Day 15: Japan vs Poland, Senegal vs Colombia, England vs Belgium, Panama vs Tunisia

Annihilate Now! said:
I do believe Southgate when he says we'll go for it.... I also think Martinez will tell his team to lose (and he'll think he's really smart for doing so)

Which will make it quite funny when Colombia dump them out.
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It's not in England's mentality to go out to throw a game or put minimum effort and I doubt if the Belgian players, most of whom ply their trade in England will do the same.

If this world cup has proved anything,it's that football on a national level has got a lot closer;every team is capable of beating a team regarded better than themsleves
 
I really don't understand the people saying Colombia/Japan/Senegal is not done yet so why look further. No matter if we finish first or second we have to play one of those 3 teams. What argument is there for not wanting the easier side of the draw?
 
Ironically Japan vs Poland is THE match of today.

If Japan don't win Colombia cannot finish second.
 
onemanarmy said:
Expected line up for Belgium. Please England, don't hurt us too much :lol:


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Raise.

 
This is just giving Group H all the fuel they need to overperform in the second round - ditto the Swiss and Sweden.

Let's do it the hard way, Colombia, Brazil, Argies and then smash the Swiss in the final.
 
We should want to win and anything otherwise is a shit mentality.
 
Finishing 2nd is obviously the smart move.... just go for a bunch of yellow cards and draw the game and you have that without getting thumped.

Japan will probably beat Poland who are a shambles and you can tell in the Colombia game that they mentally checked out. Should be a Japan win against an unmotivated side. Colombia would obviously be the team to avoid in that group, and if Japan wins, they at best finish 2nd. Same side of the draw as Brazil.

So if you have the option of Colombia in the ro16, Brazil in the quarters, France in the semis or Japan in the ro16, sweden/swiss in the quarters, spain/Croatia in the semis.... well it's a pretty easy choice I would think. One side you're favourites in every tie apart from the semis which are still winnable, the other you are probably underdogs in every tie (with Colombia being 50/50).
 
Drawfull said:
Guardian reported it too; big mistake from Southgate if it's true in my opinion. Vardy looked horrible when he was subbed on last game, Rose had a shocker too. I don't see how underperforming players can instil confidence in the rest of the squad.
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Its giving a confidence boost to the others for getting a world cup start even if it's a dead rubber game. Right thing to do imo.
 
Zen said:
Japan lose 4pts...Sen/Col Draw...leaves Japan out.

Senegal 5pts
Colombia 4pts 2GD
Japan 4pts and GD is currenly 1 now without a loss.
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Ah my bad I thought it was decided on head to head first like Champions League :annoyed: I'm sure I've heard commentators saying the same thing.
 
bosnian_red said:
Finishing 2nd is obviously the smart move.... just go for a bunch of yellow cards and draw the game and you have that without getting thumped.

Japan will probably beat Poland who are a shambles and you can tell in the Colombia game that they mentally checked out. Should be a Japan win against an unmotivated side. Colombia would obviously be the team to avoid in that group, and if Japan wins, they at best finish 2nd. Same side of the draw as Brazil.

So if you have the option of Colombia in the ro16, Brazil in the quarters, France in the semis or Japan in the ro16, sweden/swiss in the quarters, spain/Croatia in the semis.... well it's a pretty easy choice I would think. One side you're favourites in every tie apart from the semis which are still winnable, the other you are probably underdogs in every tie (with Colombia being 50/50).
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Saudi Arabia had nothing to play for.. scored 2 goals.
Morocco had nothing to play for.. scored 2 goals.
Peru had nothing to play for.. scored 2 goals.
South Korea had nothing to play for after Sweden scored.. scored 2 goals.
Costa Rica had nothing to play for.. scored 2 goals.
Poland has nothing to play for.. ???
 
Solius said:
We should want to win and anything otherwise is a shit mentality.
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I'm so conflicted one minute I think finishing 2nd would be better but then...keep winning games and it won't matter who we play, momentum, form etc.

To be honest, everyone who is hoping we lose tonight seem to only focus on QF and forgot that we still have to beat whoever in the R16. Japan, Columbia, Senegal won't be push overs.
 
bosnian_red said:
Finishing 2nd is obviously the smart move.... just go for a bunch of yellow cards and draw the game and you have that without getting thumped.

