Martial has got to remain at United | No, he hasn't been unfollowing United players on Instagram

[Grylte]

I'm new to the sport, explain to me why Martial and Rashford can't play at other positions. I understand and believe their natural positions are more forward/attacking roles. Seems like you'd want your best athletes on the pitch and I feel like they could be serviceable in other spots. Or does it just simply not work like that?

One easy answer to this, is that they are right footed, they like to cut in from the left, and shoot.
Doing that from the right side, is much harder, and is generally better when you have a player with a better left foot.
Back in the days, you wanted your wingers to go to the line, and make a cross into the box, aimed at a tall striker.
When i grew up, you always wanted the left footed players on the left, and right footed on the right, to make a cross, Giggs on left, Beckham on the right.
Had Giggs and Beckham been 18 now, and just came into the squad, i think Giggs would be a RW and Becks more of a deeplying playmaker. (ish)

I do think, though, that Mourinho should play both Martial and Rashford a bit more as striker. Lukaku needs to rest sometimes, and it would give us other options with quicker and more technical players as striker.

 

[Akshay]

If we let him get rid of Martial, or any other first-team player who's grown frustrated with his negative tactics, it's a massive mistake.

So letting Mkhi go was a mistake? He's expressed much that kind of sentiment since leaving United.

 

[He'lmurderyah15]

It's in his best interest to leave, no point being a potential superstar attacker and playing for Jose. I mean, half the post's discrediting him in this thread are about his tracking back...when was the last time anyone saw Ronaldo track someone back? or Messi, Salah, Neymar etc? Clubs that are serious about playing great football tend to use midfielders to negate the 2 v 1 outwide. Our football really is archaic if we have a wide forward/striker and we're more concerned about his tracking back than anything else.

Salah does track back.. Messi and Ronaldo have scored 50 goals a season for the last 10 years, don't put Martial in the same sentence as them! Throw in the fact that they're approaching mid 30's it makes sense for them to reserve energy to score goals .. Martial is 22, what's his excuse?????.. Go back to 07,08,09.. Park Fletcher Rooney Valencia.. All animals without the ball, Martial literally stands and looks at the opposition playing, he hasn't a clue when or how to play without the ball

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Mate you were warned for bad language, what, a week ago?

No I didn't, I got warned for insulting another member in saying that I was delighted after the semi final as a United fan, "rather than a **massive fanny** who seems to care more about a half arsed but talented 22 year old."

**warned words**

The mod in question agreed with my point in principal, but thought it was a personal insult, it wasn't, it was a dig at all of those so called United fans that couldn't even manage to enjoy a great semi final weekend for even a few days.
RedCafé is a weird place these days though, in that my post was deemed warning-worthy by @Varun yet calling the United manager a "cnut" isn't. Go figure.

 

[ivaldo]

Of course but come on. His quote is fairly clear. He said it was better not to have Salah back. There was no pressure on him to go that far. You didn't answer my other question also. Do you think Jose wanted to keep him? Was he sold against his will? I think that's highly unlikely

I think he wanted to keep him but couldnt guarantee a starting berth with the likes of Willian performing at a higher level at the time. The club wanted to raise some money so they made the decision to offload a player who had yet made a serious claim to being a star player. How unlikely is that?

 

[Varun]

No I didn't, I got warned for insulting another member in saying that I was delighted after the semi final as a United fan, "rather than a **massive fanny** who seems to care more about a half arsed but talented 22 year old."

**warned words**

The mod in question agreed with my point in principal, but thought it was a personal insult, it wasn't, it was a dig at all of those so called United fans that couldn't even manage to enjoy a great semi final weekend for even a few days.
RedCafé is a weird place these days though, in that my post was deemed warning-worthy by @Varun yet calling the United manager a "cnut" isn't. Go figure.

Don't mistake my polite tone in a PM with any sort of agreement about using such words. We don't want posters here calling each other fannies, be it directly or in general. Those are the rules. If you aren't happy abiding by them or feel the modding here isn't up to your standards, please feel free to find a forum more to your liking.

