Wales' population is ten times that of Iceland, so that's a pretty poor excuse imo.
Is the World Cup still the pinnacle of the game?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Nothing gets me excited quite like the World Cup. I'll be watching Russia-Saudi Arabia on Thursday with bated breath. That's the biggest difference between this competition and others. Every match, even two of the inferior sides, pulls me in.
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What age were you in 1998? The late 90s was the last time there was such an absolute abundance of obvious talent. That WC in France had several huge names in every group.
Ronaldo
Rivaldo
Roberto Carlos
Cafú
Dunga
Denilson
Zidane
Vieira
Thuram
Desailly
Lizarazu
Deschamps
Batistuta
Ortega
Veron
Ayala
Zanetti
Suker
Prosinescki
Gascoigne
Beckham
Shearer
Salas
Zamorano
Maldini
Nesta
Del piero
Baggio brothers
Vieri
Schmeichel
Laudrup brothers
Stoichkov
Okocha
Taribo west
Chilavert
Hierro
Morientes
Raul
Stam
De boer brothers
Seedorf
Bergkamp
Kluivert
Overmars
Davids
Kohler
Matthaus
Kahn
Savicevic
Stojkovic
Mijatovic
Mihajlovic
Valderrama
Hagi
Nakata
What age were you in 1998? The late 90s was the last time there was such an absolute abundance of obvious talent. That WC in France had several huge names in every group.
Ronaldo
Rivaldo
Roberto Carlos
Cafú
Dunga
Denilson
Zidane
Vieira
Thuram
Desailly
Lizarazu
Deschamps
Batistuta
Ortega
Veron
Ayala
Zanetti
Suker
Prosinescki
Gascoigne
Beckham
Shearer
Salas
Zamorano
Maldini
Nesta
Del piero
Baggio brothers
Vieri
Schmeichel
Laudrup brothers
Stoichkov
Okocha
Taribo west
Chilavert
Hierro
Morientes
Raul
Stam
De boer brothers
Seedorf
Bergkamp
Kluivert
Overmars
Davids
Kohler
Matthaus
Kahn
Savicevic
Stojkovic
Mijatovic
Mihajlovic
Valderrama
Hagi
Nakata
No. Especially when you have to beat teams like San Marino and Andorra to qualify for it.
Yes and everything doesn't revolve around one or two teams. Having the best players spread out across big teams and the rest is actually more healthy for the collective quality of the competition. Where the CL does win on quality is merely it being a club competition wherein the teams are together all the time.
However the world cup beats that easily by being the undeniable pinnacle of the sport.
Winning the World Cup for your country is the greatest prize you can win in Football.
I definitely think the World cup is still the pinnacle of the game (unless your English of course
).
People from all over the world that never watch football, will watch this Tournament. The prestige is so high, playing for your country still has a lot of meaning.
I really enjoy the South-American teams playing with their heart, tearing up after scoring a goal, I mean it's not gonna get any better than that.
I definitely think the World cup is still the pinnacle of the game (unless your English of course
).People from all over the world that never watch football, will watch this Tournament. The prestige is so high, playing for your country still has a lot of meaning.
I really enjoy the South-American teams playing with their heart, tearing up after scoring a goal, I mean it's not gonna get any better than that.
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Has the point of international football been lost on you?
The World Cup still carries gravitas the Champions League cannot match. Part of that is down to frequency coming around once every four years as opposed to the yearly bunfight between the same half dozen superclubs. Part of it is down to history and the longstanding appeal of the international game with many fans' most vivid early memories of the game etched around that first World Cup. And while the latter stages of the Champions League have broadly either matched or surpassed the quality of international football, part of it is still about the superclub superstar finding a way to win in a non-perfect environment, without a £50m player in every position on the park.
For me yes, the World Cup is still the pinnacle.
The CL can't compare in excitement for me.
I will be watching every single World Cup match.
I get far more excited to see Russia vs Saudi Arabia than I ever would be to see CSKA Moscow vs Al-Ahli.
The CL can't compare in excitement for me.
I will be watching every single World Cup match.
I get far more excited to see Russia vs Saudi Arabia than I ever would be to see CSKA Moscow vs Al-Ahli.
I also think the tribalism between clubs is a problem.
Most of you still can't accept players from other clubs even when they are in the England shirt. United players tend to get the worst of it too from England fans.
I do think England fans don't have it easy. But it could be much worse. You could be Scotland for example.
Nope. Griezmann is still getting asked about his transfer situation, which is pretty unprecedented (and pretty shitty)
This, really. Club football a higher standard, WC more prestigious.
This is no contest. The WC is every 4 years and involves lots of countries, and the final is likely watched more than the CL final.
It does not get more prestigious than the WC.
It does not get more prestigious than the WC.
Absolutely. Nothing really tops the emotions of a football world cup.
