Is the World Cup still the pinnacle of the game?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yes it is, it's the most difficult trophy to win and only happens every 4 years, majority of players would rather win a WC than a CL.
It's the biggest event by a million miles.
I find the Champions League to only be of interest to me when United are playing or when it gets to the quarter finals. There is occasionally a pretty good group fixture if big teams are lumped together, but I wouldn't go out of my way to watch it.
The World Cup, however, I will watch as much of it as I possibly can. I think that stems from it being only once every four years. It adds a real excitement, getting to see players and teams you don't normally get to see.
The quality and cohesion of play is higher in the CL, as teams train together and play together much more regularly, but I prefer the World Cup format. 3 group games, single leg knockouts, no away goals means an increased chance of penalty shootouts. It's just a much more fun spectacle, and the margin for error is so slim, you have to aim to win every game, which isn't the case in the Champions League.
The dynamic of international football is somewhat purer than club football. The pool of players you have is all you have, there is no buying and selling. The world's best players may only play in 2 or 3 World Cups, which is such a short window of opportunity for them to make an impression. A powerful footballing nation can become weak in the space of a decade, and vice versa. Big clubs pretty much always remain big clubs, which makes it a little more predictable. I don't really give a stuff about England, but as an overall spectacle form start to finish, the World Cup beats all.
The World Cup, however, I will watch as much of it as I possibly can. I think that stems from it being only once every four years. It adds a real excitement, getting to see players and teams you don't normally get to see.
The quality and cohesion of play is higher in the CL, as teams train together and play together much more regularly, but I prefer the World Cup format. 3 group games, single leg knockouts, no away goals means an increased chance of penalty shootouts. It's just a much more fun spectacle, and the margin for error is so slim, you have to aim to win every game, which isn't the case in the Champions League.
The dynamic of international football is somewhat purer than club football. The pool of players you have is all you have, there is no buying and selling. The world's best players may only play in 2 or 3 World Cups, which is such a short window of opportunity for them to make an impression. A powerful footballing nation can become weak in the space of a decade, and vice versa. Big clubs pretty much always remain big clubs, which makes it a little more predictable. I don't really give a stuff about England, but as an overall spectacle form start to finish, the World Cup beats all.
By a million miles.
In terms of a spectacle it's still the biggest, I don't know about quality, personally think the CL trumps it.
Also the WC takes place over the summer where there is feck all football on offer for months otherwise and the football bug is biting, CL takes place all through the season where fans have tons of games in 3-4 different competitions to watch, let alone if they follow other european leagues on top, so obviously spoilt for choice in comparrison.
Also the WC takes place over the summer where there is feck all football on offer for months otherwise and the football bug is biting, CL takes place all through the season where fans have tons of games in 3-4 different competitions to watch, let alone if they follow other european leagues on top, so obviously spoilt for choice in comparrison.
I'd be over the moon. But still, think I'd get more joy from Utd winning the CL.
Yes/ no/ maybe!
In a world cup year it's the biggest, but you get 4 CL for every world cup so it's a lot to compete with.
A world cup can still raise the profile of a player better than any other stage so in that sense it must count for something.
That said with so much more TV coverage and money in football, arguably the world cup counts for less than it ever has done before
In a world cup year it's the biggest, but you get 4 CL for every world cup so it's a lot to compete with.
A world cup can still raise the profile of a player better than any other stage so in that sense it must count for something.
That said with so much more TV coverage and money in football, arguably the world cup counts for less than it ever has done before
In short, yes.
The World Cup has been crap since 86.
World Cup is a 90% direct representation of a country's interest in the sport.
Brazil, one of the consistently best teams in the world are that because the country literally has young kids playing football out in the streets and the slums. Likewise I went to Germany on holiday & remember feeling a tad bored - feeling like there was nothing to do but I could still see there was a genuine interest in people to go out and play football.
England has an interest & advocated football but prefers watching it, eating BBQ's and drinking to this day.
The thing I'm trying to say is that the world cup to me is football in it's most natural form - a countries love, appreciation & hard work for football can be seen in the world cup.
The Champions league is more entertainment & business - and it is only getting more stronger (ethics are going out the window when people call for loaning out young players out for a secondary temporary target man because they can't build a functional team to get the best out of them). Clubs are buying success than earning success which simply cannot be done in world football.
Brazil, one of the consistently best teams in the world are that because the country literally has young kids playing football out in the streets and the slums. Likewise I went to Germany on holiday & remember feeling a tad bored - feeling like there was nothing to do but I could still see there was a genuine interest in people to go out and play football.