Also, if you find a post inappropriate, report it and mods will deal with it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Don't mistake my polite tone in a PM with any sort of agreement about using such words. We don't want posters here calling each other fannies, be it directly or in general. Those are the rules. If you aren't happy abiding by them or feel the modding here isn't up to your standards, please feel free to find a forum more to your liking.

Also, if you find a post inappropriate, report it and mods will deal with it.

You misunderstand me, I said you agreed with the point that fans should be happy about a cracking result in a semi final rather than focusing on one player. You obviously didn’t agree with me saying fans were being fannies for acting like that, else you wouldn’t have dished out the warning.

 

[ti vu]

K. So things are going in circle, let's try something else:

Mourinho is to leave after WC with a NT come calling. Martial stays but doesn't extend the contract. 1. He has good season, but eventually leave using his contract situation to pressure the club. 2. He has the same problem with the new manager. a. Leave but fulfill his talent elsewhere. b. Never fulfill his talent. Of all this we have no success (doing worse than even what we're doing under Mourinho) as a club. What do you think with all this scenario? Do you support the club because it's your club or because a player, the manager (more like turning on the club for some people)...?

 

[#07]

An incredible number of people in this thread seem to have forgotten that Mourinho managed Cristiano Ronaldo. In fact Cristiano Ronaldo scored 60 goals in 2011/12 in Mourinho's title winning team, which remains a season's best total for the artist formerly known as CR7.

As for Martial, he'll go on to be a top class player wherever he is. However, if the manager chooses to let him leave that's his call. Jose isn't the only manager who has sold a player who went on to be amazing elsewhere. It happens. No need for a meltdown.

 

[SteveW]

I think he wanted to keep him but couldnt guarantee a starting berth with the likes of Willian performing at a higher level at the time. The club wanted to raise some money so they made the decision to offload a player who had yet made a serious claim to being a star player. How unlikely is that?

Jose knew he was a decent player. But I don't think he knew how good he was going to be and I certainly don't think he had the motivation to try to develop him as a player. So he was happy to let him go without any sort of a fight. Jose wants the finished article. It's his strength and also his weakness. It means he wins but he also costs his club incredibly talented players through his lack of patience and vision.

A great manager to spend a long time at a club needs to have an element of excitement when it comes to developing potential. Fergie saw the teenage Rooney and Ronaldo as opportunities to develop something special that would serve the club for years, I generally feel like Jose would have seen them as liabilities who's inconsistency was ruining his chance of winning trophies.

 

[ivaldo]

Jose knew he was a decent player. But I don't think he knew how good he was going to be and I certainly don't think he had the motivation to try to develop him as a player. So he was happy to let him go without any sort of a fight. Jose wants the finished article. It's his strength and also his weakness. It means he wins but he also costs his club incredibly talented players through his lack of patience and vision.

A great manager to spend a long time at a club needs to have an element of excitement when it comes to developing potential. Fergie saw the teenage Rooney and Ronaldo as opportunities to develop something special that would serve the club for years, I generally feel like Jose would have seen them as liabilities who's inconsistency was ruining his chance of winning trophies.

To be fair who did? No one expected him to reach the level he's at now. If they did, he wouldn't have ended up going to Roma for a relatively modest free.

And again, who has the opportunity to develop players at the top clubs in England? Tell me which of the managers at the top 6 have fulfilled this criteria. Somewhat ironically, the only manager to really give minutes to graduates this year is Jose.

Chelsea wanted Cuadrado and they needed cash and space in the squad to get him. They decided to offer a swap for Salah with the view to a permanent move - for a player Jose played just 13 times. He may not have thought Salah was going to be a superstar, but that doesn't mean he wanted the player to leave, which is what has been stated here.

 

[Bestietom]

Martial is not going to stay around if he is not getting enough playing time.

 

[GM K]

The modern day top attacker who does not work hard at tracking back and defending is a myth. You only need to study carefully, the very best in the business to realize this.

 

[ghagua]

It’s very difficult to build teams around young players while at the same time producing trophies and getting top 4 consistently. Its like if Chelsea had held on to Salah, Lukaku & KDB, Chelsea would have won less silverware, and perhaps also the 3 players would not have been able to develop.

We're not winning the league title or the champions league any time soon. We're back to hoping for cup wins like the 80's. Would rather build a team to challenge for the bigger titles even if it takes 3-4 years playing good attacking football.

