.

Martial's holding up of the ball is underrated too, if used centrally, same goes for Sanchez.
 
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JK-27 said:
It's not about age, it's not even really about consistency. It's a question of effort under Mourinho, he wants to see attacking players tracking back and helping out the defense, providing cover etc. He's looked for this at every club he's been at. Unfortunately Martial spends a lot of time not putting in much defensive effort. He just seems so disinterested sometimes it drives me mad.
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This is false. Martial does track back
 
Watch him put Martial on for second half then blame him for United not winning.
 
Klippity said:
I think United should play Martial, Sanchez & Rashford in a fluid front three.

All interchanging, causing opposition defences nightmares with their movement, pace and general threat.

Lukaku is a great goal scorer. But the problem with having him in the team, is he doesn't really compliment the rest of the attack. He's not the most mobile compared to the others. He doesn't want to play one / two's and hurt teams that way really.

At Everton they were all set up for Lukaku to thrive and as a result no one else did. At United I think it is similar, he's scoring but are the others thriving because of him? Again not really.

He's not going to make an unselfish run wide, leaving space for a Rashford or Martial to exploit, like Sanchez would if played central.

Lukaku is a fine player & he'll continue to score many goals. But at the expense of others and the team IMO. That's not to say the other three will never score goals. Of course they can. But I think all the other three would thrive more without Lukaku.

Martial's holding up of the ball is underrated too, if used centrally, same goes for Sanchez.
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Lukaku is far more mobile and good at making unselfish runs wide than Martial is though? He's a very team oriented attacker at United. If anything what you've said applies to Martial not Lukaku.
 
Akshay said:
Lukaku is far more mobile and good at making unselfish runs wide than Martial is though? He's a very team oriented attacker at United. If anything what you've said applies to Martial not Lukaku.
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Maybe.

But I wouldn't have Martial necessarily as the central man. I'd probably have Sanchez doing it and then Martial & Rashford can attack the space which his incredible movement & work rate can create.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
Watch him put Martial on for second half then blame him for United not winning.
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More likely that Rashford will be on either around the 60 minute mark or halftime and Martial will go on for the last 10-15 minutes. Whatever happens, Mourinho won't blame him for us not winning this game. Ridiculous to suggest that.
kaiser1 said:
I will be surprised if Martial extends his contract which ends in 2019
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There's an option of a further year on it (can be activated by the club). We're supposed to be trying to extend his contract but that has gone quiet over the past month.
 
I think he will stay and I hope he does but if we do sell him then you have to trust Mourinho. He has the potential to be world class but he's got a bit of a way to go yet and is still inconsistent.
 
There are 3 players in the actual squad that prefer the left flank: Sanchez, Martial and Rashford. It will be very difficult to give them all enough minutes to keep them happy.

Ok, there are enough competitions and everyone will have it's share of playtime but i think that problem is the "importance" of this minutes. It's one thing to gain this minutes against top 6 sides or in CL QF/SF and it's one thing to gain them against Cardiff CIty, for example. It's safe to assume that Jose will prefer Sanchez on the left side in important matches while Martial will be played on the right or he will substitute Sanchez for the last 10-15 minutes or he will not be played at all.

It's clear that on the right he is not as efficient as he is on the left and playing as a CF is out of the question since Jose seems to keep Lukaku on the pitch no matter what. I wouldn't be surprised if the wants to leave considering all of the above.
 
Acole9 said:
I think he will stay and I hope he does but if we do sell him then you have to trust Mourinho. He has the potential to be world class but he's got a bit of a way to go yet and is still inconsistent.
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I'm not 100% sure he will stay at all, in fact should he recieve an offer to play elsewhere he may very well be tempted. Since the arrival of Sanchez, Jose's treatment of Martial has been quite frankly poor, you couldn't blame the lad for feeling slightly aggrieved regarding his situation.

I hope he stays and fights it out though, he is clearly an immensely talented footballer who will eventually reach world class level.
 
I love him, I really do but it's criminal to not play Sanchez as a main player at the moment. He'll only become better and showed it today.

The solution for Mourinho is to stop the Rashford experiment on the left, make him a direct sub for Lukaku and Martial direct sub for Sanchez. Sanchez won't be here for ever, while Martial is younger. He has to benefit from this period by learning how to become as direct as Sanchez.
 
Not even made it off the bench the last couple of games and to be honest we don't really miss him. Can't see him playing much until the end of the season either - maybe the Bournemouth game if we're resting people for Spurs. Probably better to part ways and bring in a right winger.
 
Sanchez is getting better every game, he showed his class today.

Lingard is simply better, more consistent and deserves his place.

Backing them up we have a peak Mata and a wonderful young talent in Rashford.

Martial has wonderful flashes of brilliance but lots of inconsistencies and I think it will be he that’s the one who ultimately makes way.

I would like to see him stay, but today’s game is much more of a short term plan for players and managers.
 
Damien said:
Not even made it off the bench the last couple of games and to be honest we don't really miss him. Can't see him playing much until the end of the season either - maybe the Bournemouth game if we're resting people for Spurs. Probably better to part ways and bring in a right winger.
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Hope not, he's a class act. He has potential to be a worldie.
 
Damien said:
Not even made it off the bench the last couple of games and to be honest we don't really miss him. Can't see him playing much until the end of the season either - maybe the Bournemouth game if we're resting people for Spurs. Probably better to part ways and bring in a right winger.
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I think you’ve called it right nice and early on this one. He’s a talented lad but he’s not the right player for us right now and we’re not the right club for him.

When you see the effort the lads put in today, he just doesn’t fit in. He’s the definition of a luxury player, so much quality but just not got the graft. I realise some people think that’s a demand exclusive to Mourinho but there’s not many top players who get away with contributing so little and they all earn it elsewhere.
 
Damien said:
Not even made it off the bench the last couple of games and to be honest we don't really miss him. Can't see him playing much until the end of the season either - maybe the Bournemouth game if we're resting people for Spurs. Probably better to part ways and bring in a right winger.
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Pexbo said:
I think you’ve called it right nice and early on this one. He’s a talented lad but he’s not the right player for us right now and we’re not the right club for him.

When you see the effort the lads put in today, he just doesn’t fit in. He’s the definition of a luxury player, so much quality but just not got the graft. I realise some people think that’s a demand exclusive to Mourinho but there’s not many top players who get away with contributing so little and they all earn it elsewhere.
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Difficult to argue with these assessments.

You do get the sense that if Martial plans to progress his career further, a move to another club is the only way. One where first team football is assured and more accepting of his dynamic yet inconsistent style of play. Sad really, you just know that he will eventually hit the heights expected of him and we will end up buying him back for silly money ala Pogba.
 
Sanchez isn't a spring chicken and Martial is much better on the left than Rashford, it would be such a shame to lose him, but I think we will, I just hope it's not so we can buy someone like Bale or Willian.
 
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