Is the World Cup still the pinnacle of the game?

BusbyMalone

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https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...f-holland-germany-jonathan-liew-a8389451.html

Was reading this article by Jonathan Leiw about the World Cup in which he posed the question “Is the World Cup still the pinnacle of the game?”

Personally i don’t think it is. Obviously back in the day it undoubtedly was, but i just think football has moved on dramatically since then.

Obviously it’s all subjective and i have a strong bias in that i've never been a fan of International football anyway. I hate the International breaks whether it be for friendless or qualifiers - i just see them as a hindrance. And while the World Cup undoubtedly has a sense of drama, from a footballing perspective i just don’t think it stands up to the high standards of the Champions League, or club football in general. I will watch it, of course, as i’m a fan of football and it is still a huge event, but the thought of Russia vs Saudi Arabia to kick the tournament off doesn’t exactly fill me with excitement and anticipation.

Obviously i’m cherry picking a particularly shite fixture here (on paper anyway), and there will be plenty of better fixtures with better teams involved, but you get the point. The fact that there will be many games of this ilk is just so underwhelming.


Anyway, i could probably bleat on for ages about my apathy towards it but what's the consensus here?

Still the pinnacle or not so much?
 
Nah the CL is better quality. Barcelona and Real Madrid have assembled better teams than any on the international stage.
 
These days, the best national teams are insanely good in terms of player material. There is no club with a squad as good as France‘s or Brazil‘s.
 
It's by far the most prestigious event in the sport, in any sport really.

You'll see better teams in the CL though quite easily. The ability to train together every day and buy in specific talent sees to that.
 
International football has been poor for ages so personally, I don't think so. Without much time to train, teams will normally play very conservatively, leading to a lot of boring matches.
 
Yeah the world cup is still better than the CL. I'd actually say in the uk at least the decision to move away from itv has lowered the stature of the CL. I have far less interest in it now.
 
It's probably not the pinnacle in terms of standard overall (though a France, Spanish, German, Brazilian or Belgium squad with a good manager would win the PL... maybe the CL too)... but is in terms of winning something, I don't think anything compares.... it's definitely the most prestigious, probably because any player only has around 4 chances of winning it in their career.

I mean, just look at the way teams celebrate goals in the group stages of the World Cup... you rarely see that kind of raw emotion/joy in CL group stages...
 
BusbyMalone said:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...f-holland-germany-jonathan-liew-a8389451.html

Was reading this article by Jonathan Leiw about the World Cup in which he posed the question “Is the World Cup still the pinnacle of the game?”

Personally i don’t think it is. Obviously back in the day it undoubtedly was, but i just think football has moved on dramatically since then.

Obviously it’s all subjective and i have a strong bias in that i've never been a fan of International football anyway. I hate the International breaks whether it be for friendless or qualifiers - i just see them as a hindrance. And while the World Cup undoubtedly has a sense of drama, from a footballing perspective i just don’t think it stands up to the high standards of the Champions League, or club football in general. I will watch it, of course, as i’m a fan of football and it is still a huge event, but the thought of Russia vs Saudi Arabia to kick the tournament off doesn’t exactly fill me with excitement and anticipation.

Obviously i’m cherry picking a particularly shite fixture here (on paper anyway), and there will be plenty of better fixtures with better teams involved, but you get the point. The fact that there will be many games of this ilk is just so underwhelming.


Anyway, i could probably bleat on for ages about my apathy towards it but what's the consensus here?

Still the pinnacle or not so much?
Click to expand...

Still.

Cl final gets boring and you do get drab matches frequently. Having cl every year kinda diminished the game.

Give me germany vs england at semi final, or even croatia vs panama can be quite entertaining for neutrals

Ps every game matters at world cup, you cant risk not being top of your game. Cl has its own dead rubber match or genk vs madrid.
 
It depends on which country you are from.

Tend to find that English fans hate international football for some reason.


But generally it still is. As good as the UCL is, its repetitive and is basically the sole domain of a few clubs. But the world cup comes down every 4 years and is harder to win. It also adds to its folklore that it's never really had a shock winner either.
 
The quality in club football is better, as teams work together the whole year. But WC is still the most important tournament in football. It's the biggest dream of every footballer to win it.
 
Don Alfredo said:
These days, the best national teams are insanely good in terms of player material. There is no club with a squad as good as France‘s or Brazil‘s.
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Beg to differ on this. The best clubs have teams and individuals that are far superior to any international teams. That’s the thing. Teams as well as individuals. They’re able to buy the very best fit for each position without constraints. Then they train together and are like well-oiled machines. This holds for clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona etc al.

The WC has stature deriving from prestige (playing in the national colours), chances of winning (low frequency so each player has a limited number of shots) and, well, marketing.