Japan will probably beat Poland who are a shambles and you can tell in the Colombia game that they mentally checked out. Should be a Japan win against an unmotivated side. Colombia would obviously be the team to avoid in that group, and if Japan wins, they at best finish 2nd. Same side of the draw as Brazil.

So if you have the option of Colombia in the ro16, Brazil in the quarters, France in the semis or Japan in the ro16, sweden/swiss in the quarters, spain/Croatia in the semis.... well it's a pretty easy choice I would think. One side you're favourites in every tie apart from the semis which are still winnable, the other you are probably underdogs in every tie (with Colombia being 50/50).
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What could go wrong there?
 
Today if Tunisia and Panama manage a draw, and Poland get something from their game we'll end up being the only team who didn't get a single point and will be ranked 32/32. :drool: Let it happen please.
 
bosnian_red said:
Its giving a confidence boost to the others for getting a world cup start even if it's a dead rubber game. Right thing to do imo.
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I understand the reasoning, but if they continue to underperform it won't boost their confidence, either.

All this finishing first or second is unnecessary chatter. We should be giving ourselves the best chance to win the game.
 
World Game said:
Saudi Arabia had nothing to play for.. scored 2 goals.
Morocco had nothing to play for.. scored 2 goals.
Peru had nothing to play for.. scored 2 goals.
South Korea had nothing to play for after Sweden scored.. scored 2 goals.
Costa Rica had nothing to play for.. scored 2 goals.
Poland has nothing to play for.. ???
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Theres a difference.. those teams are teams who never expected much or still played pretty well but ended up losing, teams who still give their all for pride and getting any point is an achievement so they give their all for those memories. Poland this world cup have been awful, the players didnt seem motivated, and it wouldnt surprise me if there was unrest in the squad. Nowhere near the same situation as others fighting for pride. This case is closer to Egypt and how they lost to Saudi Arabia even.
 
SteveTheRed said:
I'm so conflicted one minute I think finishing 2nd would be better but then...keep winning games and it won't matter who we play, momentum, form etc.

To be honest, everyone who is hoping we lose tonight seem to only focus on QF and forgot that we still have to beat whoever in the R16. Japan, Columbia, Senegal won't be push overs.
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Even in the R16, you'll probably play Japan if you finish 2nd and Colombia if you finish 1st. Easy choice there imo, even though Japan wouldn't be pushovers themselves.
 
Drawfull said:
I understand the reasoning, but if they continue to underperform it won't boost their confidence, either.

All this finishing first or second is unnecessary chatter. We should be giving ourselves the best chance to win the game.
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The majority of people thought Rose did enough in the pre-tournament friendlies to start ahead of Young. And why you're judging Vardy on brief friendly cameos rather than his 22 gals this season I have no idea.
 
Japan 2-1 Poland
Colombia 2-1 Senegal
Panama 3-2 Tunisia
Belgium 3-1 England (Fellaini x2)
 
bosnian_red said:
:lol: true. Though there is 1 yellow card separating the 2 currently. Just annoy the ref til he gives a yellow then back off :p
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Well we'd need 2 yellows to overtake them, not taking into account the yellows they'll get today. Then those players that get yellows (hypothetically) have to avoid further yellows until the semi-finals.
 
endless_wheelies said:
The majority of people thought Rose did enough in the pre-tournament friendlies to start ahead of Young. And why you're judging Vardy on brief friendly cameos rather than his 22 gals this season I have no idea.
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Because past performance means nowt. And he was bad towards the end of the season, too. In any case, I was referring to the last match, which wasn't a friendly. He had 30 minutes and didn't get a touch.
 
Drawfull said:
Because past performance means nowt. And he was bad towards the end of the season, too. In any case, I was referring to the last match, which wasn't a friendly. He had 30 minutes and didn't get a touch.
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3 goals in 2 games vs Arsenal and Tottenham...?

And we weren't exactly going hammer and tongs in the last 30 minutes vs Panama were we?
 
bosnian_red said:
Even in the R16, you'll probably play Japan if you finish 2nd and Colombia if you finish 1st. Easy choice there imo, even though Japan wouldn't be pushovers themselves.
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You say that...but Japan beat Columbia. And Senegal still have a chance.