England has an interest & advocated football but prefers watching it, eating BBQ's and drinking to this day.
The thing I'm trying to say is that the world cup to me is football in it's most natural form - a countries love, appreciation & hard work for football can be seen in the world cup.
The Champions league is more entertainment & business - and it is only getting more stronger (ethics are going out the window when people call for loaning out young players out for a secondary temporary target man because they can't build a functional team to get the best out of them). Clubs are buying success than earning success which simply cannot be done in world football.
Good post. I agree.
There's something soulless at times about the CL despite wanting United to win it.
Yep.
I also believe the strongest country team would've beaten the strongest club team.
I also believe the strongest country team would've beaten the strongest club team.
Would you rather United/your team won the CL or England/your country won the WC?
I'd take Belgium winning the WC over Liverpool winning the CL (or any trophy for that matter).
I'd take Belgium winning the WC over Liverpool winning the CL (or any trophy for that matter).
I think it is, possibly now more than ever. You cant just buy a world cup win. Squad based purely on nationality, playing for your country. Nothing beats winning a world cup medal. Only 231 men have ever started on the winning side in a world cup final. Its a rare and unbeatable achievement
I would take England winning the WC over United winning the CL , in a heartbeat.
I have seen United win the CL twice , I was only 2 when England won the WC, too young to even remember it.
I have seen United win the CL twice , I was only 2 when England won the WC, too young to even remember it.
The World Cup is the only time that I'd ever thin about watching Saudi Arabia vs Russia...normally I'd not even watch that even if it was on in my front garden...
Yoooooouuuuu treacheroussss cunnnnnt
I think it clearly means more to the vast majority of players which sort of gives it a more pure feeling. CL football is essentially the richest teams buying the best players
Yes I mean to me watching the CL is a wonderful entertaining experience - though recently iv started to feel like it not being all too different to watching a film with who has the best director & core budget. The film finishes and the next film will be available by September.
The World Cup is not about entertainment & that's more to do about the host of the world cup whilst the football is traditionally quite pure.
Personally that's why I rate Ronaldo's performances Portugal in Euros a bit more than the 12th time he won the CL or whatever. He became a representation of Portugal's improvement as a nation at playing football - inclusive of all its other players.
The world cup transcends football, it's a global event where people not even interested in football tune in to watch.
For me its more like a festival to cheer up and have fun!
Couldn’t give a monkeys about England in the World Cup,just want all United players to have a good tournament & not come home to effigies (Beckham) hanging from the nearest lamppost.
Cheers for that
England winning the WC for most would be a once n a lifetime event, I want to see it..
World cup will always be a global event. I live in Canada and not many care about "Soccer" and especially dont give a crap about club football but world cup even they keep an eye for. World cup any day is much bigger than CL, and much more dramatic.
Great post.
It's certainly the biggest event. That combination of the immersion feeling of the tournament and the way in dominates big chunks of the news and the TV channels for a couple of weeks, across multiple countries makes it the biggest.
In terms of the pinnacle - that may be a national question. Maybe if you can see your national team winning then (as a player or a fan) it's the top. I don't see how it can be if you're not. If you're born in Wales or wherever, maybe getting there as a player is a great thing, but I can't visualise it as being quite the same as actually imaging yourself in a team that could win the CL.
I do think the CL contains better teams, and usually the better matches, but it's not a better spectacle. It's the combination of months of games versus a couple of weeks, the mass involvement and the fact that it's still on the big free broadcast channels in big chunks of the world that makes it special.
In terms of the pinnacle - that may be a national question. Maybe if you can see your national team winning then (as a player or a fan) it's the top. I don't see how it can be if you're not. If you're born in Wales or wherever, maybe getting there as a player is a great thing, but I can't visualise it as being quite the same as actually imaging yourself in a team that could win the CL.
I do think the CL contains better teams, and usually the better matches, but it's not a better spectacle. It's the combination of months of games versus a couple of weeks, the mass involvement and the fact that it's still on the big free broadcast channels in big chunks of the world that makes it special.
I do.
Reason: because we are a terrible team. If we assembled a team of superstars, such that every position had the best player in the World, we still wouldn't win.
I remember back in the mid 90s, when we had arguably the best midfield in the world (man for man, big names). We did nothing. That was the point I realised that we'd never win anything in my lifetime.
Even when we hired Capello - a serial winner - we couldn't do anything special.
It the biggest sports event in the world, and nothing will change that.
But in terms of quality, CL is the easily the best.
But in terms of quality, CL is the easily the best.
Still miles better than anything you see in international competitions. Millions of miles.
This.