Overall, I’d say the standard of play is far higher in the later stages of the CL than in the World Cup. Think about it. Barca could - if Griezmann moves - have Griezmann, Messi and Suarez leading the line with Denbele as backup. Coutinho behind them. Don’t see which National Team betters this.

Real have Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Isco, Asensio and Vazquez vying for 3 spots and then have Modric, Kroos and Casemiro behind them with Kovacic for backup. Mental to think any National Team can rival this.
 
midnightmare said:
Beg to differ on this. The best clubs have teams and individuals that are far superior to any international teams. That’s the thing. Teams as well as individuals. They’re able to buy the very best fit for each position without constraints. Then they train together and are like well-oiled machines. This holds for clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona etc al.

The WC has stature deriving from prestige (playing in the national colours), chances of winning (low frequency so each player has a limited number of shots) and, well, marketing.

Overall, I’d say the standard of play is far higher in the later stages of the CL than in the World Cup. Think about it. Barca could - if Griezmann moves - have Griezmann, Messi and Suarez leading the line with Denbele as backup. Coutinho behind them. Don’t see which National Team betters this.

Real have Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Isco, Asensio and Vazquez vying for 3 spots and then have Modric, Kroos and Casemiro behind them with Kovacic for backup. Mental to think any National Team can rival this.
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Argentina's would.

Messi, Aguero, Icardi, Dybala, Higuain... woof.

Yeah club football obviously has the edge, as the top clubs can pick and choose... but your Frances, Germany's, Belgium's etc of the world really aren't far off.

If they could train together every week and operate like a club team, they'd be making it far in the CL easily.
 
Yes. It's pinnacle of the game without any doubt,
 
Sky1981 said:
Still.

Cl final gets boring and you do get drab matches frequently. Having cl every year kinda diminished the game.

Give me germany vs england at semi final, or even croatia vs panama can be quite entertaining for neutrals

Ps every game matters at world cup, you cant risk not being top of your game. Cl has its own dead rubber match or genk vs madrid.
Click to expand...

That's why i still think the World Cup is an event. It happens every 4 years and it has a sense of drama about it. But i think that's a different argument really. The football itself isn't the pinnacle imo.
 
Standard of play at club level is higher because they train together all year, National teams hardly get 10 continuous training sessions but when it comes to buzz and excitement, nothing beats world cup (except 2010)
 
The gap between international events makes them special. Prior to the CL there isn't the general excitement and chatter there has been amongst friends and colleagues there has been the last few weeks. Admittedly the last few WCs haven't had the same level for me but this one has brought back feelings of 90 and 94 (and 96). Same for the Lions rugby tours.

We'll get a lot of dross over the next few weeks, the odd thriller and some team we would never have expected knocking out a top team, or maybe not, but that's what makes it so special.
 
roonster09 said:
Standard of play at club level is higher because they train together all year, National teams hardly get 10 continuous training sessions but when it comes to buzz and excitement, nothing beats world cup (except 2010)
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Probably my feelings towards it really.
 
Depends what you mean by pinnacle. In terms of global reach, absolutely. No football competition demands so much attention/draws such an audience.

In terms of the atmosphere it creates, it generally has the highest potential to demonstrate the best football has to offer.

I think most players who win the tournament consider it the greatest achievement of their career, so from that point of view - yes - it is the pinnacle.

The only area where it probably isn't is overall footballing quality, you can certainly find better in the CL than at the World Cup. But, in terms of it being a spectacle, that's not always a bad thing.
 
Having the same teams qualify every year for the CL made it boring. Playing unknown teams was the fun of the CL, in contrast to leagues where the fun was the rivalry.

But that's a different topic.
 
Without a doubt, for quite a few reasons.
First, it's the most prestigious and most widely watched sports event in the world, with literal billions of fans following it. It might sound cliché, but I find a lot of magic in the fact these games are watched all around the globe. I also think there are very little football players who would rather win any other competition.
Then, apart from the fact it only takes place every four years so naturally it is more exciting (and also more random, as you really need to be lucky to hit your best form for the WC, or unlucky if you're injured) than the Champions League, with the modern football leaning more and more towards oligarchs game, I love the World Cup and Euros for the fact that national teams do not work like Man City or PSG, and you really need to make the best use of players available. So many beautiful stories like Iceland '16 but also Croatia '98 spring to my mind.
Also, I love it for the fact there are so many games played in such a short period of time, and you can end up watching good or at least interesting football every day (or few times a day) for a month. Although the football quality of Russia - Saudi Arabia game might be similar to some Genk - Salzburg CL tie, I still find much more pleasure in watching national teams, especially as I know I would never follow these teams if it wasn't for the tournament. And every World Cup has a story of player who has a fantastic couple of weeks and becomes a superstar just like that - look at James in '14, I find it fantastic and only wonder who will surprise and impress us this year.
And yes, Real, Barca and Bayern are probably even more star-studded than Brazil, France or Germany, but it doesn't really make me watch them with the same passion. Maybe because I've seen them (with very similar line ups) so many times lately.
Only drawbacks are politicized tournaments, I'm not the biggest fan of Russia hosting it this year and Qatar will be even worse.