 

[ghagua]

Yeah, I'm gutted about these cup finals and year on year improvement. Don't know what to do with myself to be honest. Guess I'll just be over here supporting Manchester United while you're supporting Martial, the boy that can do no wrong and deserves to be the first name on the team sheet if it wasn't for Jose's bias.

Was trying to explain to you in simple terms. If it was someone with a little bit more intelligence, I would have explained differently, if it was someone with normal intelligence, I would not need to explain at all. See, not everyone can can be treated the same. Different people need to be handled differently.

 

[SwansonsTache]

Won't fulfill his potential at United, but when he does somewhere else we'll look like mugs.

 

[SteveW]

To be fair who did? No one expected him to reach the level he's at now. If they did, he wouldn't have ended up going to Roma for a relatively modest free.

And again, who has the opportunity to develop players at the top clubs in England? Tell me which of the managers at the top 6 have fulfilled this criteria. Somewhat ironically, the only manager to really give minutes to graduates this year is Jose.

Chelsea wanted Cuadrado and they needed cash and space in the squad to get him. They decided to offer a swap for Salah with the view to a permanent move - for a player Jose played just 13 times. He may not have thought Salah was going to be a superstar, but that doesn't mean he wanted the player to leave, which is what has been stated here.

Are you being a bit obtuse here? He may have been happy to keep the player in a hypothetical situation where you can keep infinite players. Perhaps there was some disappointment in letting him go. However the reality is he didn't deem him good enough to be in his squad of maybe 25 players and clearly saw Cuadrado as a bigger asset. That seems like madness now but in fact just fits into an established pattern of Jose not having patience or foresight when it comes to potentially elite young talents

 

[Sing you a song]

Martial is not going to stay around if he is not getting enough playing time.

He's not going to get much more playing time until he performs well in more than 1 game out of 3.
He als needs to show a bit of interest and enthusiasm rather than looking so miserable when he is on the pitch.
If he is sold he only has himself to blame

 

[ivaldo]

Are you being a bit obtuse here? He may have been happy to keep the player in a hypothetical situation where you can keep infinite players. Perhaps there was some disappointment in letting him go. However the reality is he didn't deem him good enough to be in his squad of maybe 25 players and clearly saw Cuadrado as a bigger asset. That seems like madness now but in fact just fits into an established pattern of Jose not having patience or foresight when it comes to potentially elite young talents

Are you? It's very well established that at Chelsea the manager does not have full control over transfers, but you want to attribute that decision entirely to Jose.

You seem to have entirely disregarded my first two paragraphs. Care to offer a response to them?

 

[wolvored]

People say give him time to develop, but his best season was the first. Since then no improvement on his overall game. We bought Anderson under Fergie, who gave players time and he never got better than his first season, similarly Nani who was hit and miss like Martial. We bought Forlan who didnt really develop here, left and became a superstar elsewhere. It may happen to Martial, but unfortunately wont happen here.

 

[SteveW]

[QUO

Are you? It's very well established that at Chelsea the manager does not have full control over transfers, but you want to attribute that decision entirely to Jose.

You seem to have entirely disregarded my first two paragraphs. Care to offer a response to them?

Perhaps when you stop purposely missing the point of my posts. I've already agreed the board have a say in transfers at Chelsea. It's not a bottomless pit of money. Managers don't have complete control. He still would have been able to keep the player if he didn't see him as expendable. Jose said he was 5th choice. If he told the board that he needed Salah and was going to use him, he would have stayed. Fact is he wasn't going to use him because he didn't think he was that good. Don't see why this is hard to accept for you.

I'm getting flash backs of you being like this back when I said Daley Blind wasn't good enough to be a long term solution at CB for us. Really combative and not taking my points on board. In your eyes he was terrific and anyone who couldn't see that was biased or a fool.

 

[ivaldo]

[QUO


Perhaps when you stop purposely missing the point of my posts. I've already agreed the board have a say in transfers at Chelsea. It's not a bottomless pit of money. Managers don't have complete control. He still would have been able to keep the player if he didn't see him as expendable. Jose said he was 5th choice. If he told the board that he needed Salah and was going to use him, he would have stayed. Fact is he wasn't going to use him because he didn't think he was that good. Don't see why this is hard to accept for you.