Absolutely pumped for Russia vs Saudi Arabia as a neutral. Shows how big the world cup is really.
I think it isn't comparable. The CL and world cup are both the most prestigious tournaments in their spheres of influence. But yes, the world cup of any sport is the pinnacle of that sport.
I think it isn't comparable. The CL and world cup are both the most prestigious tournaments in their spheres of influence. But yes, the world cup of any sport is the pinnacle of that sport.
You know, I probably would too...
Offer me England winning this World Cup, or us winning the CL next season... and yeah i'd pick the World Cup.
I'm pretty sure I'll see United win the CL at some point in my life again, but I may never see England win the World Cup... and I'd love for it to happen in my lifetime.
Yeah, add to that is the fact that 2-3 clubs have assembled almost all the best talent in the world over the past decade almost, and the UCL haven’t really been that competitive either.
No and I don’t think is has been since 2002/2006 World Cup.
Champions League knockout is higher level of overall play than WC knockouts.
Champions League knockout is higher level of overall play than WC knockouts.
stop comparing the world cup with the champions league FFS.
It's the biggest trophy but I personally think the quality is better in the CL.
Simple fact, there's an entire pre season and season of training for all club sides and only a few weeks for international teams.
Simple fact, there's an entire pre season and season of training for all club sides and only a few weeks for international teams.
It's still the pinnacle. The viewership figures alone tell a story there. 400 million for the CL final vs well over a billion for a WC final.
For many people, their nation winning the WC would be much bigger than their club winning something. This is somewhat related to the absence of buying and selling from the national team game. Everyone who plays for it is a "local" person representing the country, rather than a mercenary brought in for the $$.
I think the awarding of the 2018 and 2022 WCs to a horrible regime and a completely unsuitable location respectively, takes some of the shine off it though. Can't shake the feeling there's less hype and anticipation around this one than most other WCs.
For many people, their nation winning the WC would be much bigger than their club winning something. This is somewhat related to the absence of buying and selling from the national team game. Everyone who plays for it is a "local" person representing the country, rather than a mercenary brought in for the $$.
I think the awarding of the 2018 and 2022 WCs to a horrible regime and a completely unsuitable location respectively, takes some of the shine off it though. Can't shake the feeling there's less hype and anticipation around this one than most other WCs.
Brazil are one of the best because they are football crazy and they have a population of 200m. Germany have a population of 83m and are a rich country with first class infrastructure which is why they are so successful.
Ryan Giggs was a top class player for a couple of decades but never appeared in a World Cup because he came from a tiny country.
It's far from the grand meritocracy you make out. In fact I would say club football is more meritocratic.
It depends on the outlook.
For some players, Champions League glory is more attractive, for others defending their nation in a World Cup is the highlight of their careers.
From a marketing and global standpoint, it is definitely more watched and talked about than the CL simply because people who never watch football will make an exception to see the World Cup ''for the pride of the nation''
For fans it basically depends on if you prefer to see the best players of a country together or players from various countries together like in club football.
For me personally, the World Cup peaked in 2006. Look at these names: Zidane, Henry, Patrick Vieira, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaká, Van Nistelrooy, Fernando Torres, Nakamura, Buffon, Totti, Pirlo, Messi, C.Ronaldo, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Schweinsteiger, Ibrahimovic. These are just the first 20 names off the top of my head who were at that tournament. Never before or after you had so many players with a big impact in their clubs, ready made superstars, I suppose before that tournament the whole world was crazy thinking about all the possibilities of the tournament. Ok, it wasn't the greatest World Cup ever in the end but in terms of names and fan level of expectation, it was the best I can remember.
For some players, Champions League glory is more attractive, for others defending their nation in a World Cup is the highlight of their careers.
From a marketing and global standpoint, it is definitely more watched and talked about than the CL simply because people who never watch football will make an exception to see the World Cup ''for the pride of the nation''
For fans it basically depends on if you prefer to see the best players of a country together or players from various countries together like in club football.
For me personally, the World Cup peaked in 2006. Look at these names: Zidane, Henry, Patrick Vieira, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaká, Van Nistelrooy, Fernando Torres, Nakamura, Buffon, Totti, Pirlo, Messi, C.Ronaldo, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Schweinsteiger, Ibrahimovic. These are just the first 20 names off the top of my head who were at that tournament. Never before or after you had so many players with a big impact in their clubs, ready made superstars, I suppose before that tournament the whole world was crazy thinking about all the possibilities of the tournament. Ok, it wasn't the greatest World Cup ever in the end but in terms of names and fan level of expectation, it was the best I can remember.