But I have to say, if United were to feature in most of CL semi-finals and were top3 European team each year, I would probably love Champions League as much as I love World Cup :lol::lol::lol:
 
AndyJ1985 said:
Nah the CL is better quality. Barcelona and Real Madrid have assembled better teams than any on the international stage.
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It’s a close call between watching Qarabağ FK in the Champions League or Panama in the World Cup.
 
Ultimately, you just can't compete with the stakes of the World Cup.

You get knocked out in the group stages of the CL? Well that was shit, and better do better next year. Get knocked out in the Semi's? Close, we'll get to the final next year... Lose the final? Absolutely gutting, but maybe we can go all the way next year etc.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Ultimately, you just can't compete with the stakes of the World Cup.

You get knocked out in the group stages of the CL? Well that was shit, and better do better next year. Get knocked out in the Semi's? Close, we'll get to the final next year... Lose the final? Absolutely gutting, but maybe we can go all the way next year etc.
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Exactly. Also players will get 2 chances to win the cup, 3 if they are lucky, 4 if they are once in a generation/lifetime player who had very big career.
 
CL is beginning to get overrated. Some of the football on show this past was entertaining but pretty low on quality.
 
It probably is to be fair, in terms of spectacle.

CL final may seem like the biggest deal but I'd guess more people watch the WC final and if it's your country in the final, I imagine it means slightly more than your club winning the CL.
 
Sort of. I think most people recognise that the CL and the various top leagues are generally better for judging players on a day-to-day basis, and I certainly don't think there's this ridiculous notion anymore that players have to win the World Cup or at least perform in it to be considered as proper greats, because they get so much domestic exposure now anyway, but I'd still say the spectacle and scale of the World Cup dwarfs all other competitions. There are a lot of non-football fans/casual fans who'll watch World Cup games...solely because it's the World Cup. The fact it's only every four years still gives it that something special as well when it does come around. Not quite sure there's a buzz at all similar in regards to football as that you get when a WC is on. Everywhere you go football just sort of seems to take over.

Although I do think the general consensus as to this often seems to change between tournaments. If there's been an especially poor one people will say it's lost its prestige, that club football is better etc. If we get a memorable tournament opposite perspectives like the ones echoed above will obviously emerge. And I wonder if the recent dominance of one individual team in the CL has resulted in people souring on that competition a tad, even though the quality is obviously still very strong.
 
The CL will always gather the best teams and the best players, while the WC will miss out on many stars because their NT is too weak.

I enjoy watching both, but prefer the CL.
 
nah, for me it's champions league. one may find it boring because it's always the same 2 or 3 clubs competing for it, but the overall quality is just higher.

obviously, world cup is played every four year so year with world cup soon after the champions league final will always be more interesting than the regular football year. the same would happen with champions league, if we were stuck with all those dreadfull international games all the time and champions league was being played every four year.

so for me, CL > everything else
 
It's the most prestigious and still probably the most meaningful medal a footballer can get. It is also a proper football carnival, nothing compares to its reach and that feeling of a special event. In terms of quality though, obviously the CL and top European leagues are more consistent in that regard nowadays.
 
The CL has higher quality, the WC has the most prestige.

There was a time when the World Cup was the only event where you could see all the best players in the World facing each other, but that's not the case for years since all quality athletes play for the same handful of clubs instead of being spread around the globe.

The best NT were probably stronger than the top clubs teams until the 80s, now that's clearly not the case anymore.
 
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The World Cup is really special - Champions League might have higher quality teams within it but it doesn't come close to the magic of the World Cup imo - that is where legends are made.
 
I hold two passports.
Both are shite at football.
CL any time of the day.
 
Yeah it still is. As an event nothing else matches it. You don't get screens being put up in major cities, constant news updates, and people skiving off work in their thousands to watch a CL group game.

I also had a skewed view of International football until I went to a tournament game at the Euros in France. The atmosphere even in and around the host cities, let alone at the game, is incomparable to a club fixture, and there's no way that and the attention it garners from each nation doesn't get through to the players.

I think the biggest threat is how diluted it will get when they increase the number of teams again. It becomes less special after you reach a point where the actual finals are basically the qualifiers.
 
The World Cup is the pinnacle. Club football can assemble a world class team but winning as a nation will always mean more as you can never buy your way to success
 
It's the biggest sporting event in the world, so yes it's still the pinnacle of football. I think Ronaldo would trade 4 CL's for a WC medal.
 
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