People need to look at England chance realistically. I said before the tournament started I would be happy if we made Quarter Finals, I still think that is the case. They will be tough games but if we win we should be celebrating, not thinking "Oh if only we lost to Belgium and then had Sweden in the QF"
 
Columbia pose the greatest threat IMO.

Yes they lost to Japan but played 87 minutes with 10 men.

Against Poland they looked very good and appear to have found form.
 
RobinLFC said:
Could easily be the other way around, we have played one decent team the last month (Portugal) and drew 0-0, otherwise we've only played some pretty poor teams.

And we're (and I think England as well) are putting out our B-side. Courtois might even be the only starter from last game. Vermaelen will get minutes, maybe even Kompany as well.
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Yellow Black & Red said:
Neither Lukaku or Kompany will play. Nor will either team care too much about the result.

As for whether it is ultimately more favourable to finish first or second, considering how Sweden and Brazil have been playing so far I don't think one can really say that Sweden (who'd be the likely QF opponent for whoever finishes second) will be an easier game than Brazil. Sweden have already progressed past Netherlands, Italy and (despite the narrow loss) Germany, so England could just be another established European team for them to add to the list. With Brazil, Coutinho can always pop up with something it's impossible to stop, but they also have a relatively soft defence and England could do well against them on set plays. Ultimately, I'm not convinced there'd be a huge difference in difficulty between the two.

Out of the possible second round fixtures, it remains to be seen based on how well or not the Group H teams play today which would likely be the most dangerous opponent, but my hunch at the moment is that between Japan, Colombia and Senegal, that England would find Senegal the trickiest.
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Reasonable posts. I just hope we're not robbed of a good game and that both sets of 'B-side' players put in a performance. Japan and Senegal would both cause problems for England but I think Colombia is the team they'd want to avoid.
 
I want both Senegal and Colombia to go through but I’m certain Colombia will beat Senegal.
 
Japan, Senegal and Colombia... one of them will be knocked out today. I'd like to see both of them making it through. I'd substitute anyone of them for Denmark.
 
SteveTheRed said:
You say that...but Japan beat Columbia. And Senegal still have a chance.

People need to look at England chance realistically. I said before the tournament started I would be happy if we made Quarter Finals, I still think that is the case. They will be tough games but if we win we should be celebrating, not thinking "Oh if only we lost to Belgium and then had Sweden in the QF"
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Oh I agree. Its a tricky situation is all I'm saying. You never go for a loss as thats incredibly dangerous for your own mentality, and you always want to do as well as you possibly can. Theres a clear benefit in finishing 2nd, but its dangerous to do those mental gymnastics at this stage in the tournament. So will be interesting to see how both teams approach it.

As for Japan beating Colombia.. obviously that red card at the start had a massive impact, along with James being out. Theres not many question in who the better side of the 2 is most of the time IMO, even though Japan have been good. Colombia is the 2nd best South American side after Brazil pretty clearly IMO.

My guess is Martinez will be more the manager who tells them to finish 2nd and southgate trying to tell them to do as well as possible and take it one at a time.
 
bosnian_red said:
Oh I agree. Its a tricky situation is all I'm saying. You never go for a loss as thats incredibly dangerous for your own mentality, and you always want to do as well as you possibly can. Theres a clear benefit in finishing 2nd, but its dangerous to do those mental gymnastics at this stage in the tournament. So will be interesting to see how both teams approach it.

As for Japan beating Colombia.. obviously that red card at the start had a massive impact, along with James being out. Theres not many question in who the better side of the 2 is most of the time IMO, even though Japan have been good. Colombia is the 2nd best South American side after Brazil pretty clearly IMO.

My guess is Martinez will be more the manager who tells them to finish 2nd and southgate trying to tell them to do as well as possible and take it one at a time.
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Agreed. He's already said he will drop half the team - hopefully it comes back to bite them on the arse and they lose in R16.
 
SteveTheRed said:
Agreed. He's already said he will drop half the team - hopefully it comes back to bite them on the arse and they lose in R16.
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It's not even on the rotating part. Both managers should rotate as you only get 1 chance to do so in the world cup if you did well in the first 2 games (Croatia, russia and France did the same). Its the attitude and tactics they go out to play the game with. They wont try to lose, but can see them going for a 0-0 and stay 2nd.
 
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