It isn't a poor excuse at all. Occasionally a small nation like Iceland or Northern Ireland will qualify, most of the time they will not. Success at international level correlates with population size, GDP and years playing international football.
With the vuvuzelas, 2010 was literally all buzz.
Disagree, the most important factors are accommodation, infrastructure, a good youth development system and an interest in football. Which is why small countries like the Netherlands and Belgium repeatedly make it to big tournaments with only a bit more than 10mio inhabitants. I agree this is impacted by GDP but population and size have nothing to do with it if the abovementioned criteria are fulfilled imo.
Positivity surrounding the world cup is generally high before the tournament actually begins. Once we actually get to see the quality of football being offered, it becomes obvious that club football is better.
Still, it is a prestigious tournament, but we can all see that teams play very cautiously always mindful of the result, and takes a while for the players to get going, during any match.
Matches are generally one by a margin of a maximum of 2 goals and the pattern is, both teams set up to not lose the match, and then one team somehow gets a goal, and then that team usually adds another. We don't get to see much attacking display or intricate passing, despite big names being present, unless the core of the team involves players playing for a single club, like Barcelona and Munich.
It might be different this time though. Tournaments in Europe are generally more exiting and the last WC one which genuinely held my interest was the one in Germany.
Still, it is a prestigious tournament, but we can all see that teams play very cautiously always mindful of the result, and takes a while for the players to get going, during any match.
Matches are generally one by a margin of a maximum of 2 goals and the pattern is, both teams set up to not lose the match, and then one team somehow gets a goal, and then that team usually adds another. We don't get to see much attacking display or intricate passing, despite big names being present, unless the core of the team involves players playing for a single club, like Barcelona and Munich.
It might be different this time though. Tournaments in Europe are generally more exiting and the last WC one which genuinely held my interest was the one in Germany.
Of course the size of a country & population counts but that is not the only reason - you cannot change the population of a country but you can restructure the countries own reception to football.
The recent restructuring of Belgium's footballing structure done in the 90's and results shown nearly a decade later is quite the improvement for a smaller country than most of the big guns.
Whilst Giggs came from a smaller country in Wales - he also came from a country that I would regard to have a strong interest in Rugby that dominates its interest in Football. In that point - its not Giggs's role to go win the world Cup by him self - it's his role to grow the interest of football in that country. Salah is another one - will they ever have a world's best 11? Doubt it - you could blame it on the population numbers but can also say it's due to a lack of interest or a lack of prehistoric football. Salah has improved football and its perception in Egypt & will continue to do so in the world Cup.
It's partially like someone who has a high BMI & obese - blaming his fat on being tall. You can't become shorter but you can become sleeker & sharper.
A different sport - India is consistently the best at cricket due to a combination of population & interest - has not stopped the smaller teams like Sri Lanka occasionally winning it.
You are right with regards to the population factor - but that does not automatically equate to an ability to play football such as India, China, Russia, America etc.
Yes. Several high profile players say "I'd trade my X champions leagues for a WC".
That's why Fat Ronaldo is so underrated. He carried Brazil twice to the finals, once as a 21 year old but had that convulsion, and won it without a knee basically.
That's why Fat Ronaldo is so underrated. He carried Brazil twice to the finals, once as a 21 year old but had that convulsion, and won it without a knee basically.
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The World Cup obviously. The Champions League is tacky by comparison - that stupid theme song with everyone standing... It's like a joke. And it's every year, naturally making it far less special. The best players have a good chance of winning the Champions League, but even the very best probably only get three World Cups to make their mark.
I have less interest in both competitions compared to when I was younger, but that's the case for anyone and anything - everyone remembers the past fondly. I do find it slightly sad that there's a general air of competence and organisation around every team now though.. You don't get the free flowing, "where have the defenders gone" South American teams of old, and you don't get the West African teams with goalkeepers who played like they'd never been on a pitch before! And there's rarely an unknown force now that the sport as a whole is so international..
And since the Champions League moved away from council telly I've generally lost interest anyway.
I have less interest in both competitions compared to when I was younger, but that's the case for anyone and anything - everyone remembers the past fondly. I do find it slightly sad that there's a general air of competence and organisation around every team now though.. You don't get the free flowing, "where have the defenders gone" South American teams of old, and you don't get the West African teams with goalkeepers who played like they'd never been on a pitch before! And there's rarely an unknown force now that the sport as a whole is so international..
And since the Champions League moved away from council telly I've generally lost interest anyway.
Prestige, romance, legacy - World Cup
Quality - Champions League
If players like Rooney, Zanetti, Shevchenko, Neymar (one time CL winners) were asked to trade their trophy for a World Cup, I think they’d take the trade.
Quality - Champions League
If players like Rooney, Zanetti, Shevchenko, Neymar (one time CL winners) were asked to trade their trophy for a World Cup, I think they’d take the trade.
I bet you rooted for Naija against England in that recent friendly. Assuming those are the two countries.