I'm getting flash backs of you being like this back when I said Daley Blind wasn't good enough to be a long term solution at CB for us. Really combative and not taking my points on board. In your eyes he was terrific and anyone who couldn't see that was biased or a fool.

Here we go again. Someone not agreeing with your post? Using readily available evidence to back it up? They must not be reading what you write! Looking forward to when the agenda card gets used.


No because, as I've repeated several times now, he wasnt good enough at the time, otherwise he would have had a place in the first XI. That doesn't equate to Jose thinking he was never going to be good enough, or that he wanted hom to be sold, which was the original point! The board made the decision to move him on because he wasn't yet an established first teamer, opposed to the likes of Willian and Hazard, to make place to for Cuadrado, who I am skeptical of Jose ever wanting. Not hard to comprehend, is it.

Better check those flashbacks. I valued - and still do - Blind as a squad player, and maintained he was our best CB that season (which was was). I get pissy when people start to shit on our players or use ridiculous hyperbole

I would have no problems with us going into next season with these two as first choice centrebacks. We definitely need to add some quality in depth and if we can find an upgrade to Blind he'll still play a vital part in this squad.

So still not going to reply to those paragraphs?

Edit: We are derailing the thread now. If you want to continue the discussion let's move it to one of the relevant threads.

 

[Toni's Left Foot]

If Martial hasn't the mentality to knuckle down and fight for his place he can't go quick enough as far as I am concerned if the price is right. That sulky infantile attitude has no place here.

I happen to think this is a lot of press speculation though and he will be here next season.

 

[GM K]

He is lying.

http://chelseaseason.com/2015/07/mu...t-john-stones-filipe-luis-and-salah/12031/amp

July 2015

Mourinho in 2021 after Martial is having a Ballon D'Or worthy season for Juventus: "Oh no, I really didn't want to get rid of Martial. I did everything to keep him. It was the board's decision, you know."

Not necessarily so, even by merely comparing the statements.

 

[GM K]

I suspect Martial is desperate to leave. The rumours have been persistent since last season and his body language indicates so at times. Recent unconfirmed reports are saying Juventus have opened talks with his agent.
It will be sad losing such a talent but his departure might end up being the best thing to happen to United in a while. We just need to bring in a better or at the very least, a player at par with Anthony but who fits in better into Jose's squad and the team will improve drastically in an attacking sense. Jose often trades good players well. Zlatan for Etoo. Ashley Cole for William Gallas. Sanchez for Miki, etc. Let's hope this is one. Wouldn't mind having Dybala or Sandro here

 

[Cassidy]

I'm thinking this should be the most appropriate thread to drop this here:

http://global.espn.com/football/che...or-selling-mohamed-salah-in-2016-i-bought-him

A bit of a sensationalist title, but basically saying it wasn't his decision to sell Salah.

But no Jose, the Caf has already decided you're an inept manager, and many on here would love to provide to you expert knowledge on nurturing young talents, despite your impressive trophy haul.

Hes lying

 

[Zoo]

Andy Mitten says that the club expects Martial to stay.

 

[RedRonaldo]

He is lying.

http://chelseaseason.com/2015/07/mu...t-john-stones-filipe-luis-and-salah/12031/amp

July 2015

Mourinho in 2021 after Martial is having a Ballon D'Or worthy season for Juventus: "Oh no, I really didn't want to get rid of Martial. I did everything to keep him. It was the board's decision, you know."

Really disappointed with Jose. Almost thought recently it wasn't entirely his decision to sell, but there's no more excuse now, he definitely wants Salah out at that time.

 

[Smores]

Really disappointed with Jose. Almost thought recently it wasn't entirely his decision to sell, but there's no more excuse now, he definitely wants Salah out at that time.

Salah had already gone out on loan (at Salah's request) with an option to buy at this time hadn't he? Not sure why the above poster thinks those quotes mean he's lying, he probably already had one foot out the door at that point.

Not really sure why its been brought into the Martial thread though as the situations are just not comparable. At that point Salah had shown nothing where as Martial is established.