World Cup is an amazing spectacle yet I can’t help feeling holding it in the middle of the season in winter will take something away from 2022, and it could lose a lot of people’s interest. I know I’m already not bothered about it and it’s 4 years away- FIFA are taking a chance hosting it there.
Quality wise? Nah
Prestige wise? Sure
Nationalism is simply too strong a feeling to overcome even with the billions pumped into the CL.
And as Shamans said; you can’t buy world cup success.
Prestige wise? Sure
Nationalism is simply too strong a feeling to overcome even with the billions pumped into the CL.
And as Shamans said; you can’t buy world cup success.
Yes they are and yes, I rooted for Nigeria. Got stick at work but who cares.
If you gave any player the choice, I'd bet they'd choose to win the world cup over any other competition.
Yes they are and yes, I rooted for Nigeria. Got stick at work but who cares.
50% traitor! You should have got a half and half scarf.
Yes they are and yes, I rooted for Nigeria. Got stick at work but who cares.
The queen won't be pleased! Good for you! Im waiting for the day an African team beat England at the WC. I was disappointed when Nigeria failed to do so in 02
By far the biggest competition in world football.
The Champions League is of a far, far higher standard than the world cup. But the WC is, as duffer said above, the one that probably every player, instinctively, would say that they want to win.
Imagine Nigeria knocks England out? Can see myself walking about on the streets of Birmingham with a traditional green white green native attire and a massive grin on my face.
Don't walk alone!
It doesn't have the quality of UCL, but is is by far the most important tournament. Pretty much every player would choose to win World Cup instead of UCL, majority of fans would want to see their country win WC instead of their favourite team win UCL, and it is the only tournament which gets the interest of not only casual football fans, but also people who don't watch football outside of it.
So yeah, it is the pinnacle of football, although not necessarily the one tournament with the highest quality.
So yeah, it is the pinnacle of football, although not necessarily the one tournament with the highest quality.
Stop fetishizing the CL. It's not even close to the World Cup.
I was 3 just turned before the tournament. My first memories of a World Cup are from 2002. Unfortunately I don't have the time to watch all games from the 1998 World Cup. Thanks for letting me know though
Population sizes of World Cup winners (2018)
Brazil - 5 times - Population 208m
Germany - 4 times - Population 83m
Italy - 4 times - Population 60.6m
Argentina - 2 times - Population 43.85m
Uruguay - 2 times - Population 3.4m
Spain - Once - population 46.56m
England - Once - population - 53.01m
France - Once - population - 67m
The obvious outlier is Uruguay but as the article in the OP points out, the early World Cups were somewhat farcical
Their 1950 success in context
The most shambolic World Cup of them all – in an admittedly crowded field – was undoubtedly the 1950 tournament in Brazil. Held in a fragile post-war landscape and hit by the late withdrawals of India, France and Scotland, the 13 teams who eventually qualified – some by default – were arranged into two groups of four, one group of three and one group of two, consisting of a single game: Uruguay 8-0 Bolivia. Facilities were basic, the schedule deeply unfair, the logistics a nightmare, and most amusingly of all at one game, Switzerland and Mexico – to their mutual befuddlement – both turned up wearing red shirts.
The 1930 World Cup held in Uruguay was contested by 13 teams and Uruguay only had to play 4 games to win it whilst the team they beat in the final had to play 5.
Population size is crucial, its a fact it is one of the correlating factors of success in international football. I don't even see how the point is arguable really.
The Champions league is the best in terms of quality, but the World Cup is undoubtedly the pinnacle in terms of reputation and pretty much #1 on the list for all players. Pretty sure the vast majority would give up all of their trophies at club level for a world cup trophy, that's how big it is imo. The atmosphere during that whole month for all participating countries, no other event brings everyone together like that. Hell, what other tournament would make people excited for Russia against Saudi Arabia? Yet most are going to watch it because it's the World Cup.
On the flip side, all other international football is trash (excluding the world cup, the euros and those equivalents for people in that part of the world). Qualifiers, friendlies... nobody cares apart from the end results basically.
On the flip side, all other international football is trash (excluding the world cup, the euros and those equivalents for people in that part of the world). Qualifiers, friendlies... nobody cares apart from the end results basically.
I think if you asked Ronaldo to trade his 5 CL's for a world cup he'd take the trade tbf. You get the chance for the CL every year. World cup comes around once every 4 and you need everything to come together and loads of luck to win it. The key players for teams who win it more then once automatically go down as all time greats.
Every World Cup has huge names in it, though. This year it’s Messi Ronaldo Neymar Kroos Modric Marcelo Suarez Lewandowski Neuer Alba Ramos Pique Isco De Gea Pogba Griezmann Kane Lukaku De Bruyne Hazard and many more. And I believe in 10-20 years quite a few of them will be remembered as true legends of the game, that’s the beauty of WC