If Januzaj suddenly turned world class in a few years are you lot going to put it on Jose too?

 

[breakout67]

Salah had already gone out on loan (at Salah's request) with an option to buy at this time hadn't he? Not sure why the above poster thinks those quotes mean he's lying, he probably already had one foot out the door at that point.

Not really sure why its been brought into the Martial thread though as the situations are just not comparable. At that point Salah had shown nothing where as Martial is established.

If Januzaj suddenly turned world class in a few years are you lot going to put it on Jose too?

Yep, all these comparisons to KdB and Salah are well of the mark. Selling Martial outright with no replacement will be a massive loss and far worse. He is an important member of the squad.

As far as I'm concerned, either we keep Martial and develop him into a top player, or we sell him and buy a top player like Dybala or Griezmann to replace him.

 

[Damien]

Salah had already gone out on loan (at Salah's request) with an option to buy at this time hadn't he? Not sure why the above poster thinks those quotes mean he's lying, he probably already had one foot out the door at that point.

Not really sure why its been brought into the Martial thread though as the situations are just not comparable. At that point Salah had shown nothing where as Martial is established.

If Januzaj suddenly turned world class in a few years are you lot going to put it on Jose too?

No. He went out on loan with the option to buy two/three weeks later.

 

[Adisa]

Yep, all these comparisons to KdB and Salah are well of the mark. Selling Martial outright with no replacement will be a massive loss and far worse. He is an important member of the squad.

As far as I'm concerned, either we keep Martial and develop him into a top player, or we sell him and buy a top player like Dybala or Griezmann to replace him.

This. If be fecking fuming if we sell him and don't replace him with a player of similar talents.
He's in double digits for goals and assists without starring many games. You need to replace that output. Especially as we aren't a free scoring team either.

 

[breakout67]

This. If be Dec fuming if we sell him and don't replace him with a player of similar talents.
He's in double digits for goals and assists without starring many games. You need to replace that output. Especially as we aren't a free scoring team either.

I'm very critical of Martial but that is because of his huge potential. You can't get rid of that quality of player from your team and expect to be the same.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

This thread has gone on far too long without any concrete evidence of Martial about to leave.
The media make up mountains of false stories relating to United, anything to get clicks.
The truth is, we needed someone with a pull us up by the bootstraps mentality when we needed to fight for a result. Sanchez has shown that he is and can be that player to turn a loss into a win.
Martial, as talented as he is, doesn’t have that fighting spirit. Hope he can develop it, but some players never do.

 

[crossy1686]

Was trying to explain to you in simple terms. If it was someone with a little bit more intelligence, I would have explained differently, if it was someone with normal intelligence, I would not need to explain at all. See, not everyone can can be treated the same. Different people need to be handled differently.

Makes me laugh when people stoop to insults because they don't possess the eloquence to discuss a well argued point.

You still haven't come up with a decent counter point yet. Jose brought in some competition to allow Martial to push himself and develop, he has failed to do that and decided to sulk instead. If he had already been at Sanchez's level, we would have never even considered bringing Sanchez in. He has one year remaining on his contract as June 2019, which means if we don't sell this summer, we'll have to sell for a reduced price next summer or risk losing him on a free.

Your contributions to this thread have been largely uninspiring but don't let me stop you from spouting nonsense, please do continue.

 

[dabeast]

Because Pogba seems at home in a 4-3-3. If Martial/Rashford could play on the right, that could work. Both of them should see it as an important skill set to play on the right, CR7 played there before moving to the left wing at Real.

 

[Kevin]

Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea will be eyeing him. Came on without having played much lately, in a drab match with few chances he creates two: one which should have been put away by Smalling and one amazing cross for Fellaini who heads it onto the post from 2 yards out. Sanchez ran alot, what a tigerman. Hero.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Excellent cameo, more of that and he’ll force Sanchez onto the right more often.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Sign him up on a long contract already

 

[Peanut Butter]

Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea will be eyeing him. Came on without having played much lately, in a drab match with few chances he creates two: one which should have been put away by Smalling and one amazing cross for Fellaini who heads it onto the post from 2 yards out. Sanchez ran alot, what a tigerman. Hero.

It’s ok to like both Sanchez and Martial you know?